Cyprus-Forum.com

[BirKibrisli]

There you are BK, for all your troubles; a slap in the face from your GC brothers. At one stage I even thought you were GC along with Kiks.

I doubt there are many Cypriots who don't have some GC and TC in them,yegen...

I know that yegen. I confirmed during it my last visit and am proud of it.

My fathers side even hail from Russia...I wonder what Bafidis will do when he finds out that he has Turkish blood in him.....I think it will drain from his face fast.....

I think Paphidis has fainted,guys...

[Paphitis]

There you are BK, for all your troubles; a slap in the face from your GC brothers. At one stage I even thought you were GC along with Kiks.

I doubt there are many Cypriots who don't have some GC and TC in them,yegen...

I know that yegen. I confirmed during it my last visit and am proud of it.

My fathers side even hail from Russia...I wonder what Bafidis will do when he finds out that he has Turkish blood in him.....I think it will drain from his face fast.....

What would I do? Absolutely nothing!

Care factor would be zero.

Only a Turk would play these silly games.

Anything else boys?

[BirKibrisli]

Personally, I have never mentioned either of these two, as their seems to be counter claims.

But when it comes to 'who began what?', dont you think its best left alone? Shall we go back to adam and eve?

Not when everything begins in 1960!! Better still, why don't we say everything started on 20 Jul 74. This would be much more conventient!!

For you perhaps.

But why deliberately misconstrue what Halil meant ( regarding the beginning as being 1960). I know it is difficult to understand him all the time but you are intelligent enough to understand most of what he says. You keep on going around in circles.
Look, we got rid of EOKA, next step please.

And that was exactly my point. You can not ignore history because it suits you. If you want to intellectually analyse and discuss the Cyprus issue, then you must look at all the information, starting from the 1950s, the Zurich Agreements, 1960, 1963-1967, and onwards to the present day.

And BTW, EOKA lives on. It lives on in the hearts and minds of the "True Cypriots". EOKA is eternal!! It never dies!!

Speak for yourself,Paphidis...I am a True Cypriot,and EOKA is not anywhere near me... Except when I have nightmares...

Your not Cypriot. You are an Ottoman Remnant. An invader from 1571!!!

Your allegiances have never been with Cyprus, but with Turkey.

The rest is all talk, as history shows us all the facts.

Thanks for clearing up my identity crises,Paphidis...

By the way...I was born in Paphos,in a little village called Istinjo at the shirts of the mountains...Where were you born,Paphidis???

Born in Australia, but with heavy roots from Tsada and Yeroskipou. Also have investment interests in Cyprus. So I am heavily attached to the island! I have also visited the island frequently by Australian standards.

Thanks,Paphidis...Can you ask your father/mother/grandparents if they know of a Ramadan Efendi from Yeroskipou who owned a cafe...Would he be called a kafenes???? He was married to my cousin and we often visited in the 60s....

All my grandparents are dead. My parents are dead also. I only have in laws, and they are not from Paphos.

Really sorry to hear that,mate...

[Paphitis]

Personally, I have never mentioned either of these two, as their seems to be counter claims.

But when it comes to 'who began what?', dont you think its best left alone? Shall we go back to adam and eve?

Not when everything begins in 1960!! Better still, why don't we say everything started on 20 Jul 74. This would be much more conventient!!

For you perhaps.

But why deliberately misconstrue what Halil meant ( regarding the beginning as being 1960). I know it is difficult to understand him all the time but you are intelligent enough to understand most of what he says. You keep on going around in circles.
Look, we got rid of EOKA, next step please.

And that was exactly my point. You can not ignore history because it suits you. If you want to intellectually analyse and discuss the Cyprus issue, then you must look at all the information, starting from the 1950s, the Zurich Agreements, 1960, 1963-1967, and onwards to the present day.

And BTW, EOKA lives on. It lives on in the hearts and minds of the "True Cypriots". EOKA is eternal!! It never dies!!

Speak for yourself,Paphidis...I am a True Cypriot,and EOKA is not anywhere near me... Except when I have nightmares...

Your not Cypriot. You are an Ottoman Remnant. An invader from 1571!!!

Your allegiances have never been with Cyprus, but with Turkey.

The rest is all talk, as history shows us all the facts.

Thanks for clearing up my identity crises,Paphidis...

By the way...I was born in Paphos,in a little village called Istinjo at the shirts of the mountains...Where were you born,Paphidis???

Born in Australia, but with heavy roots from Tsada and Yeroskipou. Also have investment interests in Cyprus. So I am heavily attached to the island! I have also visited the island frequently by Australian standards.

Thanks,Paphidis...Can you ask your father/mother/grandparents if they know of a Ramadan Efendi from Yeroskipou who owned a cafe...Would he be called a kafenes???? He was married to my cousin and we often visited in the 60s....

All my grandparents are dead. My parents are dead also. I only have in laws, and they are not from Paphos.

Really sorry to hear that,mate...

A couple of emoticons and some fake words really do nothing for me, particularly when coming from a computer!

[Paphitis]

There you are BK, for all your troubles; a slap in the face from your GC brothers. At one stage I even thought you were GC along with Kiks.

I doubt there are many Cypriots who don't have some GC and TC in them,yegen...

I know that yegen. I confirmed during it my last visit and am proud of it.

My fathers side even hail from Russia...I wonder what Bafidis will do when he finds out that he has Turkish blood in him.....I think it will drain from his face fast.....

I think Paphidis has fainted,guys...

You insult my intelligence.

like I said. Care factor is zero!

[Paphitis]

Deniz, "your GC brothers" why the plural?

I did not want to single out Bafidis. I feel there are others who think like him. I hope I am wrong.

Have you come across any TC with views as BK who has always called GCs his fellow Cypriots Brothers (apart from Kiks). Bafidis re-classification of BK although uncalled for, did not come as a surprise. He is just a wind-up merchant.

You should hope that there are others that think like me. I am not as uncompromising as you think. I am also very tolerant and patient.

But I will always counter belligerance with belligerance. I will also stoop to your level in order to highlight the silly games you play. If you change things around to suit your arguments and points of view, then I will flip the table upside down!

You have also attempted to play the racist card! I can assure you that I am not racist, but I can be heartless, if the situation requires. I have been desensitised of many things!!

[BirKibrisli]

There you are BK, for all your troubles; a slap in the face from your GC brothers. At one stage I even thought you were GC along with Kiks.

If you want serious discussion and debate, then you should all analyse the problem objectively.

If you do not do this then you do not have the islands interests at heart. If you choose to play games and manipulate, then I will do the same.

By "objectively" you mean we should all see the problem as you do,dear Paphidis...Like you "objectively" believe all TCs are "traitors to Cyprus" and their allegiances are with Turkey...

No Bir. You can not say that the Cyprus problem began in 1960. If you do this, then I will say that the Cyprus Problem began in 1974.

Your argument that we should not look at things because they are too far in the past, is not right.

I am more than willing to look at things objectively, and am more than capable in doing so. When any of you counter me with silly arguments and games, then I will do the same.

Can I make myself any clearer?

I never said the Problem started in 1960,Paphidis...
Technically we can take the origins of the present problem to 1571,but it will not help us much...Better to stick to more recent dates....a good place to start would be when the British suggested/implied/promised to give Cyprus to Greece if and when they depart...That was probably when the ENOSIS seed started to grow strongly withing the hearts and minds of the GCs...Then came the Church sponsored plebisite...The Turkish and Greek involvement...The British backflip...The EOKA campaign....The TMT campaign...The 1959 agreements....1960-63 period...64-74 period...and of course post 74 period....
Listing this was the easy part...The problem is to "objectively" analyse these events and agree on the truth of the matter...We have failed to do it so far...Which explains why we are where we are...

I want to ask you one question,Paphidis...If you are willing to try to be objective....If there was no demand for Enosis with Greece,do you think that might have changed the course of the events???? And while you are there,do you think there would have been a TMT if not for EOKA????
And please don't assume that I think I have the answers,because I don't...
I just want to know what you think...

[BirKibrisli]

There you are BK, for all your troubles; a slap in the face from your GC brothers. At one stage I even thought you were GC along with Kiks.

I doubt there are many Cypriots who don't have some GC and TC in them,yegen...

I know that yegen. I confirmed during it my last visit and am proud of it.

My fathers side even hail from Russia...I wonder what Bafidis will do when he finds out that he has Turkish blood in him.....I think it will drain from his face fast.....

I think Paphidis has fainted,guys...

You insult my intelligence.

like I said. Care factor is zero!

Sorry,mate...Just joining in with the fun and games...
don't take it seriously...But I am asking some serious questions in the post above...You might like to answer them...

[Paphitis]

I never said the Problem started in 1960,Paphidis...

I am happy you say this. However, there are a few who conveniently disregard significant parts of our History because it suits their political views.

As far as I am concerned, you can look as far back as you like. But the Cyprus problem did not start in 1960. There were significant events which occurred before 1960, which contributed significantly to what we have today.

Technically we can take the origins of the present problem to 1571,but it will not help us much...Better to stick to more recent dates....a good place to start would be when the British suggested/implied/promised to give Cyprus to Greece if and when they depart...That was probably when the ENOSIS seed started to grow strongly withing the hearts and minds of the GCs...Then came the Church sponsored plebisite...The Turkish and Greek involvement...The British backflip...The EOKA campaign....The TMT campaign...The 1959 agreements....1960-63 period...64-74 period...and of course post 74 period....

You are more than welcome to take it as far back as 1571. This is however a little unrealistic.

Listing this was the easy part...The problem is to "objectively" analyse these events and agree on the truth of the matter...We have failed to do it so far...Which explains why we are where we are...

I am more than willing and capable of discussing the issues in an objective manner.

I want to ask you one question,Paphidis...If you are willing to try to be objective....If there was no demand for Enosis with Greece,do you think that might have changed the course of the events????

I firmly believe that GCs, who consisted 80% of the population, were well within their rights to demand and fight for ENOSIS. They demanded ENOSIS due to strong cultural ties with Greece and because they did not see independence as a viable option at the time.

We are talking about a people that have practically never had any form of self determination for centuries. In fact, I am totally amazed at the Cypriot spirit and our ability to maintain our own culture and nationality, considering the countless invasions and persecutions. So, I ask you, are you surprised that the GCs asked for ENOSIS?

If there was no demand for ENOSIS, then perhaps things would have been different. The same can be said about the TCs if they chose not to ignore the "Patriot" plea from Grivas. The TCs ignored the plea, and formed TMT. Can you imagine what would have happened if the TCs actually united with the GCs, or at least provided moral support? Do you think we would have been able to persist with ENOSIS? I firmly believe that the TCs also had a great opportunity to unite with the GCs and even voice their opposition to ENOSIS. This was the time to unite as one brotherhood. If you considered the GCs as your "patriots", then you should have reached out during these bad times. Friends and Patriots stick together, particularly during tough times. Now, it is sadly too late! The egg shell is broken and it can not be fixed.

And while you are there,do you think there would have been a TMT if not for EOKA????

No.

And please don't assume that I think I have the answers,because I don't...
I just want to know what you think...

I think it would take a brave person to state that they have all the answers. The politicians don't even have the answers.

We can only search for the truth, with open eyes and objectivity.

Please do not twist any of my words above. Whatever I say is purely opinion, particularly due to the nature of questions you ask.

And apologies about calling you an Ottoman Remnant. This is really not my true nature.

I can be as intelligent and objective as you like. I do in fact accept that mistakes were made from both sides. But the occupation continues, despite Turkey's responsibility to return the state of affairs back to the 1959 treaty, as a guarantor power. This has clearly not happened, even when the the GCs offered it during negotiations.

The thread did stoop to low levels, and we are all responsible for that.

You can throw my apology back in my face if you wish.

[denizaksulu]

I never said the Problem started in 1960,Paphidis...

I am happy you say this. However, there are a few who conveniently disregard significant parts of our History because it suits their political views.

As far as I am concerned, you can look as far back as you like. But the Cyprus problem did not start in 1960. There were significant events which occurred before 1960, which contributed significantly to what we have today.

Technically we can take the origins of the present problem to 1571,but it will not help us much...Better to stick to more recent dates....a good place to start would be when the British suggested/implied/promised to give Cyprus to Greece if and when they depart...That was probably when the ENOSIS seed started to grow strongly withing the hearts and minds of the GCs...Then came the Church sponsored plebisite...The Turkish and Greek involvement...The British backflip...The EOKA campaign....The TMT campaign...The 1959 agreements....1960-63 period...64-74 period...and of course post 74 period....

You are more than welcome to take it as far back as 1571. This is however a little unrealistic.

Listing this was the easy part...The problem is to "objectively" analyse these events and agree on the truth of the matter...We have failed to do it so far...Which explains why we are where we are...

I am more than willing and capable of discussing the issues in an objective manner.

I want to ask you one question,Paphidis...If you are willing to try to be objective....If there was no demand for Enosis with Greece,do you think that might have changed the course of the events????

I firmly believe that GCs, who consisted 80% of the population, were well within their rights to demand and fight for ENOSIS. They demanded ENOSIS due to strong cultural ties with Greece and because they did not see independence as a viable option at the time.

We are talking about a people that have practically never had any form of self determination for centuries. In fact, I am totally amazed at the Cypriot spirit and our ability to maintain our own culture and nationality, considering the countless invasions and persecutions. So, I ask you, are you surprised that the GCs asked for ENOSIS?

If there was no demand for ENOSIS, then perhaps things would have been different. The same can be said about the TCs if they chose not to ignore the "Patriot" plea from Grivas. The TCs ignored the plea, and formed TMT. Can you imagine what would have happened if the TCs actually united with the GCs, or at least provided moral support? Do you think we would have been able to persist with ENOSIS? I firmly believe that the TCs also had a great opportunity to unite with the GCs and even voice their opposition to ENOSIS. This was the time to unite as one brotherhood. If you considered the GCs as your "patriots", then you should have reached out during these bad times. Friends and Patriots stick together, particularly during tough times. Now, it is sadly too late! The egg shell is broken and it can not be fixed.

And while you are there,do you think there would have been a TMT if not for EOKA????

No.

And please don't assume that I think I have the answers,because I don't...
I just want to know what you think...

I think it would take a brave person to state that they have all the answers. The politicians don't even have the answers.

We can only search for the truth, with open eyes and objectivity.

Please do not twist any of my words above. Whatever I say is purely opinion, particularly due to the nature of questions you ask.

And apologies about calling you an Ottoman Remnant. This is really not my true nature.

I can be as intelligent and objective as you like. I do in fact accept that mistakes were made from both sides. But the occupation continues, despite Turkey's responsibility to return the state of affairs back to the 1959 treaty, as a guarantor power. This has clearly not happened, even when the the GCs offered it during negotiations.

The thread did stoop to low levels, and we are all responsible for that.

You can throw my apology back in my face if you wish.

I have read your response to BKs post. But somehow you do not see it as our prerogative not to wish to become part of Greece. Most of you think that either the TCs had to leave or succumb to be dominated by Greece. Dont you undestand that Bafidis? Had there benn no such desire of E, then there would not be a a cry from the moslem population.