Cyprus-Forum.com

[Nikitas]

Mr T said:

"Your Greek guerilla analogy does not hold water. That was during a war.
Britain was not at war with Greek Cypriots. If it had been the outcome would have been somewhat different."

It was not officially at war with the Americans in 1776 either. You like to think that Britain ruled Cyprus like a little England. It did not. The legislative council, supposed to be a representative body, had a unique set up engineered so that the majority of 400 000 GCs never managed to put through one single proposal. in 80 years of British rule. Taxation was vicious since the island had to pay the costs of its occupation.

You mention Cypriots being politically backward in the 50s, after three generations as a British colony, that says a lot about the colonial power and its priorities in education.

[BirKibrisli]

I was not looking for a shoulder to cry on,Paphidis...
I was simply airing a question that has been troubling me for some time...
You chose to come back with the predictable "all TCs are traitors" attitude,and totally ignored the essence of my question...

Thankfully,miltiades,Bananiot,Kifeas, Nikitas,and michalis to some extend,gave their best shot to answer my query,and I thank them for it...

Good to hear Bir. You do try to play the sympathy card, time and time again, and hence my response to you. To my mind, I believe that I have answered your question with a bit more substance than what other members have. The sentiments expressed by me are low on symbolism but are honest. And I do not need to sugar coat my remarks to gain any kudos or admiration and acknowledgement from other members. That is who I am and the ideals I live by.

Your question was answered by me honestly and diligently. If you read it again, you would notice that I did indeed sympathise with any TC victims and their families. I merely also pointed out that I expect the same about the 10,000 GC victims from 1958-1974, and you have chosen to overlook this, which further lowers my opinion of you. There were victims on both sides, but the facts remain, that the first persons killed by any Inter Communal violence were in fact GCs. The TCs chose to oppose the wishes of the majority. Britain's "Divide and Rule" was working. The GCs did in fact appeal to the TCs as "Patriots", but this was unfortunately ignored.

I would be very careful when throwing allegations of "High treason" as lightly as you and some of your collaborators do...By your own definition, and theoretically, Makarios and the GC politicians at the time(including past president Papadopoulos),plus the EOKA members can all be accused of High treason themselves...They were not fighting for independence....They were fighting to unite their homeland with a "Foreign" country,hence betraying the oath they must've taken when sworn in as Ministers of the Republic of Cyprus....What you are missing is the essential ingredients which will help us to unite our country,empathy and compassion for the TCs...You cannot even imagine the position the GC demand for ENOSIS put the TCs at the time...They simply thought they had no other option but fight it by all means they can command...

Clearly, I have not made any reference to either Makarios, Pappadopoulos, or any other GC politician. I do not consider any of them to be treasonous. Those that envisaged "ENOSIS" in the 50s were not treasonous. And the same individuals that changed their minds post 1960, were still not treasonous. To be honest, I am finding it very difficult to understand what you are on about.

But yes, I referred to TCs as being treasonous to the state. I consider the TCs as treasonous because they turned their backs to the GCs at a time when they were needed, for TMT, withdrawing from Government in 1963, and assisting the Turkish invasion in 1974. And I also maintain that some GCs (EOKA B) are also treasonous to the state. Treason in the form of the EOKA B violence against TCs between 1963-1967, and for the Coup against Makarios.

So your accusation of me showing some kind of bias which favors the GC argument, is invalid. I can see wrongs from both sides, but it now appears that you are showing your true colors by only seeing the wrongs from your side only. This is very unfortunate.

All the other members who replied showed this empathy if not compassion,for which I am grateful...And in case you are wondering,I too think it was a legitimate and understandable action to demand ENOSIS with Greece at the time...I am just scratching my head wondering how on earth they thought they would get away with it...

I am very disappointed with your attitude Bir. Because I too showed empathy with the TC victims. I also reminded you of the GC victims, and unfortunately you have still neglected to mention anything.

The "shoulder to cry on" remark is because you portray yourself as the sole victim. Some of you also portray this as a Genocide. And yet you forget about the first victims which were in actual fact, GC, and numbered some 10,000 or so.

The sympathy I expressed is the only "real" sympathy, as it came from the heart and was honest, and without the sugar coating. So you should be thanking me!

I am still waiting for reciprocal sympathy, but judging from your belligerence, I may be waiting a long time....

Words can not describe my disappointment.

Sorry it has taken me this time to reply,Paphidis...My computer time is rather limited these days...

Writing on this Forum is a bit like reading History...You have to go back and see what happened in the past...Where people stood when they started,where they are now....I am sorry that you are disappointed with my posts...But I can live with that...What our beloved Cyprus cannot live with is misunderstanding,disrespect and mistrust...My stand from the beginning has been to try to foster understanding,respect and trust between our communities,so that we can move on to empathy and compassion,and solve this bloody problem once and for all..You can go back and look at my older posts if you like...My strong belief has always been,and still is,that a truly lasting and peaceful solution lies in our putting our Cypriotness above all else...To forget about majorities and minorities,and become Cypriots...Mature,compassionate,trusting people working towards a unified country and a unified nation...A nation of Cypriots in all their diversity living in a fully democratic country where the rule of law and human rights are totally respected...My frustration comes from knowing that people like yourself (and a few others who are being much more racist and chauvinistic than your good self) who come out with bigotted and prejudiced blanket statements like "all TCs are being traitors to their country" are doing nothing to help foster understanding and respect,let alone trust or compassion amongst our people...Our people I say,the Cypriot people...My empathy and compassion for my compatriots of GC background cannot be disputed...It is in every one of my posts from day one...I have stated many times that one death of one Cypriot diminishes us all as human beings,let alone thousands of mindless deaths of innocent people...I am deeply ashamed of the part played by my community and my Turkish ancestors in our tragic saga...But this does not stop me from trying to understand more and more about what really happened in the phyche of our people back in those Goddamn years of darkness and evil...

[Bananiot]

Birkibrisli, our bigots even have a problem with calling our representative football team "National Team". They reckon that no such nation (Cypriot)exist.

[RichardB]

I’ll take an uphill
I’ll take footpaths
To find the steps
That lead to freedom

I’ll lose siblings and relatives
Mother and father
In the thickets yonder
And mountain sides

Looking for freedom
With the only company
The whiter than white snow
Mountains and ravines (?)

Although its winter now,
Summer will come
To bring freedom
In towns and villages

I’ll take an uphill
I’ll take footpaths
To find the steps
That lead to freedom

I’ll climb the steps
I’ll enter a palace
I know it’ll be an illusion
It won’t be real.

In the palace I’ll roam
Until I find the throne
Only a queen
To be seated thereupon

Daughter “πανώρια”(?) I’ll tell her
Open your wings
And take me close to you
That’s all I ask for.

Hello old school mates
The last words I write for you today
And anyone who wants to find a lost brother
An old friend

I’ll take an uphill
I’ll take footpaths
To find the steps
That leads to freedom

5 December 1955 - Evagoras Pallikaridis

Any one recognise the above?

You ALL should

The words of a TRUE Cypriot

(Thanks to a real Cypriot for the translation)

[halil]

more to come tomorrow

[denizaksulu]

The message is just as relevant today: "This plot of land is not for sale". The Greek Cypriots will never accept compensation for their stolen homes!

OK, we wont accept compensation either.

[denizaksulu]

topic is EOKA not stamps .....

Nice one Halil Bey

And what does that have to do with EOKA you blithering old fools?

That was the year you Turks first Napalmed us .... 1964!

The topic is still EOKA. Keep your cool O. Your insults only show you up.

So why did halil post a 1964 "cartoon"? .... your stupidity does you credit!

EOKA existed then as it did in 1974 and does still in peoples hearts. If you call me stupid again, I will be very cross with you. You will be crying ADMIN again

[Paphitis]

"all TCs are being traitors to their country"

My apologies Bir for calling TCs traitors to their country.

I apologise because this is in fact completely untrue.

TCs are not traitors to their country. They have always proven themselves to be loyal to Turkey, so off course they can not be traitors to their country.

They have proven their loyalty to Turkey on several occasions, such as:
1) Forming TMT and being the first to commit inter communal violence against the GCs,
2) Withdrawing from government in 1963 and promoting TAKSIM,
3) Aiding and abetting the Turkish Invasion and occupation.

The only individuals that can be labelled traitors, are EOKA B and those involved in the Greek Coup against Makarios. TCs do not qualify as traitors to Cyprus I am afraid!

The rest of your post above is truly appreciated and respected. I appreciate the fact that you recognise that GCs suffered and the hands of the Turks, and that you also express sympathy.

Also note, that "racist" is another label used a little too loosely on this forum. I believe that only 1 member is deserving of this label, and he is not a GC or TC. I think most of you will know who I am referring to.

[BirKibrisli]

Birkibrisli, our bigots even have a problem with calling our representative football team "National Team". They reckon that no such nation (Cypriot)exist.

It is very sad,Bananiot...

I wonder if there is another people,another nation, on the face of this earth,who insist on denying who they are...There must be a few PHD degrees in mass psychology in this for sure...

[connor]

My father was GC. My mother was English. I was born, raised and educated in the UK. Now I choose to live in Cyprus. Am lucky I s'pose because I hold dual nationality both English and Cypriot. When asked what I am...I simply say Cypriot.

Why can't more of you say that..?

Drop the GC and the TC titles folks..!

History is history...it happened...can't change it can you.

As I see it if you all cling to these GC/TC titles the Cyprus problem will never be solved. Cyprus is a country which physically stands on its own...its an island. The people living on this island..regardless of their racial origins should regard themselves as Cypriots.

After the 2nd world war a phrase was commonly used in the UK..."Forgive but don't forget." It referred of course to the attrocities carried out by the respective enemies of the time. Is it not possible for that simple phrase to be adopted by all and sundry here in Cyprus and to henceforth build on that...?

Yesterday my wife and I went for a walk round our village and we came across the remains of a small Turkish cemetry. Its in a terrible state. Headstones smashed etc etc. Ok I can understand that feelings were running high at the time and in a way can see why it was treated so badly. Tempers were flaming.

Am going to suggest to our village council members, all Greeks I believe, that this cemetry be renovated and made to look presentable again as a sign of respect to those buried there. Am told that Greek cemetries north of Nicosia have been badly treated as well. If both sides could start to make gestures like this....who knows where it might lead.

The foregoing suggestion may seem a little naive to some and perhaps even simple in its form...but its generally reckoned that the best inventions are the simple ones.

Come on people its been 34 years....time to get our acts together and start treating each other as human beings and bring the slanging matches to a halt. Mistakes were made on both sides, as far as I can see.

Am going to suggest to our village council that the renovation of that cemetry be carried out by volunteers drawn from the local community. Wish me luck...!