Cyprus-Forum.com

[zan]

Welcome to the forum Vuryek......


Thank you for your explanation but I must insist that you tell all here your entire views on Cyprus. You are obviously against Turkeys involvement in Cyprus but can you please tell us what your solution will be. It is only fair for all to know so we can cut out any confusion. Thank you in advance.

Dear friend, it is not possible to express “entire views” with 3 paragraphs. Every issue has both independent and related deep details thus if we are curious, our views are changing directly and dynamically related with our learning process. So I think it will be a more honest behaviour to think that we will learn and understand everybody’s views in time. Also, as you know, short and quick statements bring misunderstandings.
You want me to tell you “my solution”, but since solution is a not a kind of mathematical problem we have to accept its sociological, economical, socio-psychological, educational, political sides and you know each side is a kind of deep discussions. But let me explain how Turkey effects these issues with few examples.
If we want to talk about solution, first we have to talk about circumstances to get a provision of what we are capable of. Turkey’s “involvement” brings more criteria to discuss in Cyprus Problem? When we consider that Turkey is a completely separated country who thinks and moves only for itself, you can realize that it brings some unnatural additional criteria, which are not representing us, to our problem. Some of these criteria are completely blocked issues which are created to block solution. I think it is clear that we have less to “discuss” without Turkey’s “polite presence”.
Second, the authorities, whom the world named them as “Turkish Cypriot Leadership” and Turkey named them as “T.R.N.C.”, are neither a “government”, nor a “leadership” even not a simple authority. These servants only represent the orders of Turkey, which comes through Turkish Embassy. Not realistic? Why don’t you compare the speeches of Talat, Ferdi, which they made before their “presidency” and after their “presidency”? Anyone want me to post some examples? How can you explain the difference between Cypriotic speeches and Denktash like speeches of Talat’s and his fellows’s ? How can you explain the flexibility of their ideas which changes with “ideology” of Turkish Government? They become fascist with Grey Wolfs, religionist with AKP (which is present government), militarists with MGK (non changing military government of turkey) and you expect me to say that they are an independent leadership? Nobody can sit on that “TRNC chairs” if they will not follow orders of Turkey... Talat is not representing Cypriots, he is even not representing himself. Once Talat said “Because of the (fascism of) Greek Cypriots, I start to act like Denktash!” Was he talking about our Greek Cypriots who elected Christofias , instead of Papadapulos (sorry for spelling) or was he talking about another parallel world? What a paradox.
If I am wrong then please inform me about why have they brought Turkey’s education system? Why are they still building mosques to everywhere? Why are they trying to bring fanatic religion education to occupied area by both legal and illegal ways? Why have they brought their Turkey’s nationalist trade unions to occupied area? Why have they give permission to destroy ancient ruins, historical places to build up hotels of Turkish developers? Why population of settlers are more than 2 times of Cypriots? (Once Talat said “If we count all military, settlers “our” population can be approximately five hundred thousand”) Why approximately %40 of North Cyprus is military area? Why “Turkish Cypriot courts” cannot touch the settlers? Why every technical committee and working group includes at least 2 nationalist and 1broucrat? Who put them there? Who is paying for the economy of that “TRNC” thing (Once Ferdi Sabit Soyer said that Turkey is paying 500 million YTL for every year)? ... as you know we cannot list all of them today. We call assimilation to this process, and will bring integration.
These circumstances are a clear provision of permanent problem and they can be disappear with “un-involvement” of Turkey and there is no doubt that details and identification of our problem can change without occupation.

Turkey is not occupying Cyprus to save or protect Turkish Cypriots. Turkey is occupying Cyprus only for geopolitics. Everybody understood that schools history books were completely lie, which says “Turkey saved us from monsters and vampires which need to feed with Turks” (Not real? Read the book of Vehbi Zeki Serter). Both books of Makarios Drushotis and Mehmet Ali Tremesheli are high quality proof of what Turkey did between 1955-1974. Many times Turkish organisations killed Turkish Cypriots and blame Greek Cypriots. Turkish Army killed both GC, and TC and we are still talking about involvement of Turkey!
Turkey is not a kind of unresistable force. If we really want, we can send them back. We just need to get our voice higher to make International Arena to hear that even TC don’t want Turkey in Cyprus. We can handle by ourselves.

Could you now explain me why we need Turkey for solution?


And no, ROC is not an occupier. I want to remind you that TC have left ROC parliament and have built a new “"!!??government!!??" under the "!!??protection!!??" of Turkey”.

All very good but you have said nothing that reveals where you stand with regards to the type of solution, you only advocate we rid ourselves of our life jacket and hope for the best.

Without Turkeys financial support and the continuation of isolation how will you solve the economic chaos we would quickly find ourselves in?

Your opinions so far appear to be naive at best and very much up with the utopians who think as long as we all call ourselves Cypriots everything else will fall in place.

Thanks VP for your accurate views and for pointing this post out to me...I missed it with my exchanges with Miltiades.......Both Vuryek and Miltiades are refusing to state their positions on this issue. We need a precise answer from both of you please gentlemen.....

My position and that of our new friend are on par , we are both Cypriots who want to be free from foreign domination. We both believe in the right of the indigenous T/C Cypriots to share our nation as equal Cypriots whose allegiance is to our nation of Cyprus , unlike the two of you who are committed to the absorption of a part of Cyprus by Turkey and the permanent extinction of the Turkish Cypriot.
Our new friend has ruffled your feathers , he lives in the occupied part and just as the four youngsters recently in the news he wants his nation to be rid of the occupying troops.
For his sake I hope he is careful and does not insult "Turkishness " we need more true Cypriot voices and less Grey Wolves shrieks.

All I can say Miltiades is that you are easily fooled.

[Floda]

Be extra cautious should it ever become necessary for you to bend down to tie your shoelaces Miltiades, with an attitude like yours, one could never be sure on which side of the fence you sit [or bend over].

It would appear that your opinions have a tendency to lean towards whichever side seems to be in the ascendancy, such an attitude may result in your being caught in a position which might embarrass you.

Tie your laces furtively my friend, you can never be sure of who may be standing behind you. IMHO.

[miltiades]

:lol: Be extra cautious should it ever become necessary for you to bend down to tie your shoelaces Miltiades, with an attitude like yours, one could never be sure on which side of the fence you sit [or bend over].

It would appear that your opinions have a tendency to lean towards whichever side seems to be in the ascendancy, such an attitude may result in your being caught in a position which might embarrass you.

Tie your laces furtively my friend, you can never be sure of who may be standing behind you. IMHO.

Hey stupid put up or shut up !
I thought you pissed off , I suppose you are just a lonely old soul !

[Vuryek]

All very good but you have said nothing that reveals where you stand with regards to the type of solution, you only advocate we rid ourselves of our life jacket and hope for the best.

Without Turkeys financial support and the continuation of isolation how will you solve the economic chaos we would quickly find ourselves in?

Your opinions so far appear to be naive at best and very much up with the utopians who think as long as we all call ourselves Cypriots everything else will fall in place.

Financial support? You mean "to TRNC Economy"? That is real utopia. You can easily find answers to your every question but you need to want it first.

Objectively, a real economy and monetary politics defined with some descriptive rules and conditions. Without there rules and conditions, your system cannot be defined as an economy. Let me explain in more simple way. In North Cyprus we only consume! no real production, no real money! You can easily check financial tables of "TRNC" from web site of "devlet planlama". Statistically there is "518 cars for 1000 person" (it was statistics of 2006 I think but you can find it) which means at least one car for two person. This is a simple example of a bizarre wealth of a small population. What production we have to gain this kind of wealth where nearly %80 of population is "government officer". No, this is not a real economy and this is not a financial support. Truly, it is kind of feeding. Feeding up a to create a selfish population who doesn’t care about the future of their country. Turkey is feeding up Turkish Cypriots too keep them silent. There is no "TRNC" even for Turkey. Our future with Turkey can only be same with "Hatay" which was integrated, which means exactly TAXIM.

You want reality? We have a living government with a real economy at South. It may be have wounds, it may be have political and structural damages, maybe it is sick but ROC is our government. We left it! and we have a great share, part in history about treason to our government and our people. (You believe that all TC will go to heaven because of 1963? We are not angels.) Thus, it is also one of our most important liabilities to unite our country and turn back to our government to build up everything again with other Cypriots.

ROC has economy, ROC has production, ROC has its own money as other real governments. And we could start everything again from beginning. If we want to learn “how to work”, “how to gain our lives”, “how to join to a real work power”, “how to being a part of a real society, economy, production” then we gave to give back what is not ours. And we have to give back what we gain without working to train ourselves, as a normal human being, from beginning.

Clear? or you want a lazy “TRNC” dream until its last moments.

[zan]

All very good but you have said nothing that reveals where you stand with regards to the type of solution, you only advocate we rid ourselves of our life jacket and hope for the best.

Without Turkeys financial support and the continuation of isolation how will you solve the economic chaos we would quickly find ourselves in?

Your opinions so far appear to be naive at best and very much up with the utopians who think as long as we all call ourselves Cypriots everything else will fall in place.

Financial support? You mean "to TRNC Economy"? That is real utopia. You can easily find answers to your every question but you need to want it first.

Objectively, a real economy and monetary politics defined with some descriptive rules and conditions. Without there rules and conditions, your system cannot be defined as an economy. Let me explain in more simple way. In North Cyprus we only consume! no real production, no real money! You can easily check financial tables of "TRNC" from web site of "devlet planlama". Statistically there is "518 cars for 1000 person" (it was statistics of 2006 I think but you can find it) which means at least one car for two person. This is a simple example of a bizarre wealth of a small population. What production we have to gain this kind of wealth where nearly %80 of population is "government officer". No, this is not a real economy and this is not a financial support. Truly, it is kind of feeding. Feeding up a to create a selfish population who doesn’t care about the future of their country. Turkey is feeding up Turkish Cypriots too keep them silent. There is no "TRNC" even for Turkey. Our future with Turkey can only be same with "Hatay" which was integrated, which means exactly TAXIM.

You want reality? We have a living government with a real economy at South. It may be have wounds, it may be have political and structural damages, maybe it is sick but ROC is our government. We left it! and we have a great share, part in history about treason to our government and our people. (You believe that all TC will go to heaven because of 1963? We are not angels.) Thus, it is also one of our most important liabilities to unite our country and turn back to our government to build up everything again with other Cypriots.

ROC has economy, ROC has production, ROC has its own money as other real governments. And we could start everything again from beginning. If we want to learn “how to work”, “how to gain our lives”, “how to join to a real work power”, “how to being a part of a real society, economy, production” then we gave to give back what is not ours. And we have to give back what we gain without working to train ourselves, as a normal human being, from beginning.

Clear? or you want a lazy “TRNC” dream until its last moments.

Do you think that we can correct all that with recognition or a two state system Vuryek or not......

[Floda]

:lol: Be extra cautious should it ever become necessary for you to bend down to tie your shoelaces Miltiades, with an attitude like yours, one could never be sure on which side of the fence you sit [or bend over].

It would appear that your opinions have a tendency to lean towards whichever side seems to be in the ascendancy, such an attitude may result in your being caught in a position which might embarrass you.

Tie your laces furtively my friend, you can never be sure of who may be standing behind you. IMHO.

Hey stupid put up or shut up !
I thought you pissed off , I suppose you are just a lonely old soul !

Put what up where ?.

Beware the consequences of duplicity my friend, for he who seeks the counsel of both sides of a conflict must ultimately be traitor to one and true friend to neither.

[Floda]

:lol: Be extra cautious should it ever become necessary for you to bend down to tie your shoelaces Miltiades, with an attitude like yours, one could never be sure on which side of the fence you sit [or bend over].

It would appear that your opinions have a tendency to lean towards whichever side seems to be in the ascendancy, such an attitude may result in your being caught in a position which might embarrass you.

Tie your laces furtively my friend, you can never be sure of who may be standing behind you. IMHO.

Hey stupid put up or shut up !
I thought you pissed off , I suppose you are just a lonely old soul !

Put what up where ?.

Beware the consequences of duplicity my friend, for he who seeks the counsel of both sides of a conflict must ultimately be traitor to one and true friend to neither.

[miltiades]

Welcome to the forum Vuryek......


Thank you for your explanation but I must insist that you tell all here your entire views on Cyprus. You are obviously against Turkeys involvement in Cyprus but can you please tell us what your solution will be. It is only fair for all to know so we can cut out any confusion. Thank you in advance.

Dear friend, it is not possible to express “entire views” with 3 paragraphs. Every issue has both independent and related deep details thus if we are curious, our views are changing directly and dynamically related with our learning process. So I think it will be a more honest behaviour to think that we will learn and understand everybody’s views in time. Also, as you know, short and quick statements bring misunderstandings.
You want me to tell you “my solution”, but since solution is a not a kind of mathematical problem we have to accept its sociological, economical, socio-psychological, educational, political sides and you know each side is a kind of deep discussions. But let me explain how Turkey effects these issues with few examples.
If we want to talk about solution, first we have to talk about circumstances to get a provision of what we are capable of. Turkey’s “involvement” brings more criteria to discuss in Cyprus Problem? When we consider that Turkey is a completely separated country who thinks and moves only for itself, you can realize that it brings some unnatural additional criteria, which are not representing us, to our problem. Some of these criteria are completely blocked issues which are created to block solution. I think it is clear that we have less to “discuss” without Turkey’s “polite presence”.
Second, the authorities, whom the world named them as “Turkish Cypriot Leadership” and Turkey named them as “T.R.N.C.”, are neither a “government”, nor a “leadership” even not a simple authority. These servants only represent the orders of Turkey, which comes through Turkish Embassy. Not realistic? Why don’t you compare the speeches of Talat, Ferdi, which they made before their “presidency” and after their “presidency”? Anyone want me to post some examples? How can you explain the difference between Cypriotic speeches and Denktash like speeches of Talat’s and his fellows’s ? How can you explain the flexibility of their ideas which changes with “ideology” of Turkish Government? They become fascist with Grey Wolfs, religionist with AKP (which is present government), militarists with MGK (non changing military government of turkey) and you expect me to say that they are an independent leadership? Nobody can sit on that “TRNC chairs” if they will not follow orders of Turkey... Talat is not representing Cypriots, he is even not representing himself. Once Talat said “Because of the (fascism of) Greek Cypriots, I start to act like Denktash!” Was he talking about our Greek Cypriots who elected Christofias , instead of Papadapulos (sorry for spelling) or was he talking about another parallel world? What a paradox.
If I am wrong then please inform me about why have they brought Turkey’s education system? Why are they still building mosques to everywhere? Why are they trying to bring fanatic religion education to occupied area by both legal and illegal ways? Why have they brought their Turkey’s nationalist trade unions to occupied area? Why have they give permission to destroy ancient ruins, historical places to build up hotels of Turkish developers? Why population of settlers are more than 2 times of Cypriots? (Once Talat said “If we count all military, settlers “our” population can be approximately five hundred thousand”) Why approximately %40 of North Cyprus is military area? Why “Turkish Cypriot courts” cannot touch the settlers? Why every technical committee and working group includes at least 2 nationalist and 1broucrat? Who put them there? Who is paying for the economy of that “TRNC” thing (Once Ferdi Sabit Soyer said that Turkey is paying 500 million YTL for every year)? ... as you know we cannot list all of them today. We call assimilation to this process, and will bring integration.
These circumstances are a clear provision of permanent problem and they can be disappear with “un-involvement” of Turkey and there is no doubt that details and identification of our problem can change without occupation.

Turkey is not occupying Cyprus to save or protect Turkish Cypriots. Turkey is occupying Cyprus only for geopolitics. Everybody understood that schools history books were completely lie, which says “Turkey saved us from monsters and vampires which need to feed with Turks” (Not real? Read the book of Vehbi Zeki Serter). Both books of Makarios Drushotis and Mehmet Ali Tremesheli are high quality proof of what Turkey did between 1955-1974. Many times Turkish organisations killed Turkish Cypriots and blame Greek Cypriots. Turkish Army killed both GC, and TC and we are still talking about involvement of Turkey!
Turkey is not a kind of unresistable force. If we really want, we can send them back. We just need to get our voice higher to make International Arena to hear that even TC don’t want Turkey in Cyprus. We can handle by ourselves.

Could you now explain me why we need Turkey for solution?


And no, ROC is not an occupier. I want to remind you that TC have left ROC parliament and have built a new “"!!??government!!??" under the "!!??protection!!??" of Turkey”.

All very good but you have said nothing that reveals where you stand with regards to the type of solution, you only advocate we rid ourselves of our life jacket and hope for the best.

Without Turkeys financial support and the continuation of isolation how will you solve the economic chaos we would quickly find ourselves in?

Your opinions so far appear to be naive at best and very much up with the utopians who think as long as we all call ourselves Cypriots everything else will fall in place.

Thanks VP for your accurate views and for pointing this post out to me...I missed it with my exchanges with Miltiades.......Both Vuryek and Miltiades are refusing to state their positions on this issue. We need a precise answer from both of you please gentlemen.....

My position and that of our new friend are on par , we are both Cypriots who want to be free from foreign domination. We both believe in the right of the indigenous T/C Cypriots to share our nation as equal Cypriots whose allegiance is to our nation of Cyprus , unlike the two of you who are committed to the absorption of a part of Cyprus by Turkey and the permanent extinction of the Turkish Cypriot.
Our new friend has ruffled your feathers , he lives in the occupied part and just as the four youngsters recently in the news he wants his nation to be rid of the occupying troops.
For his sake I hope he is careful and does not insult "Turkishness " we need more true Cypriot voices and less Grey Wolves shrieks.

All I can say Miltiades is that you are easily fooled.

Zan , you are twisting and turning because a T/C has dared expose the myth that the T/Cs want Turkey to remain in Cyprus, in fact it is clear that they want nothing of the sort . They want to get rid of the occupation army , they want it to "sod off" as per the graffiti writers.
He or she , has driven a wedge between your own aspirations and those of the T/Cs at large. You belong to the old guard of Denktash and his imported Grey Wolves . Your motherland isn't theirs clearly .
I implore you once again to abandon my homeland and that of the majority of the indigenous T/Cs , G/Cs Maronites and Armenians and find happiness in your motherland . Our Cyprus belongs to us the Cypriots , get it through your head mate !

[Viewpoint]

Vuryek

Financial support? You mean "to TRNC Economy"? That is real utopia. You can easily find answers to your every question but you need to want it first.

Objectively, a real economy and monetary politics defined with some descriptive rules and conditions. Without there rules and conditions, your system cannot be defined as an economy. Let me explain in more simple way. In North Cyprus we only consume! no real production, no real money! You can easily check financial tables of "TRNC" from web site of "devlet planlama". Statistically there is "518 cars for 1000 person" (it was statistics of 2006 I think but you can find it) which means at least one car for two person. This is a simple example of a bizarre wealth of a small population. What production we have to gain this kind of wealth where nearly %80 of population is "government officer". No, this is not a real economy and this is not a financial support. Truly, it is kind of feeding. Feeding up a to create a selfish population who doesn’t care about the future of their country. Turkey is feeding up Turkish Cypriots too keep them silent. There is no "TRNC" even for Turkey. Our future with Turkey can only be same with "Hatay" which was integrated, which means exactly TAXIM.

Real or not do we receive support from Turkey?

Its a simple question yet you talk in riddles to make excuses, how do you propose we turn our backs on Turkey and refuse this money? do you think the GCs economy will fill the void? wont you dependent on handouts? from a hostile and reluctant GC people? How will you guarantee that isolation will be lifted and how will not expose yourself to GC dominance and discrimination?

What is the alternative to Turkey? we are unable to stand our own 2 feet due to GC persistence of isoalation and you expect us to abandone our only ally and wait for GCs to open our path so that we may develop and support ourselves. Im sorry but you are being very naive and only jump out of the fat into the fire. Without concrete and clear undertakings from GCs TCs will not move one inch.

You want reality? We have a living government with a real economy at South. It may be have wounds, it may be have political and structural damages, maybe it is sick but ROC is our government. We left it! and we have a great share, part in history about treason to our government and our people. (You believe that all TC will go to heaven because of 1963? We are not angels.) Thus, it is also one of our most important liabilities to unite our country and turn back to our government to build up everything again with other Cypriots.

You have nothing in the south they do not recognize your rights, havent you noticed you are not represented or vote for the surrent GC government, there are no TC government workers and they still have a Greek national anthem. We didnt leave we were kicked out at gun poınt and on wanting to return we had to accept Akritas which od course we could not. We are only willing to for a partnership as supported by the UN a BBF with politcal equality, thats whats on the table not the "RoC".

ROC has economy, ROC has production, ROC has its own money as other real governments. And we could start everything again from beginning. If we want to learn “how to work”, “how to gain our lives”, “how to join to a real work power”, “how to being a part of a real society, economy, production” then we gave to give back what is not ours. And we have to give back what we gain without working to train ourselves, as a normal human being, from beginning.

You are kidding yourself if you think they want you back "to start all over again" ask the Piratis and Kifeas how they view you as a TC in "RoC", they only want 37% of the island back to control themselves and ensure you are just reduced to another minority without any community rights or guarantees that you will never be pushed to one side or discriminated against. How will you guarantee TCs will not be reduced to minority status and that whole island does not become a gC state run by GCs for GCs?

Clear? or you want a lazy “TRNC” dream until its last moments.

You must be no more than 16 as you show that you have no real understanding of the dangers involved in thinking that you are wanted in the "RoC", you have to fight for your rights otherwise they will be bulldozed and you will be a foreigner in a country run by GCs.

The TRNC with all its faults is all we have and is home, you are trying to grasp a straws just keep watching the negotiations and see how ready the GCs are to compromise or are they just playing the old game of we are the legitimate owners of Cyprus you have to shut up and adhere to what we want.

[Vuryek]

All very good but you have said nothing that reveals where you stand with regards to the type of solution, you only advocate we rid ourselves of our life jacket and hope for the best.

Without Turkeys financial support and the continuation of isolation how will you solve the economic chaos we would quickly find ourselves in?

Your opinions so far appear to be naive at best and very much up with the utopians who think as long as we all call ourselves Cypriots everything else will fall in place.

Financial support? You mean "to TRNC Economy"? That is real utopia. You can easily find answers to your every question but you need to want it first.

Objectively, a real economy and monetary politics defined with some descriptive rules and conditions. Without there rules and conditions, your system cannot be defined as an economy. Let me explain in more simple way. In North Cyprus we only consume! no real production, no real money! You can easily check financial tables of "TRNC" from web site of "devlet planlama". Statistically there is "518 cars for 1000 person" (it was statistics of 2006 I think but you can find it) which means at least one car for two person. This is a simple example of a bizarre wealth of a small population. What production we have to gain this kind of wealth where nearly %80 of population is "government officer". No, this is not a real economy and this is not a financial support. Truly, it is kind of feeding. Feeding up a to create a selfish population who doesn’t care about the future of their country. Turkey is feeding up Turkish Cypriots too keep them silent. There is no "TRNC" even for Turkey. Our future with Turkey can only be same with "Hatay" which was integrated, which means exactly TAXIM.

You want reality? We have a living government with a real economy at South. It may be have wounds, it may be have political and structural damages, maybe it is sick but ROC is our government. We left it! and we have a great share, part in history about treason to our government and our people. (You believe that all TC will go to heaven because of 1963? We are not angels.) Thus, it is also one of our most important liabilities to unite our country and turn back to our government to build up everything again with other Cypriots.

ROC has economy, ROC has production, ROC has its own money as other real governments. And we could start everything again from beginning. If we want to learn “how to work”, “how to gain our lives”, “how to join to a real work power”, “how to being a part of a real society, economy, production” then we gave to give back what is not ours. And we have to give back what we gain without working to train ourselves, as a normal human being, from beginning.

Clear? or you want a lazy “TRNC” dream until its last moments.

Do you think that we can correct all that with recognition or a two state system Vuryek or not......

Its a bit complex question which is related with many topics. Two state system can be hopeful transition period for to desing and build a very good system. But that is a fact, we cannot build any healty system under the influence of other countries because they will certainly try to shape this "new formation" according to their profits.