Cyprus-Forum.com

[miltiades]

Excellent post Kikapu !

[Vuryek]

I want to thank Pantheman and Kikapu. You both really made me happy.

Especially Kikapu, thanks for your informing post. It will help me much, while considering posts and replying them.

I agree with you about all of your points. Recent system of "TRNC" absolutely was designed to create an empty minded young society, who will never try to learn how to work, under the domination of fascism. Many “nationalist” TC, who are really aware of many things, think that this unnatural lazy-richness system will never last because of needs of Turkey. Some of them (like Denktash family ) really don’t care what will happen in future, if they have “enough” money. Every day we face with new threats of assimilation, some of them are easy to reveal and oppose, like fanatic religion education, and some of them are not easy to reveal like, importing trade unions of Turkey. And sadly, our worst weakness is the education system, which prevent us to educate others effectively, because we cannot control it but fortunately they don’t know how to control it also

I am not hopeless because we have chance to reveal and learn reality, more than last two decades

Thank you again.

[Tim Drayton]

I want to thank Pantheman and Kikapu. You both really made me happy.

Especially Kikapu, thanks for your informing post. It will help me much, while considering posts and replying them.

I agree with you about all of your points. Recent system of "TRNC" absolutely was designed to create an empty minded young society, who will never try to learn how to work, under the domination of fascism. Many “nationalist” TC, who are really aware of many things, think that this unnatural lazy-richness system will never last because of needs of Turkey. Some of them (like Denktash family ) really don’t care what will happen in future, if they have “enough” money. Every day we face with new threats of assimilation, some of them are easy to reveal and oppose, like fanatic religion education, and some of them are not easy to reveal like, importing trade unions of Turkey. And sadly, our worst weakness is the education system, which prevent us to educate others effectively, because we cannot control it but fortunately they don’t know how to control it also

I am not hopeless because we have chance to reveal and learn reality, more than last two decades

Thank you again.

Vuryek,
Could you elaborate a little more on this point of importing trade unions from Turkey.
As far as I am aware, the Turkish Cypriot trade unions have been at the vanguard of the new movement that has begun to oppose the way Talat, Soyer and their cronies have become pulled into the corrupt mechanisms of the TRNC and have become little more than puppets of Ankara, and that has started to resurrect the "This Country is Ours" platform in the shape of the "Peace Platform". In other words, it seems to me that the trade union movement is playing a very progressive role in Turkish Cypriot politics, so your statement surprises me somewhat.

[BirKibrisli]

I want to thank Pantheman and Kikapu. You both really made me happy.

Especially Kikapu, thanks for your informing post. It will help me much, while considering posts and replying them.

I agree with you about all of your points. Recent system of "TRNC" absolutely was designed to create an empty minded young society, who will never try to learn how to work, under the domination of fascism. Many “nationalist” TC, who are really aware of many things, think that this unnatural lazy-richness system will never last because of needs of Turkey. Some of them (like Denktash family ) really don’t care what will happen in future, if they have “enough” money. Every day we face with new threats of assimilation, some of them are easy to reveal and oppose, like fanatic religion education, and some of them are not easy to reveal like, importing trade unions of Turkey. And sadly, our worst weakness is the education system, which prevent us to educate others effectively, because we cannot control it but fortunately they don’t know how to control it also

I am not hopeless because we have chance to reveal and learn reality, more than last two decades

Thank you again.

Vuryek,
Could you elaborate a little more on this point of importing trade unions from Turkey.
As far as I am aware, the Turkish Cypriot trade unions have been at the vanguard of the new movement that has begun to oppose the way Talat, Soyer and their cronies have become pulled into the corrupt mechanisms of the TRNC and have become little more than puppets of Ankara, and that has started to resurrect the "This Country is Ours" platform in the shape of the "Peace Platform". In other words, it seems to me that the trade union movement is playing a very progressive role in Turkish Cypriot politics, so your statement surprises me somewhat.

Perhaps it is because the TC trade unions are playing a progressive role that they have to be infiltrated and taken over,Tim...It is an open practice of the AKP in Turkey to infiltrate and control the trade unions...It is realatively easy there because the left and the unions were gutted by the 1970 and 1980 coup d'etats...I imagine it would take somewhat more time to tender the TC unions ineffective,but time and dirty tricks imported from Turkey are what they got on the Government side in the trnc...

[Tim Drayton]

I want to thank Pantheman and Kikapu. You both really made me happy.

Especially Kikapu, thanks for your informing post. It will help me much, while considering posts and replying them.

I agree with you about all of your points. Recent system of "TRNC" absolutely was designed to create an empty minded young society, who will never try to learn how to work, under the domination of fascism. Many “nationalist” TC, who are really aware of many things, think that this unnatural lazy-richness system will never last because of needs of Turkey. Some of them (like Denktash family ) really don’t care what will happen in future, if they have “enough” money. Every day we face with new threats of assimilation, some of them are easy to reveal and oppose, like fanatic religion education, and some of them are not easy to reveal like, importing trade unions of Turkey. And sadly, our worst weakness is the education system, which prevent us to educate others effectively, because we cannot control it but fortunately they don’t know how to control it also

I am not hopeless because we have chance to reveal and learn reality, more than last two decades

Thank you again.

Vuryek,
Could you elaborate a little more on this point of importing trade unions from Turkey.
As far as I am aware, the Turkish Cypriot trade unions have been at the vanguard of the new movement that has begun to oppose the way Talat, Soyer and their cronies have become pulled into the corrupt mechanisms of the TRNC and have become little more than puppets of Ankara, and that has started to resurrect the "This Country is Ours" platform in the shape of the "Peace Platform". In other words, it seems to me that the trade union movement is playing a very progressive role in Turkish Cypriot politics, so your statement surprises me somewhat.

Perhaps it is because the TC trade unions are playing a progressive role that they have to be infiltrated and taken over,Tim...It is an open practice of the AKP in Turkey to infiltrate and control the trade unions...It is realatively easy there because the left and the unions were gutted by the 1970 and 1980 coup d'etats...I imagine it would take somewhat more time to tender the TC unions ineffective,but time and dirty tricks imported from Turkey are what they got on the Government side in the trnc...

I know what you mean. The way that the four young people who this thread is devoted two had computers and books confiscated in police raids that were really acts of breaking and entering at a time when they were under lock and key - according to the press after having been caught red-handed writing anti-Turkish army graffiti but according to other sources after they were first detained for not having ID cards about their person (since when have people been detained for that in the TRNC?) and then having the graffiti charge imposed on them - smacks very much of 12 September Turkey. Strange, I have always felt that the TRNC was a place governed by the rule of law, even if it is the "TRNC" with its "law".

[halil]

Halil
From your research.Have you found any information regarding the Maronites taking sides in Cyprus issue?

No İceman ,

only i have a information how they have treated badly during Ottoman time , some of them changed their religion from Cristianity to moslem .
They were Catoliks and they were treated also badly by ordox churche in Cyprus during Ottoman time . They did have their great times during the Venation time .
In Cyprus they are loosing their mother language ,they speaks Greek and less Arabic ....Arabic is their mother language .
I am not in my office at the moment , I will give more information tomorrow also i will write second part of the Cyprus from 1960-1974 up to 2008 .which is under the EOKA topic .

have a nice day Iceman !

Iceman ,

here is the more search :

The Representative of the Maronites' religious group at the House of Representatives Antonis Hadjirousos believes that his competencies at the House must be extended and that problems Maronites must be dealt with.

He also believes that in any future political settlement which will reunite Cyprus , Maronites must be allowed to return to their villages under Greek Cypriot administration. during the 2004 referendum on the Annan plan, a solution plan presented by the then UN Secretary General Kofi Annan, the Maronites supported a settlement based on that plan because it provided for their return to their villages and properties under Greek Cypriot administration, and at the same time upgraded the role of their Representative at the House.
Maronites used to live in Kormakitis, Asomatos, Karpasia and Ayia Maria villages.
The number of Maronites is about five to six thousand and most of were farmers , some of them were working in Nicosia . Most Maronites are now living in the capital Nicosia, while others are in Limassol and Larnaca, on the southern coast, and Paphos on the west, and a couple in villages in the Nicosia district.
Hadjirousos said he met with Ozdil Nami, adviser to Turkish Cypriot leader Mehmet Ali Talat, as well as UN representatives, and expressed the Maronites' wish to secure the provisions of the Annan plan for the return of the Maronites to their homes and properties, adding that he will outline these same views to President Christofias.

Hadjirousos pointed out he is in the ROC parliment Representatives of religious groups do not contribute to the legislative work. ''We stand there without a voice, without a vote,''

Representatives participate in the Committee on Education but still do not have the right to vote but merely observe without intervening.
He noted that even issues that concern the Maronites exclusively have to be raised by other members of parliament, and referred to a recent example which has to do with the preservation of the Maronites' language.

Hadjirousos explained that the language is ancient Arabic similar to Aramaic, spoken two thousand years ago in the Middle East, and is in danger of being lost, since it is not taught or used in Cyprus.


during our searches we found out these information which has been made by Chryso Hadjidemetriou
University of Fribourg, Switzerland .

Kormakiti Maronite Arabic (henceforth abbreviated as KMA) is spoken by a
minority group, the Kormakiti Maronites, in Cyprus where the official
languages are Greek and Turkish (with the local varieties of Greek and
Turkish being the everyday languages). The Kormakiti Maronites belong to
the Cypriot Maronite community which is a Catholic community. The name
‘Maronite’ does not designate the ethnic or national origin of the community
(Dau 1984: 9).
Currently, there are approximately 4,650 Cypriot Maronites living in the
government-controlled area of Cyprus of which one thousand nine hundred
fifty are Kormakiti Maronites .

(European Charter for Regional or Minority
Languages 2006: 7).

The first Maronites possibly arrived in Cyprus in the
seventh century (Varnava 2002), with a further three waves of Maronite
migration occurring by the thirteenth centuries AD (Hourani 1998: 1). So,
KMA and Cypriot Greek (henceforth, abbreviated as CG) have had the
potential for contact ever since.

Before the 1974 Turkish invasion, the Maronites were located in four villages
in the northern part of Cyprus, Kormakitis, Asomatos, Karpasia and Ayia
Marina. In only one of these four villages, Kormakitis, were the Maronites
bilingual in CG and KMA. Inhabitants of the other three Maronite villages
were monolingual CG speakers, although there is no record of when the
speakers shifted from Arabic to CG. After the Turkish invasion, the
majority of Maronites from all four villages were scattered around the
unoccupied part of the island, abandoning their villages in the occupied
north. Kormakiti Maronites share CG with other Maronites and with
Greek Cypriots. However, the identity of each group does not follow the
same lines of delimitation as the languages. Kormakiti Maronites like to
distinguish themselves from the Greek Cypriots as far as religion is
concerned; however, they have not shown any desire for alienation from CG
or the Greek Cypriots. The linguistic integration of the Kormakiti
Maronites into the Greek Cypriot population clearly demonstrates that CG
is their first language.
(Source: Hadjidemetriou: forthcoming).

ARABIC, CYPRIOT SPOKEN: a language of Cyprus

SIL code: ACY
ISO 639-2: sem

Population:1,300 speakers out of 6,000 in the Cypriot Maronite ethnic group, 140 Maronites in Kormatiki, 80 to 100 in Limassol, the rest in the Maronite community in Nicosia.

Region :Kormakiti, one of 4 Maronite villages in the mountains of northern Cyprus, and in refugee communities in Nicosia and Limassol.

Classification:Afro-Asiatic, Semitic, Central, South, Arabic.

Comments :No diglossia with Standard Arabic. Those in Kormatiki are bilingual in Greek or possibly Turkish. Those in southern Cyprus are bilingual in Greek. All speakers over 30. 140 mainly elderly in Kormatiki. A hybrid language with roots in the Arabic of both the Anatolia and the Levant. Many borrowings from Syriac and Greek. People are called 'Maronites.' Christian: Maronite Catholic.

Source:
http://www.ethnologue.com/14/show_language.asp?code=ACY

more search will come later on .

[Vuryek]

Dr.V.!, i kiss you, but do not be offended, maybe there is a difference between a TC and a Turkish Cypriot.

before the British, my village was not "mixed" yet my neighbour was Turkish, the same neighbour over a hundred years. we were more than a socialised society, we were as village dwellers Great Cooperators, life for all of us was idealic. i know the injustice that you speak, and i know that we must demonstrate as his island's dwellers a will which represents to Humanity something for its betterment having an esteem which can be emulated.

our efforts at social engineering has brought us to the point where the words Bizonal, and Bicommunal must be clearly defined so that their Principal can sustain for us a better way of living. We must think futuristicly, hanges to our demographics as a People, and as Persons will lead to more unproductive unrest. Our State must be strong if we expect it to represent us as a Global partner, and to defend our Individual Rights. it is possible therefore, for two National Assemblies to provide as majorities the service which both must complete by a Standard set by all persons as Cypriots in the legislature (or three, I have always suggested that Maronites nee this recognition to sustain themselves, as well)

...read the Manifesto.

and what about enclaves?
how can we end the isolation which will always be a possibility, with a "border",how do weoffer communities. "Turk and/or Greek a recognition that theirdisplacement was not Just? How can we develop the island so that we can enjoy the services that thes communities can provide in a rational manner which has some harmony in its progress? how willother communites grow as the furture may bring peace in the middle east, growth from an African population mobile, now free from hunger and disease. are we able? is our culture of inclusiveness "ending" with our Turkishness an exclusion to our Greekness mutually.

...that sounds like a sorry bit of history to me.

the question is zan, in reply to your choice (but not you in particular)

can you live with something completely different, something like what i have proposed, if it is the choice, where you cannot have Partition, but you are closer to your taxdollar, having self-representation for yourself in your community, as a Cypriot voting as equals, in a single manner, thricely from seperate slates, for an Independant canditate to represent them in the Lower House, as well as one Turkish Cypriot and one Greek Cypriot the political Parties provide as candidates to win in an Upper House having an equal number of chairs to seat them. but this machine is not functional and this is a long sentance, tough not beiable to edit...

if you cannot have "two" governments, or the island torn in two, ...

Repulsewarrior

I hope I will be Dr. one day.

Thanks for your friendly and honest post. Since I am not familiar enough with English there will be misunderstandings.

Your irony about “mixed” villages was perfect. It is not so old, but nobody remembers that there was not much national separation before 1950. Actually we have some records that there were “mixed” trade unions without being aware of they are “mixed”, which was written in Drushotis’s book, EOKA.

I think we need more sociological analysis about our societies to design a more proper solution because all communities have been damaged during the geopolitical games of other countries which they have been playing on Cyprus. Thus, we have an unnatural division, which have also caused unnatural differences, and unnatural wounds on our social structure. These wounds are the price of our mistakes.

Think the TC have been paying the biggest price. They believed that they have “TRNC” but since approximately %40 of North is Turkish military area, they have had to stay in %60 and stay away from rest %40. They didn’t care about that because they had lands of GC’s and economical “support” of Turkey. (Note: 20 years ago it was a taboo to say that “Turkey is paying our money”). They believed they will have a real economy, tried to put up factories or use what GC left behind but in a small time Turkey first put quota than She have put embargoes to Turkish Cypriot Products. Shortly after the “TRNC” has started to import everything, what it can produce, and these substitute goods of Turkey killed the production of “TRNC”. All TC factories bankrupt. Then it came to TC banks. Many of TC banks collapsed during 1996-1998 economic crises. There are still unproved information about that “TRNC” leadership made them collapse deliberately, in order to import Turkey’s Banks. Somehow they couldn’t beat TC cooperatives so 3 years ago “TRNC” leadership made new laws to demolish them. Meantime have start to get more settlers, especially when Denktash and Turkey start to feel the “wind of change” which can effect elections. They have granted id pass to Turkey population, which means they don’t need passport to enter “TRNC”. They gave thousands of TRNC citizenship in last two decades in order to control elections. These settlers start to settle in old Villages. Now TC hasn’t got more that several villages. These settlers also took the old city centers, which TC left.

During 1990s TC start to feel that they have been losing many things. With the unnatural history and unnatural nationalism education TC have started to be something else than Cypriot. TC have been resisting to be “TURK” for many years but because of our real Culture has been taken from us (Once Denktash said “There is no such thing as Cypriot, the only thing that is Cypriot is donkeys!” and “Forget about Cypriot traditional dances and learn Turkish traditional dances”) and that “believed TRNC” lands have been started to taken from TC, a serious socio-cultural id problem has appeared.

And now Turkish investors are buying all lands to build hotels or estates, “TRNC” leadership is also selling historical areas to them. In courts nobody can touch to settlers, many simple trials are withdrawn by order of Turkish embassy. Turkey are trying to bring fanatic religionist Islamic education to North. Now, everybody recently have start to realize, “T.R.N.C” in not real and never been theirs. “TRNC” leadership has never been a leadership; it was only a group of servants. The elections have only been racetrack of servants. Even parliament building is not real, it was Dianellos Tobacco Factory before it has been stolen.

I know it took too long my friend but these are summary of damages which effects socio psychology of TC. Thus in order to create health design, we must consider about all this kind of wounds. Yes I can live with others under the Unitarian Government but I cannot talk for rest of TC…. yet! It is certain that all these years TC have been fooled by Turkey and his servants that they have gain “self determination” / ” sovereignty”, but in reality they haven’t. The schools have indicated that “self dominance “ is most important thing, but TC never get it. So with realizing all reality, this complex has grown. When I consider with this perspective, 2 assembly parliament under one real government may be a good start for many things and of course this government must include Maronites (I knowit is not enough to pay our sins).

I want to note that I am completely against "two seperated" govenmnets.

Already In this 30 years of "TRNC" hallusination we alredy tried that. We cannot make seperated

[Vuryek]

I want to thank Pantheman and Kikapu. You both really made me happy.

Especially Kikapu, thanks for your informing post. It will help me much, while considering posts and replying them.

I agree with you about all of your points. Recent system of "TRNC" absolutely was designed to create an empty minded young society, who will never try to learn how to work, under the domination of fascism. Many “nationalist” TC, who are really aware of many things, think that this unnatural lazy-richness system will never last because of needs of Turkey. Some of them (like Denktash family ) really don’t care what will happen in future, if they have “enough” money. Every day we face with new threats of assimilation, some of them are easy to reveal and oppose, like fanatic religion education, and some of them are not easy to reveal like, importing trade unions of Turkey. And sadly, our worst weakness is the education system, which prevent us to educate others effectively, because we cannot control it but fortunately they don’t know how to control it also

I am not hopeless because we have chance to reveal and learn reality, more than last two decades

Thank you again.

Vuryek,
Could you elaborate a little more on this point of importing trade unions from Turkey.
As far as I am aware, the Turkish Cypriot trade unions have been at the vanguard of the new movement that has begun to oppose the way Talat, Soyer and their cronies have become pulled into the corrupt mechanisms of the TRNC and have become little more than puppets of Ankara, and that has started to resurrect the "This Country is Ours" platform in the shape of the "Peace Platform". In other words, it seems to me that the trade union movement is playing a very progressive role in Turkish Cypriot politics, so your statement surprises me somewhat.

Yes you are absolutely right about TC trade unios. What I tried to tell before is impot of Turkish trade unions, which is a very recent event. (Not more than 2 monts) Their statement was simply "to solve problems what TC trade unions cannot solve and bring ease to "TRNC" community" In my opinion it is clear that that have came to take TC trade unions place.

[Vuryek]

I want to thank Pantheman and Kikapu. You both really made me happy.

Especially Kikapu, thanks for your informing post. It will help me much, while considering posts and replying them.

I agree with you about all of your points. Recent system of "TRNC" absolutely was designed to create an empty minded young society, who will never try to learn how to work, under the domination of fascism. Many “nationalist” TC, who are really aware of many things, think that this unnatural lazy-richness system will never last because of needs of Turkey. Some of them (like Denktash family ) really don’t care what will happen in future, if they have “enough” money. Every day we face with new threats of assimilation, some of them are easy to reveal and oppose, like fanatic religion education, and some of them are not easy to reveal like, importing trade unions of Turkey. And sadly, our worst weakness is the education system, which prevent us to educate others effectively, because we cannot control it but fortunately they don’t know how to control it also

I am not hopeless because we have chance to reveal and learn reality, more than last two decades

Thank you again.

Vuryek,
Could you elaborate a little more on this point of importing trade unions from Turkey.
As far as I am aware, the Turkish Cypriot trade unions have been at the vanguard of the new movement that has begun to oppose the way Talat, Soyer and their cronies have become pulled into the corrupt mechanisms of the TRNC and have become little more than puppets of Ankara, and that has started to resurrect the "This Country is Ours" platform in the shape of the "Peace Platform". In other words, it seems to me that the trade union movement is playing a very progressive role in Turkish Cypriot politics, so your statement surprises me somewhat.

Perhaps it is because the TC trade unions are playing a progressive role that they have to be infiltrated and taken over,Tim...It is an open practice of the AKP in Turkey to infiltrate and control the trade unions...It is realatively easy there because the left and the unions were gutted by the 1970 and 1980 coup d'etats...I imagine it would take somewhat more time to tender the TC unions ineffective,but time and dirty tricks imported from Turkey are what they got on the Government side in the trnc...

I know what you mean. The way that the four young people who this thread is devoted two had computers and books confiscated in police raids that were really acts of breaking and entering at a time when they were under lock and key - according to the press after having been caught red-handed writing anti-Turkish army graffiti but according to other sources after they were first detained for not having ID cards about their person (since when have people been detained for that in the TRNC?) and then having the graffiti charge imposed on them - smacks very much of 12 September Turkey. Strange, I have always felt that the TRNC was a place governed by the rule of law, even if it is the "TRNC" with its "law".

Sorry Mr. Tim but I thing something has got mixed. I dont know if you read the official statement and interwiev that I post before. That 2 groups are differend. First group arrested 3 weeks ago, and they didn't show any id. Second group arrested last week as red handed (actually it was not red handed) and they had been kept arrested for 4 days.

Law and "TRNC"? really? You have to see a settlment trial

[zan]

First this:

I keep going on about massacres when they happened old man and not that period....I have asked you to tell us all what the conditions were like for TCs in that period but you ignore that fact because it suits your twisted views. I have told you about the packages we sent to my family because they had nothing and could not earn enough to feed themselves and you ignore it because it does not fit into your plan.......


You bring along a fake that s Vuryek and expect to knock me out with one blow........You are the biggest fake on this Forum old chap and it will take a hell of a lot more than you to knock anyone out. You just provide me with more ammo and incentive to crush your lies and half truths.........My spirit is higher than ever Miltiades. You will never break that. Nice try though!!!!!!!!

I see, thats all what you know. You can only talk about "you ,me, he, she" bot nothing about Cyprus. All you know is how to insult, and to create 3rd class conspiracy theories... You are obsessive about speculative topics because you stuck on some events whic occured 1960-1923 but you dont know anything about the rest. History is not only that events. You want to know something really fake? Your age.

I started with you, because you stated that boring and empty conspiracy theory: “Someone has put on these children to write these things to walls”. That’s because you cannot tolerate new generations to be different. You think every new generation must learn a single sided, wrong history and be a simple minded fascist adult. And I say no. We are revealing and teaching everything that we can, so some of them can save their minds from a muggy and dark history thus they can live, think and decide freely.

I am not talking political riddles. High percentage of what I said is REALITY, which has references, sometimes I combine them with my ideas. Because of that reality, you cannot answer anything, you just attack to my age, my personality, trying to prove that you know everything without saying something which makes sense and usually you just say “you don’t understand anything because of riddles”, sorry but I am not a professor of literature, my sentences are quite simple and if you don’t understand them it is your problem.

You are still yakking about solution. I said many times it is not a 2 words child game. You cannot pass everything with just saying “I want a blue solution with some vanilla and chocolate”. Since the problem is “social”, “solution” is also social and they have same major and minor topics. If you want to talk about solution you must talk about Land, Settlers, Government System, Economy, Education, Health, Transporting, Religion …. All of these are huge topics which also have many subtopics. You want to talk about solution? So select one topic and open it as a new issue, so we all can tell our ideas about it and learn others ideas. You first please, enlighten me.

My line is neither Greek nor Turk, as you see I am trying to create ideas from reality. There are enough faults for every community. It doesn’t mean that I believe GC history is clean because of you did not let us to speak anything else.

You want to be balanced? You said “…on a plate and an insult to those that died defending it.” What about the people who died to protect old President Makarios and ROC against coup? I know you don’t care because it is already “Makarios = EOKA = EOKAB = all GC = GREEKS = past = present..” for you. Because of it was not (!) your government and president you have fled to UK and start to throw third class demagogy to Cyprus.

Yes, my kind is not majority but your kind is not majority also, you just cannot tolerate and try to discourage others. You know majority of us want peace and solution somehow, especially different than “TRNC” already it is not a solution, everybody knows.

I can offer you something, you started this “you and me struggle” so let it finish here and from now on let us speak what we know and what we think, not what we are and what we do. We are not important, since reality and ideas are important. I am not going to answer any "you, me, your nose.." style senseless post anymore, I am going to only discuss about reality and ideas. If you don't like what I said about history, just find some references which include counter information. If you dont like my ideas, just offer reasons and yours. But if you continue to offer absolute demagogy against reality, I will only just smile to you.

And then this:
Vuryek wrote:

zan wrote:
Off to work now.....

I know them personally.

Good start And a few final things before I accept a truce. It was you that came here firing shots randomly sir and not me.

I am one person working alone to save my country from Greek domination....Nothing else. I tried joining a group and found them ultra nationalistic and left. I am passionate about a fair deal what ever form that takes so don't doubt my intentions. I have no problem in acknowledging our falts but so far you and everyone here have slated Turkey and the TCs. When are you expecting the balance you promised???

You also questioned my age......I have no real way of proving it without telling you who I am and that is not going to happen. I have been fortunate to meet three people from this Forum and although they may be jealous of my good looks and young complexion (Sorry Halil and Deniz ) I am sure they can verify my age....Or was your comment more subtle than that???






Now that is over...The arena is yours...Lets see where you are going with this.