Cyprus-Forum.com

[Vuryek]

Double talk yet again.......Do we go to a FULL Zurich agreement or not......


As to the second part of your post....You reject the "Occupation" but you accept the fait accompli of the GCs having our government...You speak with forked tongue Miltiades or at best you have no idea of what you are saying...........Let me make it clearer for you....We cannot have both ways........Either the Zurich agreement or the fait acompli which is the "RoC" now choose and stop your nonsense!!!!!

I dont understand why you are talking about past and present sutiation of ROC. Its structure was not healty because of outside effects. We can change many things and build a healty structure. It is neither a taboo nor a dogma.

We are all Cypriots and we can educate ourselves to eliminate discrimination and unnatural nationalism. By this way we have a hopefull future.

But if you persistent about a "unnatural, heterogen, national division" in a government you have to accept to get related with population of your nation.


Otherwise Turkey must give permanent chairs to Kurds at their parliament.

[zan]

Double talk yet again.......Do we go to a FULL Zurich agreement or not......


As to the second part of your post....You reject the "Occupation" but you accept the fait accompli of the GCs having our government...You speak with forked tongue Miltiades or at best you have no idea of what you are saying...........Let me make it clearer for you....We cannot have both ways........Either the Zurich agreement or the fait acompli which is the "RoC" now choose and stop your nonsense!!!!!

I dont understand why you are talking about past and present sutiation of ROC. Its structure was not healty because of outside effects. We can change many things and build a healty structure. It is neither a taboo nor a dogma.

We are all Cypriots and we can educate ourselves to eliminate discrimination and unnatural nationalism. By this way we have a hopefull future.

But if you persistent about a "unnatural, heterogen, national division" in a government you have to accept to get related with population of your nation.


Otherwise Turkey must give permanent chairs to Kurds at their parliament.

The Kurds have never had a Zurich agreement of their own with Turkey so you are not comparing like with like.

[miltiades]

A very emotional "Bollocks" from me to you my dear compatriot, my Sundays are on the whole quite mundane, but THAT should liven this one up a bit !! !

That's it Milti, sock it to 'em !!.

I have lodged a complaint , my first on this forum , against your person for posting material that you attribute to my self which is not only slanderous but damn right out of order . The forum is a platform for debates and for presenting your views , using my name as the author of a particular post is out of order.
I did not post the part that this warped individual posted as mine, I demand an apology and an acknowledgement of your cheap action.
ps.I thought you pissed off mate , good riddance I would say !

Calm down Miltiades, I merely sought to relieve some of the emotional tension you were obviously under and saw that as a means to achieving it.

Naturally I will apologize [if that be your wish] and do so without reservation.

My main aim was to splutter your screen with red wine, "Did it work" ?.

Regarding my departure, I WILL now log out, I had intended to earlier but neglected to do so.

My name is Daniel, I am neither Maynard nor any other person, I am very disappointed with the general attitude on the forum which ever seems to lean towards assuming that members have multiple identities.

I have read through so many posts, my mistake was in trying to join in in a manner which is completely out of character to me.

Apologies once again, sincerely, Daniel.

We all have a few bumpy landings and I am glad you have picked yourself up, dusted yourself off and are starting all over again. Very pleased you are staying .... and relish exchanges between you, Maynard and dear Eliko if he makes it back safely ....

( ... all three of you versus Miltiades )

Only three against me , so unfair , at least a dozen for starters , give the boys a chance !!

[miltiades]

Double talk yet again.......Do we go to a FULL Zurich agreement or not......


As to the second part of your post....You reject the "Occupation" but you accept the fait accompli of the GCs having our government...You speak with forked tongue Miltiades or at best you have no idea of what you are saying...........Let me make it clearer for you....We cannot have both ways........Either the Zurich agreement or the fait acompli which is the "RoC" now choose and stop your nonsense!!!!!

I dont understand why you are talking about past and present sutiation of ROC. Its structure was not healty because of outside effects. We can change many things and build a healty structure. It is neither a taboo nor a dogma.

We are all Cypriots and we can educate ourselves to eliminate discrimination and unnatural nationalism. By this way we have a hopefull future.

But if you persistent about a "unnatural, heterogen, national division" in a government you have to accept to get related with population of your nation.


Otherwise Turkey must give permanent chairs to Kurds at their parliament.

Spoken like a true Cypriot . I love the description " unnatural nationalism " !!

[zan]

Double talk yet again.......Do we go to a FULL Zurich agreement or not......


As to the second part of your post....You reject the "Occupation" but you accept the fait accompli of the GCs having our government...You speak with forked tongue Miltiades or at best you have no idea of what you are saying...........Let me make it clearer for you....We cannot have both ways........Either the Zurich agreement or the fait acompli which is the "RoC" now choose and stop your nonsense!!!!!

I dont understand why you are talking about past and present sutiation of ROC. Its structure was not healty because of outside effects. We can change many things and build a healty structure. It is neither a taboo nor a dogma.

We are all Cypriots and we can educate ourselves to eliminate discrimination and unnatural nationalism. By this way we have a hopefull future.

But if you persistent about a "unnatural, heterogen, national division" in a government you have to accept to get related with population of your nation.


Otherwise Turkey must give permanent chairs to Kurds at their parliament.

Spoken like a true Cypriot . I love the description " unnatural nationalism " !!

Are you EVER going to answer my question or not you rascal you!!!!

[Viewpoint]

Welcome to the forum Vuryek......


Thank you for your explanation but I must insist that you tell all here your entire views on Cyprus. You are obviously against Turkeys involvement in Cyprus but can you please tell us what your solution will be. It is only fair for all to know so we can cut out any confusion. Thank you in advance.

Dear friend, it is not possible to express “entire views” with 3 paragraphs. Every issue has both independent and related deep details thus if we are curious, our views are changing directly and dynamically related with our learning process. So I think it will be a more honest behaviour to think that we will learn and understand everybody’s views in time. Also, as you know, short and quick statements bring misunderstandings.
You want me to tell you “my solution”, but since solution is a not a kind of mathematical problem we have to accept its sociological, economical, socio-psychological, educational, political sides and you know each side is a kind of deep discussions. But let me explain how Turkey effects these issues with few examples.
If we want to talk about solution, first we have to talk about circumstances to get a provision of what we are capable of. Turkey’s “involvement” brings more criteria to discuss in Cyprus Problem? When we consider that Turkey is a completely separated country who thinks and moves only for itself, you can realize that it brings some unnatural additional criteria, which are not representing us, to our problem. Some of these criteria are completely blocked issues which are created to block solution. I think it is clear that we have less to “discuss” without Turkey’s “polite presence”.
Second, the authorities, whom the world named them as “Turkish Cypriot Leadership” and Turkey named them as “T.R.N.C.”, are neither a “government”, nor a “leadership” even not a simple authority. These servants only represent the orders of Turkey, which comes through Turkish Embassy. Not realistic? Why don’t you compare the speeches of Talat, Ferdi, which they made before their “presidency” and after their “presidency”? Anyone want me to post some examples? How can you explain the difference between Cypriotic speeches and Denktash like speeches of Talat’s and his fellows’s ? How can you explain the flexibility of their ideas which changes with “ideology” of Turkish Government? They become fascist with Grey Wolfs, religionist with AKP (which is present government), militarists with MGK (non changing military government of turkey) and you expect me to say that they are an independent leadership? Nobody can sit on that “TRNC chairs” if they will not follow orders of Turkey... Talat is not representing Cypriots, he is even not representing himself. Once Talat said “Because of the (fascism of) Greek Cypriots, I start to act like Denktash!” Was he talking about our Greek Cypriots who elected Christofias , instead of Papadapulos (sorry for spelling) or was he talking about another parallel world? What a paradox.
If I am wrong then please inform me about why have they brought Turkey’s education system? Why are they still building mosques to everywhere? Why are they trying to bring fanatic religion education to occupied area by both legal and illegal ways? Why have they brought their Turkey’s nationalist trade unions to occupied area? Why have they give permission to destroy ancient ruins, historical places to build up hotels of Turkish developers? Why population of settlers are more than 2 times of Cypriots? (Once Talat said “If we count all military, settlers “our” population can be approximately five hundred thousand”) Why approximately %40 of North Cyprus is military area? Why “Turkish Cypriot courts” cannot touch the settlers? Why every technical committee and working group includes at least 2 nationalist and 1broucrat? Who put them there? Who is paying for the economy of that “TRNC” thing (Once Ferdi Sabit Soyer said that Turkey is paying 500 million YTL for every year)? ... as you know we cannot list all of them today. We call assimilation to this process, and will bring integration.
These circumstances are a clear provision of permanent problem and they can be disappear with “un-involvement” of Turkey and there is no doubt that details and identification of our problem can change without occupation.

Turkey is not occupying Cyprus to save or protect Turkish Cypriots. Turkey is occupying Cyprus only for geopolitics. Everybody understood that schools history books were completely lie, which says “Turkey saved us from monsters and vampires which need to feed with Turks” (Not real? Read the book of Vehbi Zeki Serter). Both books of Makarios Drushotis and Mehmet Ali Tremesheli are high quality proof of what Turkey did between 1955-1974. Many times Turkish organisations killed Turkish Cypriots and blame Greek Cypriots. Turkish Army killed both GC, and TC and we are still talking about involvement of Turkey!
Turkey is not a kind of unresistable force. If we really want, we can send them back. We just need to get our voice higher to make International Arena to hear that even TC don’t want Turkey in Cyprus. We can handle by ourselves.

Could you now explain me why we need Turkey for solution?


And no, ROC is not an occupier. I want to remind you that TC have left ROC parliament and have built a new “"!!??government!!??" under the "!!??protection!!??" of Turkey”.

All very good but you have said nothing that reveals where you stand with regards to the type of solution, you only advocate we rid ourselves of our life jacket and hope for the best.

Without Turkeys financial support and the continuation of isolation how will you solve the economic chaos we would quickly find ourselves in?

Your opinions so far appear to be naive at best and very much up with the utopians who think as long as we all call ourselves Cypriots everything else will fall in place.

[zan]

Welcome to the forum Vuryek......


Thank you for your explanation but I must insist that you tell all here your entire views on Cyprus. You are obviously against Turkeys involvement in Cyprus but can you please tell us what your solution will be. It is only fair for all to know so we can cut out any confusion. Thank you in advance.

Dear friend, it is not possible to express “entire views” with 3 paragraphs. Every issue has both independent and related deep details thus if we are curious, our views are changing directly and dynamically related with our learning process. So I think it will be a more honest behaviour to think that we will learn and understand everybody’s views in time. Also, as you know, short and quick statements bring misunderstandings.
You want me to tell you “my solution”, but since solution is a not a kind of mathematical problem we have to accept its sociological, economical, socio-psychological, educational, political sides and you know each side is a kind of deep discussions. But let me explain how Turkey effects these issues with few examples.
If we want to talk about solution, first we have to talk about circumstances to get a provision of what we are capable of. Turkey’s “involvement” brings more criteria to discuss in Cyprus Problem? When we consider that Turkey is a completely separated country who thinks and moves only for itself, you can realize that it brings some unnatural additional criteria, which are not representing us, to our problem. Some of these criteria are completely blocked issues which are created to block solution. I think it is clear that we have less to “discuss” without Turkey’s “polite presence”.
Second, the authorities, whom the world named them as “Turkish Cypriot Leadership” and Turkey named them as “T.R.N.C.”, are neither a “government”, nor a “leadership” even not a simple authority. These servants only represent the orders of Turkey, which comes through Turkish Embassy. Not realistic? Why don’t you compare the speeches of Talat, Ferdi, which they made before their “presidency” and after their “presidency”? Anyone want me to post some examples? How can you explain the difference between Cypriotic speeches and Denktash like speeches of Talat’s and his fellows’s ? How can you explain the flexibility of their ideas which changes with “ideology” of Turkish Government? They become fascist with Grey Wolfs, religionist with AKP (which is present government), militarists with MGK (non changing military government of turkey) and you expect me to say that they are an independent leadership? Nobody can sit on that “TRNC chairs” if they will not follow orders of Turkey... Talat is not representing Cypriots, he is even not representing himself. Once Talat said “Because of the (fascism of) Greek Cypriots, I start to act like Denktash!” Was he talking about our Greek Cypriots who elected Christofias , instead of Papadapulos (sorry for spelling) or was he talking about another parallel world? What a paradox.
If I am wrong then please inform me about why have they brought Turkey’s education system? Why are they still building mosques to everywhere? Why are they trying to bring fanatic religion education to occupied area by both legal and illegal ways? Why have they brought their Turkey’s nationalist trade unions to occupied area? Why have they give permission to destroy ancient ruins, historical places to build up hotels of Turkish developers? Why population of settlers are more than 2 times of Cypriots? (Once Talat said “If we count all military, settlers “our” population can be approximately five hundred thousand”) Why approximately %40 of North Cyprus is military area? Why “Turkish Cypriot courts” cannot touch the settlers? Why every technical committee and working group includes at least 2 nationalist and 1broucrat? Who put them there? Who is paying for the economy of that “TRNC” thing (Once Ferdi Sabit Soyer said that Turkey is paying 500 million YTL for every year)? ... as you know we cannot list all of them today. We call assimilation to this process, and will bring integration.
These circumstances are a clear provision of permanent problem and they can be disappear with “un-involvement” of Turkey and there is no doubt that details and identification of our problem can change without occupation.

Turkey is not occupying Cyprus to save or protect Turkish Cypriots. Turkey is occupying Cyprus only for geopolitics. Everybody understood that schools history books were completely lie, which says “Turkey saved us from monsters and vampires which need to feed with Turks” (Not real? Read the book of Vehbi Zeki Serter). Both books of Makarios Drushotis and Mehmet Ali Tremesheli are high quality proof of what Turkey did between 1955-1974. Many times Turkish organisations killed Turkish Cypriots and blame Greek Cypriots. Turkish Army killed both GC, and TC and we are still talking about involvement of Turkey!
Turkey is not a kind of unresistable force. If we really want, we can send them back. We just need to get our voice higher to make International Arena to hear that even TC don’t want Turkey in Cyprus. We can handle by ourselves.

Could you now explain me why we need Turkey for solution?


And no, ROC is not an occupier. I want to remind you that TC have left ROC parliament and have built a new “"!!??government!!??" under the "!!??protection!!??" of Turkey”.

All very good but you have said nothing that reveals where you stand with regards to the type of solution, you only advocate we rid ourselves of our life jacket and hope for the best.

Without Turkeys financial support and the continuation of isolation how will you solve the economic chaos we would quickly find ourselves in?

Your opinions so far appear to be naive at best and very much up with the utopians who think as long as we all call ourselves Cypriots everything else will fall in place.

Thanks VP for your accurate views and for pointing this post out to me...I missed it with my exchanges with Miltiades.......Both Vuryek and Miltiades are refusing to state their positions on this issue. We need a precise answer from both of you please gentlemen.....

[miltiades]

Double talk yet again.......Do we go to a FULL Zurich agreement or not......


As to the second part of your post....You reject the "Occupation" but you accept the fait accompli of the GCs having our government...You speak with forked tongue Miltiades or at best you have no idea of what you are saying...........Let me make it clearer for you....We cannot have both ways........Either the Zurich agreement or the fait acompli which is the "RoC" now choose and stop your nonsense!!!!!

I dont understand why you are talking about past and present sutiation of ROC. Its structure was not healty because of outside effects. We can change many things and build a healty structure. It is neither a taboo nor a dogma.

We are all Cypriots and we can educate ourselves to eliminate discrimination and unnatural nationalism. By this way we have a hopefull future.

But if you persistent about a "unnatural, heterogen, national division" in a government you have to accept to get related with population of your nation.


Otherwise Turkey must give permanent chairs to Kurds at their parliament.

Spoken like a true Cypriot . I love the description " unnatural nationalism " !!

Are you EVER going to answer my question or not you rascal you!!!!

Zan , you are beginning to annoy me now , which bloody question mate ?
I allready said that I BELEIVE THE T/CS SHOULD HAVE ALL OF THEIR RIGHTS UNDER THE ZURICH AGREEMENT.
Do you get it now foreigner or do you want it in Turkish .#
I honestly think you should go and join your motherland mate , you know that brave new MODERN world , my foot !!

[miltiades]

Welcome to the forum Vuryek......


Thank you for your explanation but I must insist that you tell all here your entire views on Cyprus. You are obviously against Turkeys involvement in Cyprus but can you please tell us what your solution will be. It is only fair for all to know so we can cut out any confusion. Thank you in advance.

Dear friend, it is not possible to express “entire views” with 3 paragraphs. Every issue has both independent and related deep details thus if we are curious, our views are changing directly and dynamically related with our learning process. So I think it will be a more honest behaviour to think that we will learn and understand everybody’s views in time. Also, as you know, short and quick statements bring misunderstandings.
You want me to tell you “my solution”, but since solution is a not a kind of mathematical problem we have to accept its sociological, economical, socio-psychological, educational, political sides and you know each side is a kind of deep discussions. But let me explain how Turkey effects these issues with few examples.
If we want to talk about solution, first we have to talk about circumstances to get a provision of what we are capable of. Turkey’s “involvement” brings more criteria to discuss in Cyprus Problem? When we consider that Turkey is a completely separated country who thinks and moves only for itself, you can realize that it brings some unnatural additional criteria, which are not representing us, to our problem. Some of these criteria are completely blocked issues which are created to block solution. I think it is clear that we have less to “discuss” without Turkey’s “polite presence”.
Second, the authorities, whom the world named them as “Turkish Cypriot Leadership” and Turkey named them as “T.R.N.C.”, are neither a “government”, nor a “leadership” even not a simple authority. These servants only represent the orders of Turkey, which comes through Turkish Embassy. Not realistic? Why don’t you compare the speeches of Talat, Ferdi, which they made before their “presidency” and after their “presidency”? Anyone want me to post some examples? How can you explain the difference between Cypriotic speeches and Denktash like speeches of Talat’s and his fellows’s ? How can you explain the flexibility of their ideas which changes with “ideology” of Turkish Government? They become fascist with Grey Wolfs, religionist with AKP (which is present government), militarists with MGK (non changing military government of turkey) and you expect me to say that they are an independent leadership? Nobody can sit on that “TRNC chairs” if they will not follow orders of Turkey... Talat is not representing Cypriots, he is even not representing himself. Once Talat said “Because of the (fascism of) Greek Cypriots, I start to act like Denktash!” Was he talking about our Greek Cypriots who elected Christofias , instead of Papadapulos (sorry for spelling) or was he talking about another parallel world? What a paradox.
If I am wrong then please inform me about why have they brought Turkey’s education system? Why are they still building mosques to everywhere? Why are they trying to bring fanatic religion education to occupied area by both legal and illegal ways? Why have they brought their Turkey’s nationalist trade unions to occupied area? Why have they give permission to destroy ancient ruins, historical places to build up hotels of Turkish developers? Why population of settlers are more than 2 times of Cypriots? (Once Talat said “If we count all military, settlers “our” population can be approximately five hundred thousand”) Why approximately %40 of North Cyprus is military area? Why “Turkish Cypriot courts” cannot touch the settlers? Why every technical committee and working group includes at least 2 nationalist and 1broucrat? Who put them there? Who is paying for the economy of that “TRNC” thing (Once Ferdi Sabit Soyer said that Turkey is paying 500 million YTL for every year)? ... as you know we cannot list all of them today. We call assimilation to this process, and will bring integration.
These circumstances are a clear provision of permanent problem and they can be disappear with “un-involvement” of Turkey and there is no doubt that details and identification of our problem can change without occupation.

Turkey is not occupying Cyprus to save or protect Turkish Cypriots. Turkey is occupying Cyprus only for geopolitics. Everybody understood that schools history books were completely lie, which says “Turkey saved us from monsters and vampires which need to feed with Turks” (Not real? Read the book of Vehbi Zeki Serter). Both books of Makarios Drushotis and Mehmet Ali Tremesheli are high quality proof of what Turkey did between 1955-1974. Many times Turkish organisations killed Turkish Cypriots and blame Greek Cypriots. Turkish Army killed both GC, and TC and we are still talking about involvement of Turkey!
Turkey is not a kind of unresistable force. If we really want, we can send them back. We just need to get our voice higher to make International Arena to hear that even TC don’t want Turkey in Cyprus. We can handle by ourselves.

Could you now explain me why we need Turkey for solution?


And no, ROC is not an occupier. I want to remind you that TC have left ROC parliament and have built a new “"!!??government!!??" under the "!!??protection!!??" of Turkey”.

All very good but you have said nothing that reveals where you stand with regards to the type of solution, you only advocate we rid ourselves of our life jacket and hope for the best.

Without Turkeys financial support and the continuation of isolation how will you solve the economic chaos we would quickly find ourselves in?

Your opinions so far appear to be naive at best and very much up with the utopians who think as long as we all call ourselves Cypriots everything else will fall in place.

Thanks VP for your accurate views and for pointing this post out to me...I missed it with my exchanges with Miltiades.......Both Vuryek and Miltiades are refusing to state their positions on this issue. We need a precise answer from both of you please gentlemen.....

My position and that of our new friend are on par , we are both Cypriots who want to be free from foreign domination. We both believe in the right of the indigenous T/C Cypriots to share our nation as equal Cypriots whose allegiance is to our nation of Cyprus , unlike the two of you who are committed to the absorption of a part of Cyprus by Turkey and the permanent extinction of the Turkish Cypriot.
Our new friend has ruffled your feathers , he lives in the occupied part and just as the four youngsters recently in the news he wants his nation to be rid of the occupying troops.
For his sake I hope he is careful and does not insult "Turkishness " we need more true Cypriot voices and less Grey Wolves shrieks.

[zan]

Double talk yet again.......Do we go to a FULL Zurich agreement or not......


As to the second part of your post....You reject the "Occupation" but you accept the fait accompli of the GCs having our government...You speak with forked tongue Miltiades or at best you have no idea of what you are saying...........Let me make it clearer for you....We cannot have both ways........Either the Zurich agreement or the fait acompli which is the "RoC" now choose and stop your nonsense!!!!!

I dont understand why you are talking about past and present sutiation of ROC. Its structure was not healty because of outside effects. We can change many things and build a healty structure. It is neither a taboo nor a dogma.

We are all Cypriots and we can educate ourselves to eliminate discrimination and unnatural nationalism. By this way we have a hopefull future.

But if you persistent about a "unnatural, heterogen, national division" in a government you have to accept to get related with population of your nation.


Otherwise Turkey must give permanent chairs to Kurds at their parliament.

Spoken like a true Cypriot . I love the description " unnatural nationalism " !!

Are you EVER going to answer my question or not you rascal you!!!!

Zan , you are beginning to annoy me now , which bloody question mate ?
I allready said that I BELEIVE THE T/CS SHOULD HAVE ALL OF THEIR RIGHTS UNDER THE ZURICH AGREEMENT.
Do you get it now foreigner or do you want it in Turkish .#
I honestly think you should go and join your motherland mate , you know that brave new MODERN world , my foot !!

You said that the other day and then you started with the conditions....Do you fully understand the question.....FULL RIGHTS NO CHANGES NO CONDITIONS!!!!! It would mean your "RoC" will have to go back to the Cyprus Republic of old????