Cyprus-Forum.com

[zan]

My apologies in advance of being rude to you Zombie. WTH has been saying for over two years on this forum that Cyprus belongs to the Cypriots. WTH has been screaming for the last two and half years that his motherland is CYPRUS.
Now you have the audacity to come on and say that YOU , the biggest bloody partitionist , one who has his face embedded in Turkeys arse , YOU WANT CYPRUS FOR ALL CYPRIOTS AND MILITIADES WANTS IT ONLY FOR THE GREEKS !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!> You my friend is bigger PLONKER than I once though , not only a bloody plonker but a clown.
Miltiades has stood for an independent Cyprus , no majorities no minorities , equal rights for all and ALL occupying troops out of CYPRUS. You are are making an arsehole of your self.
I have had , and still do , to endure insults from both sides because of my position , I have been called a traitor , I have suffered the insults even receiving telephone calls from nasty G/Cs and you have the audacity to say I want Cyprus ONLY for Greeks.
Well let Admin ban , but you are one arsehole mate , the biggest !

This is what your offending post said referring to myself :

"""" We are not about to give up our island to the "RoC" no matter which little trick you try to play. Your CYprus belongs to Greeks...My Cyprus belongs to CYpriots who respect the original Zurich agreement or another deal along UN lines. """

Why do you feel the need to apologise for something you have done from the first day you posted Miltiades? There is no need. Name calling does not effect me one bit. I like to join in sometimes because it keeps the mind working.

I have come to realise that you have no idea what will happen to the TCs on the island if you get your way mate. I called you an assassin a few times but I shall have to stop that because you are just a fool that cannot think more than one step ahead. Cyprus will become just another Greek island if you get your way and you are too blind to see it. Another island that I will not be able to associate with. Another island that will wipe my involvement of the face the earth. Well I am glad to say that that will not happen.

Your one dishonesty is not telling us exactly what you mean by "Allowing us our rigts under the Zurich agreement". You have twisted and turned in the hope that you will not have to because it has maybe made you realise that if you were to divulge this detail that those TCs you claim to be on your side will tell you the truth. You don't want to gear it so you even lie to yourself. just thank god that there are people who can see the truth and are not by you like lemmings over a cliff whilst you stand to one side waving them on.

I do not want to get in the way of a good argy-bargy,but,let me ask you this Zan: Do you really think Turkey is in Cyprus solely to protect the TCs??? And,do you really not worry about losing your unique Turkish Cypriot identity via assimilation with Turkey??? And don't you really think we can make a fair go of putting our Cypriotness forward and become one amongst equals???

Am I talking to the same Birkibrisli that I have been talking to for nearly three years. We have been through this a hundred times and I have said that I have no other choice and besides, do not see the Turks as enemies like you do. I saw a most horrific accident in Cyprus where a motor cyclist hit a pedestrian, Pakistani guy, and tore off his leg right in front of our eyes. TC and Turk stopped to the man and took care of the injured people waiting for the ambulance. They are people like you and me so this attitude of yours is really getting up my nose. The world is mixing at an alarming rate........I use the general term of alarming but I should have said fantastic because I think it should.....This is not about who you live with but right of self determination in the face of a hostile take over by the GC administration.

As for Cypriotness.....Who has offered you Cypriotness in the "RoC".....How many of the countless TCs, that some would have us believe live in the "RoC" are represented today. Perhaps there is a line in the Greek national anthem that I might of missed or a small speck in the Greek flag that has a crescent and star. Perhaps when viewing the GC rallies in London I missed the TCs marching along because I was too busty looking at the bearded trainee priests sponsored by the church to march under the Greek flag. Where is our representation in a "RoC" that says it represents all Cypriots. Are they in the tourists gides...OXI.....Are they in the history books...OXI....Are they in Wikipedia that GR is corrupting at an "ALARMING" rate....OXI, OXI, OXI. If iyt where left to you and Miltiades we would be gone in 60 seconds and never seen as part of Cyprus again. Just another minority in my own country. Not a home but another country that I sort of have connections with. It ain't gonna happen Bir so give it up. At best it is a two state solution with self governing at its centre. The TC people will not have it any other way. At best it is recognition for the TRNC which will leave you to chose which country you want to live in and leave us to our own means.

[zan]

really thanks halil

Mr. Zan, it seems that you consider that “old president Makarios = EOKA = EOKAB = all GC = past =present...” This kind of a perception is highly emotional and has no relationship with reality.

The old ROC partnership was a damaged partnership, which created to collapse. Both sides betrayed that partnership, but your views show that you believe that “only GC did everything”. I am not sure that if you know the truth but you are lying or all of these are because you don’t know anything. You may believe that “you know everything”, I don’t blame you, it is a common Cypriot sickness, but nobody can “know everything”. Every day, curious minority of Cyprus work to reveal some more truths, and our latest reveals show that Turkish Cypriot Community has a really dark history. Did you read the confesses of Mehmet Ali Tremeseli (Ilkman), who was the one of the most important man of TMT? Besides British tactics, which they used us against GC demonstrators as oxidary police, it shows we had started first fight with trying to bomb GC under the order of Dr. Burhan Nalbantoglu. Since a single event is not important, I have to add that, as Tremesheli said, we have a huge collection of these events. Since the people like you, who like to talk about single old events, which are especially violent ones, and don’t want to see whole composition of all issues, I want to add one small thing from the book of Mr. Glafcos Clerides (1993-2003) which includes many official letters. “Mr. Denktash, we can change list of our losses since 1960. As you will see, you are the winner…”
Nobody said GC have a “clean” history, but we need to criticize ourselves first, then the others.

Mr. Miltiades, as I said before we, the curious people who try to learn, are minority. But if you are asking the population who wants “re-uniting and peace” they are not minority. They are a collection of people and have a wide perspective of solution ideas from confederation to unitary government. (Pros: Population of these people are increasing every day. Cons: 1- Most of them still fear to act against Turkey and still fear the negative reactions (many people still believe that most GC don’t want us) of Greek Cypriots and they are still unaware of hidden reality of Cyprus problem. 2- Turkey is assimilating us every day so we don’t have much time.) Although the Cypriots who support Grey wolfs and integration are minority among Cypriots, Cypriots themselves are minority among settlers. One last thing, many people think that nationalists as UBP and DP do not want any kind of peace but as Serden Hoca said, who was the one of the council member of UBP, “if circumstances will change in future, we will willingly change out shape according to peace” and now he is in technical committees an workgroups.
Many people are aware “TRNC” is neither real for Turkey, nor for rest of the World but social personality problems which caused by assimilation tactics of Turkey, creates new problems, makes population selfish, force them to decide for their short term profits and open new gates for new conspiracies. Official history still invades many Cypriots brain even its lack of reality and this system which makes us lazy, prevent us to learn more than what we have told before.
The Turkish Cypriots, who escaped from Cyprus and mostly living in UK or Australia have the worst situation about that. They have an unreal melancholy of “TRNC” which cause them to reject new information and live with heroic myths, which make them to think that “they are first class Turk, first class Muslim, first class Mujahedeen” without knowing the meaning of these terms. They are already screams of assimilated past, in other countries.
Anyway, we may lost this war in future, Turkey may gain the complete control, in that condition so some of us will escape to Europe or Australia as before, some of us will escape to Turkey, some of us will escape to south, and some of us will try to live with sad reality. In such condition all TC will disappear already. That time, The GC who don’t want to live with us will have to live with sad reality because there will be no TC, which they have historical and cultural connection with, there will be no TC leadership to argue with, there will be no chance to make agreement with Turkey who will be integrated North of Cyprus, there will be no chance to go back to home and GC will have to live with ghosts of past.
I think especially nationalist GC friends have to think again, they can accept us, fight with us against suppression, order and military of Turkey, live with us, learn with us, build with us a new future which is independent from the bloody past, or they can discriminate and do not accept us, let us to disappear with North Part of Cyprus. Many GC and other Europeans unaware. They believe Turkey cannot move against International laws and cannot take risk which will integration bring. That’s because they don’t compare history of Turkey with possible future circumstances. Turkey has nothing to lose and recent time is the best time for send them back.

It certainly seems to be a Cypriot affliction that effects us all......

My Vuryek

You have been here five minutes and are already an expert in how I think and what I have said in nearly three years of posting. I sir, have been through every permeation there is in trying to find a way through the intransigent heads of the people on this site. I have done what you are doing in your dedicated post to Miltiades, and asked for talks to reflect the present but have faced a barrage of racist remarks and a brick wall when it comes giving an inch where it counts. The self proclaimed moderate that is Miltiades will not even give an inch but wants us to give up everything and leave the "RoC" to run our lives. I have even taken the advise of another self proclaimed moderate as in Birkibrisli and asked for our rights under the Zurich agreement to be returned to us and still, as you can see....Nothing.

When I first discovered this site it was full of hate and disrespect for us and Turkey. It was racist and bigoted and not a Miltiades existed to moderate their behavior. I came along with a few other TCs and all of a sudden we had moderates. You want me to be critical of my self then perhaps you can show me where there are such people on the other side that has done just that. We have ONE person here that goes by the name of Bananiot and is more than balanced out by Birkibrisli. I would even quote you the name of Kikapu but he is just an enigma and not worth the paper he wipes his bum with. I have always accepted our wrongs but not at the expense of ignoring theirs. Why the hell should I...The are more than capable of doing that and do on a minute to minute basis. If you are not in favour of balance then please say so then we know where we stand. We have been patient for over 40 years dear friend. We have been made to look like the only guilty ones in tis problem and you want me to stop now that we are actually being heard. I am all in favour of talks and a fair solution Mr Vuryak but am not in favour of waiting for the GCs to give it to us. We have waited long enough. It is only fair that we are straight with them and demand our rights in Cyprus.You and those that are trying to run before you can walk and are taking on Turkey before you tackle the GC problem are asking for trouble. You see them as the cause of your problems in lazy TCs and the economy and to a point they are but the bigger culprit is the isolation and the embargoes my friend. If we had not been held under siege for so long the Turkey would not have had the chance to entrench themselves in Cyprus. I ask you to stake your claim and tell us what solution you are after and you double talk and give me nothing but criticise me and what I want. You ignore the fact that long before any TMT was formed the terrorist group of EOKA was formed and long before Taksim there was ENOSIS. We talked then and got the Zurich agreement.....What are talking about now....What fair solution are you after......How will it differ from the Zurich agreement and what guarantees will you want that they are strictly adhered to. OR...Are you telling me that you are in agreement with Miltiades and you will accept the "RoC" as it stands and give up your rights in Cyprus...Lets have it Mr Vuryak.......Stop beating about the bush and give us something tangible. I am and have always been open to suggestions.......FAIR suggestions......

[zan]

Vuryek,
You are a real breath of fresh air on this forum. Please keep your views coming.

Tim

Just asking so don't bite my head off...Have you said the same thing to Bananiot at any time??????

[Oracle]

Unfortunately for the GCs it is the "TC"s and Turkey that make the biggest noise. Not just from their sheer ever-expanding numbers; amounting to no less than 80 Million on our doorstep ever ready to strike and attempt to destroy us with their many tools, be they propaganda, bombs or strategically placed / infiltrated Turks masquerading as so called "TC"s.

We GCs are but the few, numbering less than a million, desperately hanging on to our morally right course, quietly negotiating and shifting our position to satisfy the ever hungry parasitic cuckoos in our midst that have brought NOTHING but Loud and Noisy destruction to our island since they made their slaughterhouse course upon our shores.

And Zan has the audacity to say they are only now being heard ... who did the British listen to all the time if not the Turks and "TC"s? They certainly did not listen to the GCs either when they wanted Enosis or self-determination. It did not matter what we asked for ... we were not heard ... only the ever-demanding Turk-TCs. And now they have what they always aimed for, our Island, occupied ...... still they cry MORE!

[zan]

Unfortunately for the GCs it is the "TC"s and Turkey that make the biggest noise. Not just from their sheer ever-expanding numbers; amounting to no less than 80 Million on our doorstep ever ready to strike and attempt to destroy us with their many tools, be they propaganda, bombs or strategically placed / infiltrated Turks masquerading as so called "TC"s.

We GCs are but the few, numbering less than a million, desperately hanging on to our morally right course, quietly negotiating and shifting our position to satisfy the ever hungry parasitic cuckoos in our midst that have brought NOTHING but Loud and Noisy destruction to our island since they made their slaughterhouse course upon our shores.

And Zan has the audacity to say they are only now being heard ... who did the British listen to all the time if not the Turks and "TC"s? They certainly did not listen to the GCs either when they wanted Enosis or self-determination. It did not matter what we asked for ... we were not heard ... only the ever-demanding Turk-TCs. And now they have what they always aimed for, our Island, occupied ...... still they cry MORE!

Really A while back you and your side kick GR wee saying that the brits were responsible for divide and rule .....At least be consistent with your lies Oracle...You are letting yourself down...Poor girlie!!!

[miltiades]

A direct question to Vuryek , doesn't have to reply but it would help to clarify a number of points.
I have always believed that a large percentage of T/Cs consider as their motherland first and foremost to be Cyprus. On this forum we have Kikapu and Birkibrisly who have openly stated that their motherland is none other than my motherland , the island of Cyprus . My allegiance is to this island and all of its people . I have challenged numerous individuals in the past from both sides , and still do today .
My question is are you just a tiny minority amongst the T/Cs or do many share your views. You come across as a highly educated individual .I'm 62 years old and I'm proud to say I know many T/Cs who share mine and your views , do you also know of G/Cs who have same or similar views to your self.

Should you not want to answer you can PM confidentially , I shall not divulge on the forum .

Thanks Mr. Miltiades
Of course I know many GC who have same or similar views with me. Already we are trying to do many things together. This is our struggle, not only one community's

I'm pleased to note your comments , let us hope that more and more G/Cs and T/Cs come together , respect each others fears and concerns for the future and put behind them the terrible events of the past for the sake of our future generations of Cypriots to come. I know of many T/Cs as well as G/Cs who share my views , whose love of Cyprus is unconditional embracing all Cypriots .
You have gained my respect and admiration for your wise views .

[Vuryek]

It certainly seems to be a Cypriot affliction that effects us all......

My Vuryek

You have been here five minutes and are already an expert in how I think and what I have said in nearly three years of posting. I sir, have been through every permeation there is in trying to find a way through the intransigent heads of the people on this site. I have done what you are doing in your dedicated post to Miltiades, and asked for talks to reflect the present but have faced a barrage of racist remarks and a brick wall when it comes giving an inch where it counts. The self proclaimed moderate that is Miltiades will not even give an inch but wants us to give up everything and leave the "RoC" to run our lives. I have even taken the advise of another self proclaimed moderate as in Birkibrisli and asked for our rights under the Zurich agreement to be returned to us and still, as you can see....Nothing.

When I first discovered this site it was full of hate and disrespect for us and Turkey. It was racist and bigoted and not a Miltiades existed to moderate their behavior. I came along with a few other TCs and all of a sudden we had moderates. You want me to be critical of my self then perhaps you can show me where there are such people on the other side that has done just that. We have ONE person here that goes by the name of Bananiot and is more than balanced out by Birkibrisli. I would even quote you the name of Kikapu but he is just an enigma and not worth the paper he wipes his bum with. I have always accepted our wrongs but not at the expense of ignoring theirs. Why the hell should I...The are more than capable of doing that and do on a minute to minute basis. If you are not in favour of balance then please say so then we know where we stand. We have been patient for over 40 years dear friend. We have been made to look like the only guilty ones in tis problem and you want me to stop now that we are actually being heard. I am all in favour of talks and a fair solution Mr Vuryak but am not in favour of waiting for the GCs to give it to us. We have waited long enough. It is only fair that we are straight with them and demand our rights in Cyprus.You and those that are trying to run before you can walk and are taking on Turkey before you tackle the GC problem are asking for trouble. You see them as the cause of your problems in lazy TCs and the economy and to a point they are but the bigger culprit is the isolation and the embargoes my friend. If we had not been held under siege for so long the Turkey would not have had the chance to entrench themselves in Cyprus. I ask you to stake your claim and tell us what solution you are after and you double talk and give me nothing but criticise me and what I want. You ignore the fact that long before any TMT was formed the terrorist group of EOKA was formed and long before Taksim there was ENOSIS. We talked then and got the Zurich agreement.....What are talking about now....What fair solution are you after......How will it differ from the Zurich agreement and what guarantees will you want that they are strictly adhered to. OR...Are you telling me that you are in agreement with Miltiades and you will accept the "RoC" as it stands and give up your rights in Cyprus...Lets have it Mr Vuryak.......Stop beating about the bush and give us something tangible. I am and have always been open to suggestions.......FAIR suggestions......

Dear Mr. Zan

As I said before this is not a mathematical problem to just say answer. Social sciences are always complicated enough to have more than one true answers. Since our problem is a social problem, I can just identify the way. The question that "which solution will we go?" will get answer after we get real solution road but we are not even aware of that road.

I cannot just say "true solution is this one, catch it!", nobody can do it! We have to discuss to find it. But if you need a non detailed idea: “A federation which will go to a Unitarian government may be a good solution”

I gave answer of many things, so you need to read them again.

But I can say what is not a solution or way to search for a solution. Believing that “you build up a new discriminative, fascist nation on somebody else’s past, land, life” is not a solution. Believing that “everybody has right to separate themselves as what nationality they want” and “seeking separated rights for themselves just for fun” are not a way to seek solution. Believing that “what you have got by war is yours” is not a way for solution. Believing that “every 100 people can create a new nation” is not a solution.( So, lets call Lebanon as a guarantor of Marionettes, call Armenia as a guarantor of Armenian Cypriots, divide Cyprus parliament to four and put its name democracy of intelligence(!) ) Believing that “you have right to hope international reorganization for last barbarianism of 20th century” is not a way for solution. Believing that “militarist games of Turkey can be recognized as a solution” is not a solution.

I recommend you to read much about TMT, EOKA, TAXIM, Enosis. The date and description difference was not as you implied. It was not a black and white, bad and good game which was played between TC and GC. History is not that simple.

You are talking about agreements… fine. But why don’t you play fair and say truths. Turkey was not only guarantor of Turkish Cypriots, It was guarantor of whole ROC. Turkey had right to intervene only when there was a circumstance which can be a threat for ROC, and there was that kind of situation. What Turkey did? It has come at 1974, betrayed the agreements what they singed, betrayed ROC, betrayed GC, betrayed TC, created a new “county”, created a new “government”, put its name “TRNC” , this violation of human rights have being continued for more than 30 years, and you wait for International Arena to give up about isolation and the embargoes?

I am a balanced person, I am just arguing with you because you haven’t let us to discuss anything else with GC yet. As I said before, nobody is angel here.

[Vuryek]

Vuryek,
You are a real breath of fresh air on this forum. Please keep your views coming.

Tim

Just asking so don't bite my head off...Have you said the same thing to Bananiot at any time??????

You want to be fair? Why dont you support other demostors who want to give Maronites, their homes back? If this is only a TC GC problem why they suffer because of us? If there "must "be a national seperation, why they havent got rights? They are already disappering because of this stupid problem. You want to really protect someone? Protect Maronites first, because they have taken the biggest damage.

[Oracle]

Unfortunately for the GCs it is the "TC"s and Turkey that make the biggest noise. Not just from their sheer ever-expanding numbers; amounting to no less than 80 Million on our doorstep ever ready to strike and attempt to destroy us with their many tools, be they propaganda, bombs or strategically placed / infiltrated Turks masquerading as so called "TC"s.

We GCs are but the few, numbering less than a million, desperately hanging on to our morally right course, quietly negotiating and shifting our position to satisfy the ever hungry parasitic cuckoos in our midst that have brought NOTHING but Loud and Noisy destruction to our island since they made their slaughterhouse course upon our shores.

And Zan has the audacity to say they are only now being heard ... who did the British listen to all the time if not the Turks and "TC"s? They certainly did not listen to the GCs either when they wanted Enosis or self-determination. It did not matter what we asked for ... we were not heard ... only the ever-demanding Turk-TCs. And now they have what they always aimed for, our Island, occupied ...... still they cry MORE!

Really A while back you and your side kick GR wee saying that the brits were responsible for divide and rule .....At least be consistent with your lies Oracle...You are letting yourself down...Poor girlie!!!

I am consistent.

The "TC"s are the (noisy!) tools!

[Vuryek]

Unfortunately for the GCs it is the "TC"s and Turkey that make the biggest noise. Not just from their sheer ever-expanding numbers; amounting to no less than 80 Million on our doorstep ever ready to strike and attempt to destroy us with their many tools, be they propaganda, bombs or strategically placed / infiltrated Turks masquerading as so called "TC"s.

We GCs are but the few, numbering less than a million, desperately hanging on to our morally right course, quietly negotiating and shifting our position to satisfy the ever hungry parasitic cuckoos in our midst that have brought NOTHING but Loud and Noisy destruction to our island since they made their slaughterhouse course upon our shores.

And Zan has the audacity to say they are only now being heard ... who did the British listen to all the time if not the Turks and "TC"s? They certainly did not listen to the GCs either when they wanted Enosis or self-determination. It did not matter what we asked for ... we were not heard ... only the ever-demanding Turk-TCs. And now they have what they always aimed for, our Island, occupied ...... still they cry MORE!

Really A while back you and your side kick GR wee saying that the brits were responsible for divide and rule .....At least be consistent with your lies Oracle...You are letting yourself down...Poor girlie!!!

I am consistent.

The "TC"s are the (noisy!) tools!

Really? Thanks

This was not the worst insult I have ever heard, but it is worse enough to enter the list.

There are still many real TC, if you dont want to hear them, just close your eyes and ears.

Soon you will see everything but none of them. Then you will realize what is Turk and what was TC.