Cyprus-Forum.com

[Oracle]

Roseanchan,

You need to look up some serious British newspapers regarding the events of 1974 and how the population exchange took place. The British bases, especially the one in Akrotiri, played a major part in the process, which was forced on the RoC.

Second point regarding who is a Cypriot and who is not. Our nationality laws are based on the British nationality acts. We all know damn well who is and who is not British, the same tests apply in Cyprus.

Third, about Zan and his idiotic remarks about Greeks being imported in Cyprus by the British or anyone else. THis is pure idiocy. The dialect itself is enough to prove that there were no imports of Greeks, if there were we would have some linguistic remnants of mainland idiom. In addition during the British colonial rule there were strict rules about residence. I know this for a fact from a very close case, my mother was Greek, my father met her when he was a volunteer officer in the Royal Navy, yet she could not move to Cyprus for months till she was cleared under the Aliens Act. In the end she had to take British nationality inorder to stay in Cyprus.

So Zan please cut the crap and give us facts, if you have them.

Same with my Greek mother Nikitas ... she had to become "British" to live in Cyprus in the late 40's early '50's.

[Magnus]

would the Greek Cypriots - if regaining control of the entire island - have the entire Turkish Cypriot presence removed on the grounds of 'ridding the knife at their throats'? How attractive would this scenario be to the Greek Cypriot folk on this forum should control of the entire island be immediately regained?

I don't think anyone wants to expel all the TCs from Cyprus. Maybe a few complete extremists but not any significant proportion of the population. Most people just want the Turkish settlers out and the right to return to their old properties/vllages.

To be honest, there wouldn't be much point in expelling all the TCs anyway. All it would do is antagonise the TCs/Turks all over again and lead to more conflict further down the road. You can imagine all the propaganda that would come spewing out of Turkey about how the evil Greeks and EU etc forced them out of their country. and what if it escalated into a full-scale war between EU and Turkey with allies drawn in? There's been enough blood spilled on Cyprus, we don't need any more.

Besides that, it really wouldn't be fair to expel the TCs but allow other minorites (maronites, latins etc) and EU citizens to remain. In some ways it wouldn't be any different to what the Turkish army did to GCs in the north.

Personally I would prefer for all the illegal settlers to be sent back to Turkey (with reasonable exceptions such as in the case of people who have married TCs) and for any individuals remaining in GC properties to be relocated to other properties (perhaps owned by the state) or given the opportunity to buy the land from the GC owner (if they want to sell).

As far as determining who stays and who goes then I would apply the same rules that apply to myself at the moment. I was born in the UK but the RoC government says I am a Cypriot as my father and grandfather are/were Cypriots. If this is the rule for me then it should also apply to Turkish settlers (who I feel have no legal claim to the island) regardless of how long they have been living on the island.

[Paphitis]

would the Greek Cypriots - if regaining control of the entire island - have the entire Turkish Cypriot presence removed on the grounds of 'ridding the knife at their throats'? How attractive would this scenario be to the Greek Cypriot folk on this forum should control of the entire island be immediately regained?

I don't think anyone wants to expel all the TCs from Cyprus. Maybe a few complete extremists but not any significant proportion of the population. Most people just want the Turkish settlers out and the right to return to their old properties/vllages.

To be honest, there wouldn't be much point in expelling all the TCs anyway. All it would do is antagonise the TCs/Turks all over again and lead to more conflict further down the road. You can imagine all the propaganda that would come spewing out of Turkey about how the evil Greeks and EU etc forced them out of their country. and what if it escalated into a full-scale war between EU and Turkey with allies drawn in? There's been enough blood spilled on Cyprus, we don't need any more.

Besides that, it really wouldn't be fair to expel the TCs but allow other minorites (maronites, latins etc) and EU citizens to remain. In some ways it wouldn't be any different to what the Turkish army did to GCs in the north.

Personally I would prefer for all the illegal settlers to be sent back to Turkey (with reasonable exceptions such as in the case of people who have married TCs) and for any individuals remaining in GC properties to be relocated to other properties (perhaps owned by the state) or given the opportunity to buy the land from the GC owner (if they want to sell).

As far as determining who stays and who goes then I would apply the same rules that apply to myself at the moment. I was born in the UK but the RoC government says I am a Cypriot as my father and grandfather are/were Cypriots. If this is the rule for me then it should also apply to Turkish settlers (who I feel have no legal claim to the island) regardless of how long they have been living on the island.

Thank you Mangus for your opinion on the Turkish settlers. What we must accept is that the Turkish Settlers were imported into the occupied territories of Cyprus by the occupying power. This is a WAR Crime as defined by Article 49 of The Geneva Convention.

All Turkish Settlers must be deported. It is unacceptable to make any exceptions as this would render the Geneva Conventions as irrelevant and obsolete. This will also set a most dangerous precedent for other occupying powers to commit further atrocities.

The Cyprus Government does not have a mandate to take it upon itself and allow any Turkish Settlers to remain, let alone 50,000. There can be absolutely no exceptions, as every Turkish Settler currently in Cyprus, is a violation of International Law.

The basis of the current administration's election platform was that it was not going to make any concessions with regards to the Turkish Settlers. The people of Cyprus elected this administration on that basis. The current administration has misled the Cypriot electorate and really needs to rethink it's defunct policies which in themselves contradict International Law. Their are no humanitarian grounds as some wish to argue.

Article 49 clearly states:

Article 49

The Occupying Power shall not deport or transfer parts of its own civilian population into the territory it occupies.

[Magnus]

would the Greek Cypriots - if regaining control of the entire island - have the entire Turkish Cypriot presence removed on the grounds of 'ridding the knife at their throats'? How attractive would this scenario be to the Greek Cypriot folk on this forum should control of the entire island be immediately regained?

I don't think anyone wants to expel all the TCs from Cyprus. Maybe a few complete extremists but not any significant proportion of the population. Most people just want the Turkish settlers out and the right to return to their old properties/vllages.

To be honest, there wouldn't be much point in expelling all the TCs anyway. All it would do is antagonise the TCs/Turks all over again and lead to more conflict further down the road. You can imagine all the propaganda that would come spewing out of Turkey about how the evil Greeks and EU etc forced them out of their country. and what if it escalated into a full-scale war between EU and Turkey with allies drawn in? There's been enough blood spilled on Cyprus, we don't need any more.

Besides that, it really wouldn't be fair to expel the TCs but allow other minorites (maronites, latins etc) and EU citizens to remain. In some ways it wouldn't be any different to what the Turkish army did to GCs in the north.

Personally I would prefer for all the illegal settlers to be sent back to Turkey (with reasonable exceptions such as in the case of people who have married TCs) and for any individuals remaining in GC properties to be relocated to other properties (perhaps owned by the state) or given the opportunity to buy the land from the GC owner (if they want to sell).

As far as determining who stays and who goes then I would apply the same rules that apply to myself at the moment. I was born in the UK but the RoC government says I am a Cypriot as my father and grandfather are/were Cypriots. If this is the rule for me then it should also apply to Turkish settlers (who I feel have no legal claim to the island) regardless of how long they have been living on the island.

Thank you Mangus for your opinion on the Turkish settlers. What we must accept is that the Turkish Settlers were imported into the occupied territories of Cyprus by the occupying power. This is a WAR Crime as defined by Article 49 of The Geneva Convention.

All Turkish Settlers must be deported. It is unacceptable to make any exceptions as this would render the Geneva Conventions as irrelevant and obsolete. This will also set a most dangerous precedent for other occupying powers to commit further atrocities.

The Cyprus Government does not have a mandate to take it upon itself and allow any Turkish Settlers to remain, let alone 50,000. There can be absolutely no exceptions, as every Turkish Settler currently in Cyprus, is a violation of International Law.

The basis of the current administration's election platform was that it was not going to make any concessions with regards to the Turkish Settlers. The people of Cyprus elected this administration on that basis. The current administration has misled the Cypriot electorate and really needs to rethink it's defunct policies which in themselves contradict International Law. Their are no humanitarian grounds as some wish to argue.

Article 49 clearly states:

Article 49

The Occupying Power shall not deport or transfer parts of its own civilian population into the territory it occupies.

Hi Mr P, thanks for pointing this out. It was actually an error in my original post as I took it for granted that everyone agreed that international law applies first.

Obviously international law sets the first 'checkpoint'. Those rules are there to apply to everyone and certainly Cyprus should be no exception, so these would be the first rules that would apply. We can't 'pick and choose' what suits us. My own 'rules' would apply after that.

For the most part, it would all be simple (all illegal settlers have to leave) but there would also be people making claims on rightful citizenship and this is where I would apply the principles I mentioned.

For example, there will be people saying 'I am married to a Cypriot'. If the current rules of the RoC allow non-EU spouses of Cypriots to remain then the same should apply in this case. Obviously they would have to go through the same process as other non-EU spouses of Cypriots.

Similarly, for those who would claim 'I have lived here for X amount of years' then I would apply the same rule that exists for myself: 'if your father and grandfather are Cypriots, you are a Cypriot. Otherwise off you go'. If there are Turkish settlers that can meet this criteria (e.g. their father and grandfather were born in Cyprus but the person in question was born in Turkey and was brought over as a settler) then they can stay.

[utu]

Well folks, you are all certainly giving me food for thought. I do want to clarify that I wanted to use the Sudetenland 1938 crisis as a generalized comparision , not a direct parallel as there were differing political undertones to the basic issue of minority rights in foreign countries. Still, I am pleased to read that thus far there does not seem to be a mood from the Greek Cypriot contributors on this thread for removal of the Turkish Cypriot populace should a unitary state result. Thank you all for your input.

[RichardB]

Magnus wrote

As far as determining who stays and who goes then I would apply the same rules that apply to myself at the moment. I was born in the UK but the RoC government says I am a Cypriot as my father and grandfather are/were Cypriots.

Hi magnus (or anyone)

re; the above quote from a post made by you.

My son has a Cypriot mother and cypriot grandparents- would he be allowed Cypriot nationality?

I heard that the nationalility issue was based on the Fathers nationality

Could yourself or any one else clarify this please

Thankyou

[zan]

Double post:

[zan]

Roseanchan,

You need to look up some serious British newspapers regarding the events of 1974 and how the population exchange took place. The British bases, especially the one in Akrotiri, played a major part in the process, which was forced on the RoC.

Second point regarding who is a Cypriot and who is not. Our nationality laws are based on the British nationality acts. We all know damn well who is and who is not British, the same tests apply in Cyprus.

Third, about Zan and his idiotic remarks about Greeks being imported in Cyprus by the British or anyone else. THis is pure idiocy. The dialect itself is enough to prove that there were no imports of Greeks, if there were we would have some linguistic remnants of mainland idiom. In addition during the British colonial rule there were strict rules about residence. I know this for a fact from a very close case, my mother was Greek, my father met her when he was a volunteer officer in the Royal Navy, yet she could not move to Cyprus for months till she was cleared under the Aliens Act. In the end she had to take British nationality inorder to stay in Cyprus.

So Zan please cut the crap and give us facts, if you have them.

You might now understand a LITTLE about the way it feels when you guys are being so racist and xenophobic about Turks in general. You might just understand the fear we feel when you indiscriminately want to remove innocent people from Cyprus and we have no idea where you will want to stop. You might just get an inkling of why we distrust such an over zealous need to remove people from the island when it is clear that more people are needed on the island. It is possible that you will feel threatened with such a prospect happening to you and yours in that if we probe hard enough we can find many that will not fully qualify in the scheme. You may...But you will ignore them and continue your quest to take away any security and advantage we might have in Cyprus so that you can perhaps visit a church that most have not been to since that bloody thing was built or maybe a village hat you have no intention of going back to because time has taken away the need.

[zan]

Well folks, you are all certainly giving me food for thought. I do want to clarify that I wanted to use the Sudetenland 1938 crisis as a generalized comparision , not a direct parallel as there were differing political undertones to the basic issue of minority rights in foreign countries. Still, I am pleased to read that thus far there does not seem to be a mood from the Greek Cypriot contributors on this thread for removal of the Turkish Cypriot populace should a unitary state result. Thank you all for your input.

How can they be honest about such a thing utu.....How can you expect them to throw away the only chance to convince the world that they honestly believe we are part of Cyprus...An important part. I hope you are not serious in thinking about taking the results of one short thread and ignoring what has been said and done on every thread that has had the misfortune of hosting their thoughts.

[Nikephoros]

Part of my thesis entails historical parallels that could apply to the Cyprus problem. ...

I would like to get some sound arguments for the forum folk that both support and debunk this historical precedent to help my work on this part of the thesis (135 pages and counting thus far). ...

I am sure due to your lack of historical acumen and overall ineptitude that this thesis will be royal crap.