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[zan]

Whats up Oracle aren't we talking Off to a wedding now....Perhaps you could think about what I asked...

[Oracle]

Whats up Oracle aren't we talking Off to a wedding now....Perhaps you could think about what I asked...

Sorry Zan .... I only had five minutes to spare so answered CopperLine because his post was before yours (also he's not often around whereas you and I are always bumping into each other).

I read your question and Magnus answered it beautifully for you .... I would only have linked it up to memes as an extra but no more.

I want to give your comment to Susan Blackmore's "teme" postulate my full attention ... and I need to watch the video again in light of what you said. (Scientists are really poor communicators).

Have a great time at the wedding .... enjoy all those cultural memes copied from the Greeks

I'll post it again in case anyone else would care to watch it for comments ... especially any IT people .....


http://www.ted.com/index.php/talks/susa ... temes.html

[CopperLine]

Maybe humanity means something different to a biologist as to what it does to an International Lawyer .

Neither a matter of biologists or lawyers. No, not quite so grand. Yet again Oracle attempts to sacrifice the general and received understanding of the English language for her own private language.

Although this could be an alternative explanation

(Scientists are really poor communicators).

(though I don't believe this to be the case. Just some 'scientists').

[Oracle]

Maybe humanity means something different to a biologist as to what it does to an International Lawyer .

Neither a matter of biologists or lawyers. No, not quite so grand. Yet again Oracle attempts to sacrifice the general and received understanding of the English language for her own private language.

Although this could be an alternative explanation

(Scientists are really poor communicators).

(though I don't believe this to be the case. Just some 'scientists').

Please look back over your posts CopperLine and tell me what the sum contribution has been from you ....

You are the perfect die-hard racist who does now want to see an end to the myth that Humans can be divided genetically into races. You fought hard, but failed.

As I said there are rich rewards for racists like CopperLine ....

But I take it now you accept you are wrong, since you have resorted to personal abuse ....

[Oracle]

Very interesting video Oracle. I don't know if you wanted a reaction from complete novices like me on this issue but I still cannot separate memes and temes from the original survival of the fittest.

From Blackmore's point of view ... she is trying to make out that memes are a purely Human phenomenon. This is a fallacy.

She has wrecked the original exciting idea proposed by Dawkins as to the existence of memes .... cultural, heritable units ... co-existing in parallel to genes and in my opinion impinging on genes by altering which ones are expressed from one generation to the next ... not by mutation (necessary in the theory of evolution) but methylation (subtle easily alterable change) ... which would have brought it into the realms of pure science and where I thought it was headed before Blackmore took over. Her teme postulate is far removed form this meme concept and she is running before she can walk.

Genes mutate during replication and as such might become more suitable or less so for the environment of their host. So they are more/less likely to survive and get passed on to another generation etc. Memes IMHO should be those processes that happen in the womb or shortly after that lead to certain of our genes being expressed in different ways depending on the subtle changes in our environment (secondary effects) such as the type of food, music, language etc we are experiencing. They may even be alterable in adults.

But instead of providing evidence for this, she has jumped onto the technology bandwagon and proposed this third set of information parasites, temes ... which actually have no attachment to us ... take a child away from the laptop put him in a backward village and presto resort back to peasant. ..... talking and dancing and singing (memes). Still thriving. But maybe not as attractive to a city geek looking for an IT compatible partner


As I said .... bad communicators .... try another approach.

If you take a culture of bacteria and add an antibiotic to it which they are sensitive to ... grow the culture; eventually all would die off except the one which had mutated to be resistant to the Antibiotic ..... keep growing the culture and pretty soon all the survivors are resistant to the antibiotic. That is survival of the fittest.

But take a culture of bacteria which can either grow in glucose or lactose ... add glucose and lactose to the growth medium and their glucose metabolizing genes are switched on because they prefer glucose ... when the glucose is used up they have to switch off the glucose metabolising genes and switch on the lactose ones ... that is a type of meme in action although it is encoded for in their genes.

Another slant ... Blackmore seems to think memes are unique to humans ... but many other species show cultural diversity too ...chimps cracking nuts with stones ... as a meme that habit gets copied to other chimps that have witnessed the performance.

I could go on ... but I hope you have a drift that I know will spur you on to your own ideas.

[CopperLine]

Oracle you really are quite silly.

The view that human beings are not of one single race, genetically speaking, was not something I had said or ever have said. This is something you imagined, lord knows why ?

want to see an end to the myth that Humans can be divided genetically into races. You fought hard, but failed.

For some unfathomable reason - and probably a quite uninteresting reason - you attributed a view to me that I do not and have never held. The simple reason that I 'failed' to fight is because there wasn't an argument to be had in the first place. Your habit of setting up straw (or virtual) figures to knock down is quite boring. It is boredom which induces lack of response to your habitual silliness but you take lack of response as a sign of 'defeat'. I assure you, it is boredom.

Saying that some 'scientists' - as opposed to all scientists - may be poor communicators is hardly personal abuse ! It hardly stands as unfair compared with your own generalisations.

[Oracle]

Oracle you really are quite silly.

The view that human beings are not of one single race, genetically speaking, was not something I had said or ever have said. This is something you imagined, lord knows why ?

want to see an end to the myth that Humans can be divided genetically into races. You fought hard, but failed.

For some unfathomable reason - and probably a quite uninteresting reason - you attributed a view to me that I do not and have never held. The simple reason that I 'failed' to fight is because there wasn't an argument to be had in the first place. Your habit of setting up straw (or virtual) figures to knock down is quite boring. It is boredom which induces lack of response to your habitual silliness but you take lack of response as a sign of 'defeat'. I assure you, it is boredom.

Saying that some 'scientists' - as opposed to all scientists - may be poor communicators is hardly personal abuse ! It hardly stands as unfair compared with your own generalisations.

Good, now let's see you stop accusing people of racism when they express a natural human emotion.

[CopperLine]

What, stop describing someone as racist when they express racist views ? Why ever would one want do that ?

A 'natural human emotion' ? Expressing hatred towards a group of people - some 70 million - whom you have never met, do not wish to meet, whose language you express contempt for, whose cultural history you loathe ... and you call that a 'natural human emotion' but resent the more accurate and more honest description of those expressions : racism.

[Oracle]

What, stop describing someone as racist when they express racist views ? Why ever would one want do that ?

A 'natural human emotion' ? Expressing hatred towards a group of people - some 70 million - whom you have never met, do not wish to meet, whose language you express contempt for, whose cultural history you loathe ... and you call that a 'natural human emotion' but resent the more accurate and more honest description of those expressions : racism.

By your definition if I said "I love Turks" I would still be a racist .... Because the "hate" or "love" parts are the independent human emotions ... But it is what your idea of what a Turk is, that makes you a racist.

[Oracle]

What, stop describing someone as racist when they express racist views ? Why ever would one want do that ?

Perhaps because it conflicts with what you said previously ...

The view that human beings are not of one single race, genetically speaking, was not something I had said or ever have said. This is something you imagined, lord knows why ?