Cyprus-Forum.com

[Paphitis]

I think what Mr. T is trying to say is that both sides of the Cyprus dispute had their resistance movements and that their goals were compromised when members from these groups ended up resorting to 'softer targets', calling such hits 'necessary collateral damage'. In other words, a pretty murderous cop-out, which both EOKA and TMT have been accused of by either side...

Does that also mean that The Iraqi Campaign is also compromised for numerous war crimes, and the killing of thousands of innocent and unarmed civilians? You do not detect any hypocrisy?

British soldiers charged with war crimes
Reporter: Tom Iggulden


TONY JONES: Three British soldiers who served in Iraq have become the first to be charged with war crimes. This follows an investigation into the killing of an Iraqi civilian in Basra in 2003. The soldiers have been charged under the jurisdiction of the International Criminal Court but they've escaped trial in The Hague and will instead face court in Britain.

Tom Iggulden has the details.

TOM IGGULDEN: September 2003 and Iraq is in chaos. Amid the violence, British soldiers operating in Basra detain suspected insurgents. It was an operation that would lead to two corporals and a private from the Queen's Lancashire Regiment being charged under international law with war crimes after this man, Baha Da'oud Salim Musa, was allegedly being beaten to death in British custody. Seven of the regiment's soldiers, including the three accused of war crimes, have also been charged under British military law with crimes including manslaughter and assault. One of those charged is Colonel Jorge Mendonca, the regiment's commanding officer, who was the first to investigate the incident.

Britain joined the International Criminal Court (ICC) in 2001 as part of then Foreign Secretary Robin Cook's "ethical foreign policy." He later resigned in protest over the Iraq war.

ROBIN COOK, FORMER BRITISH FOREIGN SECRETARY, MARCH 18, 2003: Iraq probably has no weapons of mass destruction in the commonly understood sense of the term.

TOM IGGULDEN: The decision took place over the objections of senior British military figures, but Cook assured them the change would have no impact on British soldiers. Times have changed since the Abu Ghraib scandal.

TONY BLAIR, BRITISH PRIME MINISTER: We apologise deeply to anyone who has been mistreated by any of our soldiers. That is absolutely and totally unacceptable.

TOM IGGULDEN: Like Britain, Australian soldiers are covered by the ICC, US forces are not. Earlier this evening, the British regiment at the centre of the allegations issued a statement saying in part:

BRIGADIER GEOFFREY SHELDON: "From the moment that Mr Baha Musa lost his life while in our custody, the Regiment has made clear that this was an isolated tragic incident, which should never have happened and which I and every member of the Queen's Lancashire Regiment bitterly regrets."

TOM IGGULDEN: The statement went on:

BRIGADIER GEOFFREY SHELDON: "..it must not be forgotten that Basra in September 2003 was in intensely dangerous and violently difficult city suffering from rampant unrest, economic devastation and administrative chaos."

TOM IGGULDEN: The charges come on the same day a London-based group called Iraq Body Count released its first report into Iraqi civilian deaths during the conflict. Collating and corroborating media reports, the group says 25,000 Iraqis have died.

PROFESSOR JOHN SLOBODA, REPORT CO-AUTHOR: We decided that we wanted to record the most horrific cost of any war, which is the cost in innocent lives. And we were fearful there would be many lives lost and we were also fearful that the governments prosecuting this war would not be doing an official count themselves.

TOM IGGULDEN: US forces killed a third of the 25,000, with what the report calls 'criminals' responsible for another third. Less than 10 per cent were killed by insurgents, a finding disputed by the Iraqi Government.

[Paphitis]

British terrorists not frustrated religious loners:

MI5 report

London, Aug 21 (ANI): British terrorists are just as likely to be married with children and have little religious background as they are to be fundamentalist loners, a leaked MI5 study has said.

Research from the security service found it was impossible to draw up a typical profile of a “British Terrorist” contradicting the perception that all are traditional religious fanatics or Islamic fundamentalists, The Telegraph reported.

The classified report on radicalisation concluded there is no single pathway to violent extremism and no easy way to identify those who would become involved in terrorism in Britain.

Source: Wordpress

I, for one, had already read this. Pleased to see you don't call them freedom fighters.

I don't euphemise, as you know. But I am still waiting to see how all this fits into Cyprus Problem .....

Don't be shy or are you saying you don't recognise the numerous killings of civilians such as the school teaacher I mentioned?

How about Catherine Cutliffe?

So Mr "Tosser",

Do not come here and start talking big about how The British were dealt with in Cyprus during our campaign for self determination and freedom which you tried to prevent in a most barbaric way. Cyprus still has the scars of your "Divide and Rule", policy to this very day.

Never ever degrade the memory of our fallen heroes such as Evagoras Pallikaridis, for he is more of a man, than what you or I will ever become. I for one will also not degrade your fallen, both soldier and civilian, as may they too rest in peace.

You are also held to account for the numerous war crimes and for the killing of thousands of innocent and unarmed civilians that you are responsible for in numerous military encounters of your much loved and perceived "perfect" country.

So on ya bike fella, and remember if you try to pull this shit again, I will once again deal with you in the manner you deserve.

[utu]

Pathitis, Unfortunately, there are no 'squeaky-clean' countries on this planet. FYI, I don't care for terrorism at all, regardless of its guises. That goes for the conduct of recognized armed forces as well. War is a horrible thing, and so is tyranny. I suppose if you want to see none of it, the only thing I can suggest is to move to Antarctica...

[Floda]

Terrorists and their supporters like to call themselves freedom fighters.

And what does "Mr T" stand for ?.

"Mr Tosser" talking like a twat.

Brainwashed Bigotted British Bulldog Bonehead Babbling Bollocks.

[halil]

For me my history as a Turkish Cypriot start from 1960 to present day .

That is a very shallow statement Halil

Not Iceman ,
what is the point for me to go back and Talk what was happened ,9000 ,400 years ago or to talk what British done for us ....etc...etc....

God gave us brain Iceman ..... at the end there was a ROC .
we were equal partner in this republic . u and me knowing what happened ... Without public support , they will not destroy the Republic and we will not have a Cyprus problem and in this forum we will talk something else .... we will not talk everyday who started first , who was right or wrong ....

It is a only cheap excuse to blame third parties.

u know this expression ''Çuvaldızı önce kendine , İğneği de başkalarına battır '' (hit yourself with packing needle and hit the others with needle )

Have a nice day Iceman !

[miltiades]

British terrorists not frustrated religious loners:

MI5 report

London, Aug 21 (ANI): British terrorists are just as likely to be married with children and have little religious background as they are to be fundamentalist loners, a leaked MI5 study has said.

Research from the security service found it was impossible to draw up a typical profile of a “British Terrorist” contradicting the perception that all are traditional religious fanatics or Islamic fundamentalists, The Telegraph reported.

strategic The classified report on radicalisation concluded there is no single pathway to violent extremism and no easy way to identify those who would become involved in terrorism in Britain.

Source: Wordpress

I, for one, had already read this. Pleased to see you don't call them freedom fighters.

I don't euphemise, as you know. But I am still waiting to see how all this fits into Cyprus Problem .....

Don't be shy or are you saying you don't recognise the numerous killings of civilians such as the school teaacher I mentioned?

How about Catherine Cutliffe?

Perhaps you wish to explain the oppression, and enslavement, and of the Cypriot people.

The Cypriot people had every right to fight for their self determination which you brutally opposed. You imprisoned and tortured our people, took away their freedom and dignity.

Perhaps you should get a good dictionary and look up the meaning of the words 'oppression' and 'enslavement' . May I suggest you consider the Oxford English dictionary. It shows you are using words in error.

I am not surprised for one second that you are a supporter of killings of women and children by cowards and doubt whether you realise that this is what started the events that culminated in Turkey's attack in 1974.

GC's brought the problem upon themselves and are in a state of self denial.

As one who is well known for his revulsion at the indiscriminate killing of innocents by so called freedom fighters in either Afghanistan , Pakistan or Iraq let me say quite clearly that the Liberation struggle by the G/Cs against Britain was not only full justified but it was the duty of every freedom loving Cypriot to challenge the British rule of Cyprus , I will agree that your statement that Britain was a far better " Administrator " than either Turkey or Portugal could have been , but it was nevertheless an administration enforced on the people of Cyprus who rightfully resented it and demanded their freedom.
You can not seriously compare the vulgarity of the suicide "freedom fighters " with the 300 or so G/Cs who took on the might of the empire.
Britain , just like other superpowers of the past , naturally had its own strategic interests at heart and used all dirty tricks in order to defeat the liberation struggle , one of them the auxiliary force made up entirely of T/Cs with the undisputed aim of divide and rule.
I'm a pro west and pro British but the truth of the matter is that Britain contributed greatly to the catastrophe that occurred in 1974 with Turkey invading even by reneging on her guarantor duty to protect the territorial integrity of Cyprus. Do not be surprised that many Cypriots hold Britain responsible for much of what happened.

Halleluya!

Miltiades, this time I got to hand it to you. This is a most intelligent and well balanced post that you have written in quite some time. Well done!

Let me assure you that this has been my position from day one , it has never changed , influenced by anyone and neither has it ever been challenged by any one , British or otherwise. My comments will be seen by most as well balanced and presented by an individual who is pro Western and pro British .
Let me however challenge your statement of British barbaric rule over Cyprus. It was nothing of the sort , on the contrary the British , prior to 1955 were responsible humane and above all acted in a most civilized fashion.
I lived through those years and encountered the kindness and civility of the British . Remembering that our civil administration of today was founded by the British.
I personally as a child and an orphan , having lost my mother to the September 10 1953 earthquake , experienced first hand the kindness and human nature of the British which is more than I can say for those that could have done much for the victims of that terrible earthquake.
On the morning of the earthquake the Brits took control and quickly provided the victims with shelter , food and medical treatment, they did not act as barbarians but as decent humans who genuinely cared for the victims.
Growing up later on and joining ANE at the age of 12 - 13 I did not find my self at odds with my conscious since I believed entirely that we , as Cypriots , had a right to demand our self determination . My older brother served as a full member of the organization and we were both determined to carry on the struggle for liberation.
Both of us are now in the UK , both with children that are half English and half Cypriot , both sharing the opinion that we were right in joining the struggle and both pro British and most of all appreciative of the Great British Nation.

[Paphitis]

I will only challenge the following point you make about the British authorities:

Let me however challenge your statement of British barbaric rule over Cyprus.

The British occupation was barbaric for many reasons such as their "Divide and Rule" policy on Cyprus which had caused extensive bloodshed between GCs and TCs. Hostilities and Inter Communal violence resulted from this "Divide and Rule" which ultimately has led us to our present situation of a partitioned island under Turkish occupation.

Below is another example of British brutality. There are many more such examples.

When after World War 2 the Cypriot people demanded to be freed of the British yoke following the example of other Crown Colonies, Turkey reneged on the treaties which bound it and began a campaign of state sponsored terrorism against the majority of Cypriots both Christians and Muslims that wanted independence and democracy. This campaign of terror in Cyprus was carried out in parallel with a Turkish government orchestrated campaign to exterminate the indigenous Greeks of Asia-Minor and Constantinople. In November 1957 the TMT Terrorist Organisation was formed by Rauf Denktash, and was funded and trained by Turkey.

On 12 June 1958 eight innocent unarmed Greek Cypriot civilians from Kondemenos village were murdered by T.M.T. terrorists near the Turkish Cypriot populated village of Geunyeli in an totally unprovoked attack, after being dropped off there by the British authorities. After this the Turkish government ordered the TMT to blow up the offices of the Turkish press office in Nicosia in order to falsely put the blame of the Greek Cypriots and prevent independence negotiations from succeeding. It also began a string of assassinations and murders of prominent Turkish Cypriot supporters of independence.

Yes that's right. The British authorities dropped off 8 innocent unarmed GC civilians into a TMT controlled area. They new very well what would await these unfortunate souls at the hands of the TMT. The British surely did not expect the TMT to greet these 8 GC civilians with flowers. They were murdered, and the British administration is just as much responsible for these murders as those that pulled the trigger.

In my book, the above constitutes a British WAR CRIME!

[DT.]

Although a very good subject to discuss it looks like you've all given Mr T a little too much attention, considering his capabilities as a simple firestarter with no logical points to back up any of his arguments on this forum to date.

Halil, if a TC's history only began in 1960 then there is no way you are in any position to understand what 80% of the inhabitants of this island need to feel secure in a new solution.

[Paphitis]

Although a very good subject to discuss it looks like you've all given Mr T a little too much attention, considering his capabilities as a simple firestarter with no logical points to back up any of his arguments on this forum to date.

Halil, if a TC's history only began in 1960 then there is no way you are in any position to understand what 80% of the inhabitants of this island need to feel secure in a new solution.

Thanks GR!

We will ask him to back up his posts with proper reputable links and sources next time.

[DT.]

Although a very good subject to discuss it looks like you've all given Mr T a little too much attention, considering his capabilities as a simple firestarter with no logical points to back up any of his arguments on this forum to date.

Halil, if a TC's history only began in 1960 then there is no way you are in any position to understand what 80% of the inhabitants of this island need to feel secure in a new solution.

Thanks GR!

We will ask him to back up his posts with proper reputable links and sources next time.

I'm a little insulted there re Paphiti