Cyprus-Forum.com

[Tim Drayton]

Let's quote the original claim:

"... interesting to see Real estate in the occupied areas being sold on this site"

The implication is that this is a site devoted to the sale of real estate in the occupied areas. Eureka! I think we have a testable hypothesis.

The hypothesis:

"All the real estate advertised on the link provided is in the occupied areas"

How can we test this hypothesis? Scientific inquiry in the Western world, as you know, is conducted in accordance with Karl Popper's theses as expounded in "The Logic of Scientific Discovery". One important tenet is that we can never prove the truth, only the falsehood of a hypothesis. A corollary of this is that we only have to prove the falsehood of a hypothesis once in order to dismiss it.

Well, let's test this hypothesis. The first property listed is located in Paralimni. My map of Cyprus shows that this is not situated in the occupied areas. Hypothesis disproved.

[Oracle]

Tim ... posting the workings of your mind just make you look more dim!

Humanist did not say "all" ... you cannot add words to his comment to invent a "hypothesis" just so that you can disprove to suit yourself.

His comment was:

... interesting to see Real estate in the occupied areas being sold on this site ...

No quantity was expressed.

The fact that even one was found (I did not look for more) is enough to qualify his statement.

[Nikitas]

The missing link mentioned by Tim is corruption, which in most cases is a subsystem invented inorder to bypass laws and regulations. Which explains how, despite the laws prohibiting the sale of GC property, thousands of parxcels of land have been sold and built on since 1974.

As to the concrete jungle complaint expressed by Tess. It is a recurring complaint expressed mostly by the "pioneers" who first "colonise" a virgin spot. It is natural that others will follow and that land will become overbuilt. One way to prevent the phenomenon is to PAY the owners of undeveloped land to keep it pristine. But who would ever hand over cash to anyone to ensure that they do NOTHING! So if we are not willing to pay for a pristine environment and the only way its owners can get ahead in life is by building,then they will build. Who can blame them!

[Tim Drayton]

The missing link mentioned by Tim is corruption, which in most cases is a subsystem invented inorder to bypass laws and regulations. Which explains how, despite the laws prohibiting the sale of GC property, thousands of parxcels of land have been sold and built on since 1974.

As to the concrete jungle complaint expressed by Tess. It is a recurring complaint expressed mostly by the "pioneers" who first "colonise" a virgin spot. It is natural that others will follow and that land will become overbuilt. One way to prevent the phenomenon is to PAY the owners of undeveloped land to keep it pristine. But who would ever hand over cash to anyone to ensure that they do NOTHING! So if we are not willing to pay for a pristine environment and the only way its owners can get ahead in life is by building,then they will build. Who can blame them!

I think another explanation may be that foreigners are buying based on documentation that confers possession rather than ownership of the property and that thus, even under TRNC law, they have no secure title to the property. Caveat emptor, as I believe they say.

[Nikitas]

Caveat Emptor, advice easily overcome by a low price.

On the other hand, once a settlement is reached the TC authorities will be able to point to the fine print in the title deed and tell foreign buyers that they were forwarned all along. It reminds me of a person I have done business with once in the past, and never again.

[CopperLine]

Tim Drayton, repent immediately before the one and only Oracle who shamelessly turns the word mostly into the word only. Your 'error' is to have a care.

[Tim Drayton]

Caveat Emptor, advice easily overcome by a low price.

On the other hand, once a settlement is reached the TC authorities will be able to point to the fine print in the title deed and tell foreign buyers that they were forwarned all along. It reminds me of a person I have done business with once in the past, and never again.

I agree, because the TC authorities have argued that this property was nationalised as a temporary expedient pending the achievement of a lasting settlement. It is perhaps ironic, but mechanisms appear to exist even under TRNC legislation for divesting the buyers of GC property of their acquisitions if a solution is achieved.

[CopperLine]

This is a fascinating political and legal issue and one which will be impossible to negotiate to the satisfaction of all.

There is a common fallacy that because the TRNC is not recognised that therefore it is lawless : it is not lawless. There are basically two sets of law pulling in different directions with regards any settlement, namely TRNC law (which is an odd amalgam of British colonial law, 1960 RoC law, increasingly overlayed by Turkish law or practice), and then there is occupation law which Turkey administers as it is bound to under international law, as the occupying power. In addition and to make things yet more complicated there are numerous international legal instruments which have force in and over the TRNC irrespective of recognition. Most important amongst this last set is international human rights law (and occupation law itself).

Here the metaphor of the Gordian knot is apt. Untangling the competing claims, principles, remedies and penalties of this complex of laws is nigh on impossible. So the political temptation is just to cut and slice through the knot. But to do so runs the serious danger of subverting the very laws upon which the whole Cyprus question is predicated. The key issues in law are always (1) which is the pertinent or operative law and (2) on what grounds is the case to be made. For example, you could take a land dispossession case as a property law case, a contract law case, a tort case, a trust case or, increasingly in Cyprus, as a human rights case. Any politically negotiated settlement is going to have to come to a decision on which, if any of those laws, will no longer be allowed (or at least discouraged).

[Tim Drayton]

This is a fascinating political and legal issue and one which will be impossible to negotiate to the satisfaction of all.

There is a common fallacy that because the TRNC is not recognised that therefore it is lawless : it is not lawless. There are basically two sets of law pulling in different directions with regards any settlement, namely TRNC law (which is an odd amalgam of British colonial law, 1960 RoC law, increasingly overlayed by Turkish law or practice), and then there is occupation law which Turkey administers as it is bound to under international law, as the occupying power. In addition and to make things yet more complicated there are numerous international legal instruments which have force in and over the TRNC irrespective of recognition. Most important amongst this last set is international human rights law (and occupation law itself).

Here the metaphor of the Gordian knot is apt. Untangling the competing claims, principles, remedies and penalties of this complex of laws is nigh on impossible. So the political temptation is just to cut and slice through the knot. But to do so runs the serious danger of subverting the very laws upon which the whole Cyprus question is predicated. The key issues in law are always (1) which is the pertinent or operative law and (2) on what grounds is the case to be made. For example, you could take a land dispossession case as a property law case, a contract law case, a tort case, a trust case or, increasingly in Cyprus, as a human rights case. Any politically negotiated settlement is going to have to come to a decision on which, if any of those laws, will no longer be allowed (or at least discouraged).

So different from the glib promises and claims that you find on websites advertising Greek Cypriot owned property for sale.

[pantheman]

Try this one Tim .... hardly UN monitored area ..... http://www.europeanproperty.com/sales/p ... 084-AGY101

Fair point. On the other hand all the properties shown on the page you first provided a link to are in fact in the unoccupied part of Cyprus. It is unusual to find properties in both parts of the island advertised on the same site.

Tim, you are wrong here. there are many agents that advertise properties in both sides.

Even the main ones like rightmove.co.uk will give you some.

cheers