Cyprus-Forum.com

[Paphitis]

Kikapu, I am well aware of the differences of the two sides that have been recorded by the working groups. These differences will be sorted out at the direct talks between Christofias and Talat. If there were no differences there would have been no problem.

However, the real issue is that of federation. In the Greek Cypriot side there are forces that do not want federation, whatever type. BBF is their easy target and you can rest assured that even if the best of federations is offered these forces will say no. These are the nationalists among us and when some people try to tell us that they do not exist I simply lough.

I personally believe, that a true Federation is the only way to go, despite what some nationalist may think. But, if pushed came to shove, I believe a True Federation with True Democracy can be sold to the nationalist Bananiot, but one thing they are not going to be sold on, is to give up the Unitary state and form a Confederation under a disguised Federation of two sovereign states by allocating the third of the land to the TC's with limited usage for the GC's, and at the same time, limitations on freedom of movement as well as having their Human Rights and Democratic Rights violated by not being able to vote in the north, without even any guarantees that they will even get their land and properties back. To add to that, anytime in the future, the TC's can call it a day with the union, and vote to secede from it, and there goes third of the island for ever. These possibilities of what can happen, and listening to the NeoPartitionist, by not wanting a True Federation and True democracy, does make me as a TC question their motives, let alone all your Nationalist in the south in wanting to keep hold onto the Unitary state. The GC's can be sold on a genuine peace solution as I described above, but they are not going to say yes to anything that has dangers ahead. The NeoPartitionist want a settlement that puts the pieces in places, that a cessation can occur, if the desire is there. Listening to Talat, Halil, Zan and VP, all indications are, that the desires for a cessation are there.

If I may be so rude and interrupt your interesting conversation at the risk of being once again insulted by Bananiot, I would personally be in full support of the type of solution that Kikapu so eloquently describes and for the same reasons mentioned.

[halil]

Kikapu ,
your one is only dream ..........''TRUE FEDERATİON''

both sides are agreed that solution will be BBF . As bananiot pointing out for you there is a differences between both sides and working groups are taken notes of them .Hope fully 2 leaders will find kind of formulas that both sides can be satisfied at the end ther is a referandum . Both sides will give their own decisions . at the end TC and GC public will decide .

[Kikapu]

Kikapu ,
your one is only dream ..........''TRUE FEDERATİON''

both sides are agreed that solution will be BBF . As bananiot pointing out for you there is a differences between both sides and working groups are taken notes of them .Hope fully 2 leaders will find kind of formulas that both sides can be satisfied at the end ther is a referandum . Both sides will give their own decisions . at the end TC and GC public will decide .

And your dream is a ......................"LEGAL PARTITION" on land that does not belong to you.

So you see Halil, a True Federation can serve all Cypriots much better than a legal partition.

[halil]

Kikapu ,
your one is only dream ..........''TRUE FEDERATİON''

both sides are agreed that solution will be BBF . As bananiot pointing out for you there is a differences between both sides and working groups are taken notes of them .Hope fully 2 leaders will find kind of formulas that both sides can be satisfied at the end ther is a referandum . Both sides will give their own decisions . at the end TC and GC public will decide .

And your dream is a ......................"LEGAL PARTITION" on land that does not belong to you.

So you see Halil, a True Federation can serve all Cypriots much better than a legal partition.

My dream it is not partition Kikapu ,
Solution ,that both sides are working on it is BBF ....It is a federal system too . Too many federal states in the world .How they do it ? That's what they are working on it .

[Kikapu]

Kikapu ,
your one is only dream ..........''TRUE FEDERATİON''

both sides are agreed that solution will be BBF . As bananiot pointing out for you there is a differences between both sides and working groups are taken notes of them .Hope fully 2 leaders will find kind of formulas that both sides can be satisfied at the end ther is a referandum . Both sides will give their own decisions . at the end TC and GC public will decide .

And your dream is a ......................"LEGAL PARTITION" on land that does not belong to you.

So you see Halil, a True Federation can serve all Cypriots much better than a legal partition.

My dream it is not partition Kikapu ,
Solution ,that both sides are working on it is BBF ....It is a federal system too . Too many federal states in the world .How they do it ? That's what they are working on it .

So, I guess by saying you want to be your own "EFENDI" (masters), are you not referring to a partition, because in order to form another kind of Federation Halil, you will have to bring your own state into the union. So where is your state, because the the land that the "trnc" sits on, 80% belongs to the GC's. Not unless you want to put all the TC's on a piece of land that is by and large belongs exclusively to the TC's somewhere in the north, or the south for that matter, where you can atleast demand another form of Federation (Confederation). Even a True Federation as practices in the USA you would need to bring your own state to the union that you don't have, so if the GC's are willing to settle for a True Federation with True Democracy, it is much better than what you have now. By the way, the same also applies to the GC's, that they too do not have a state of their own to bring to a union. By "dissolving the unitary state", we can form a True Federation where for the individual Cypriots, it will only mean that the north is where mostly the TC's live and in the south where mostly the GC's live, but just like in a unitary state, people of all ethnicity, will be allowed to live and work where ever they want. It just so happens, for the next few generations, the north will remain mostly TC and the south mostly GC's. This way, there will not be a chance to secede from the union, because both states will fall under the central government of the "new country", but of course each state will run their own affairs as they see fit, as long as they do dot violate the Laws of the Federal Government and the Federal Constitution. Other than that, each state pretty much do as they wish based on one man one vote and laws enacted by the legislators in each state. Then each state will have representatives in the new government and so on.

[Bananiot]

This is GR's world:

Cyprus can only be LIBERATED in the same way it was enslaved…

Funnily enough there are still some Greek Cypriots too stupid to realize that all the Ottoman remnant cockroaches want is to hang on to the 1974 loot for as long as possible at the indigenous Cypriot’s expense, which is why of course the Cyprus problem will NEVER be solved via talk, but ONLY through bloodshed.

In such an event, what’s important is NOT what Turkey can militarily do to the Greek Cypriots, because after all there are some 800,000 of them so the great majority are bound to survive it, but what the National Guard of Cyprus can do to the mere 100,000 treasonous Ottoman remnants under the scorched earth policy that is expected to be implemented against the “TRNC”, for there can no longer be a “Cyprus problem” after such a sacrifice that the Greek Cypriots will have made, at the break of the next peaceful morning.

We need to clarify what REALLY constitutes the “Cyprus problem”…

It is a treasonous group of Ottomans who came to Cyprus UNINVITED to spread death & destruction, some of which got left behind here where they clearly DO NOT belong, and are unfortunately forever causing problems in our homeland.

In essence, the Ottoman remnants, who today even have the audacity to call themselves “Turkish Cypriots”, are in fact a group of TURKISH AGENTS constantly at work against the interests of Cyprus and her true people.

These dishonorable people, have done EVERYTHING in their power over the decades to Turkify Cyprus in utter disregard and disrespect of the indigenous Cypriot people’s ways that have evolved over their 10,000 year old inheritance.

THAT is our problem, and unless we are prepared to sacrifice 10, 20, 30, or even 40,000 men, for the sake of our future generations, we will NEVER liberate our rightful land handed down to us by our ancestors for millenniums.

[Bananiot]

And again

Those Cypriots that refuse to participate in a Cyprus liberation operation, and thus fight for their homeland, should immediately forfeit their properties and surrender their wives, and children, to serve the Turks because that in the end will be their only option.

If you think the Turks will ever allow you to have peace after agreeing to one of those racist and complex political arrangements you’re in for a BIG surprise. The problem has grown to such a point that war has now become the only VIABLE alternative. The billions we have wasted in the last three decades we could've purchased the best armys for hire and/or equipment the world has to offer and been free by now.

The Turks will NEVER allow you a worthwhile existence unless they are confronted militarily head on. The stick is the ONLY language the Turks understand.

[Cem]

And again

Those Cypriots that refuse to participate in a Cyprus liberation operation, and thus fight for their homeland, should immediately forfeit their properties and surrender their wives, and children, to serve the Turks because that in the end will be their only option.

If you think the Turks will ever allow you to have peace after agreeing to one of those racist and complex political arrangements you’re in for a BIG surprise. The problem has grown to such a point that war has now become the only VIABLE alternative. The billions we have wasted in the last three decades we could've purchased the best armys for hire and/or equipment the world has to offer and been free by now.

The Turks will NEVER allow you a worthwhile existence unless they are confronted militarily head on. The stick is the ONLY language the Turks understand.

One thing that I stiil don't understand, why this chap GR is so much bent on the destruction, I mean, not of TCs but GCs ????

What harm came to him from his fellow GCs ??? Why to punish them so mercilessly ??

[bill cobbett]

Kikapu, I am well aware of the differences of the two sides that have been recorded by the working groups. These differences will be sorted out at the direct talks between Christofias and Talat. If there were no differences there would have been no problem.

However, the real issue is that of federation. In the Greek Cypriot side there are forces that do not want federation, whatever type. BBF is their easy target and you can rest assured that even if the best of federations is offered these forces will say no. These are the nationalists among us and when some people try to tell us that they do not exist I simply lough.

I personally believe, that a true Federation is the only way to go, despite what some nationalist may think. But, if pushed came to shove, I believe a True Federation with True Democracy can be sold to the nationalist Bananiot, but one thing they are not going to be sold on, is to give up the Unitary state and form a Confederation under a disguised Federation of two sovereign states by allocating the third of the land to the TC's with limited usage for the GC's, and at the same time, limitations on freedom of movement as well as having their Human Rights and Democratic Rights violated by not being able to vote in the north, without even any guarantees that they will even get their land and properties back. To add to that, anytime in the future, the TC's can call it a day with the union, and vote to secede from it, and there goes third of the island for ever. These possibilities of what can happen, and listening to the NeoPartitionist, by not wanting a True Federation and True democracy, does make me as a TC question their motives, let alone all your Nationalist in the south in wanting to keep hold onto the Unitary state. The GC's can be sold on a genuine peace solution as I described above, but they are not going to say yes to anything that has dangers ahead. The NeoPartitionist want a settlement that puts the pieces in places, that a cessation can occur, if the desire is there. Listening to Talat, Halil, Zan and VP, all indications are, that the desires for a cessation are there.

If I may be so rude and interrupt your interesting conversation at the risk of being once again insulted by Bananiot, I would personally be in full support of the type of solution that Kikapu so eloquently describes and for the same reasons mentioned.

AOK with me too and hoping that any No Freedom Of Movement and As Near To Partition As Makes No Difference Divisionist BBF On Other People's Lands will be dumped by the good people of the Free Areas of The Republic with another resounding OXI.

[Kikapu]

And your point is what exactly, Bananiot.??

Shall I also give you a quote from VP when he says that "he does not want Greek to be spoken around his children in the north".

How welcoming is that for peace, Bananiot.??

Do you think all the TC's want to let you have your land back in the north just because they seem to be your friends and say nice things about you. I don't think so. What ever point you were trying to make, please save it, because it cuts both ways.!