Cyprus-Forum.com

[Oracle]

I was watching a tv programme about Cypriots who fought with the allies in Italy. The presenter asked one of them to describe something that really struck out. The old soldier, without hesitation, immediately replied "the way the Poles killed Germans".

How can we be looking for justice in a war? War is all about taking lives and there is no way to feel at ease with this, even if the bad guys lose out.

It is true that the Turkish army went on a rampage, killing captives and spreading terror and fear in its passage. Yet, last April I attended the funeral of my fellow villager Kkitros who was laid to rest after so many years when his bones were eventually identified. Sevgul Uludag was there too. The nephew of Kkitros (a lawyer I believe) gave an unbelievably balanced speech, despite his sorrow. He told the large crowed that attended the funeral that the Turkish army started executing people after the mass graves were discovered in Aloa, Sandalaris and another village whose name I do not remember now. There, women and children were brutaly murdered by Greek Cypriots.

War brings the worse out of people. Everybody is capable of atrocities during war times. The Americans did it at Mi Lai in Vietnam and the cultured French behaved barbarously in Algeria. The Greek army in Asia minor was no better, according to Dido Soteriou (Matomena Chomata - also translated into Turkish. All must read this masterpiece). We took patients out of their hospital beds in 1963 and threw them down wells, after we put a bullet in their head.

It is the duty of all Cypriots to strive so that we and our childern and our childrens children do not have to go through this agony again. If we insist on counting who murdered more and who less we will be missing the point and end up like Piratis et al who think that justice is a matter of statistics. We need to bury the hatchet. We need peace here and now and now that a new effort is made we should be encouraging our leaders to move positively towards peace. The blame game feeds only the war monster. Even if things seem difficult we should never give up.

One final thought. There are bad people in both communities. We know who they are and it is up to us to cut their murdering hands. This can only be achieved if we get the peace we deserve. Otherwise we might as well feed the minautor of hate with more young blood.

Basically you are saying let's forget what happened because it was carried out by Turks.

A misconstrued death of one TC in 1963 is worth a special mention by you to remind us of our "crimes" ... without any back-up evidence ... yet thousands of war crimes by Turkey against GCs had best be "buried as a hatchet" and not be used in mere statistic games.

I wouldn't be surprised if your misogynistic tendencies aren't helping you sweep this article under the carpet as irrelevant details to the all-important goal of having your beloved Turkey on our soil....

[Medman]

Put it one way Zan. If the Brits want to defeat the Taliban in Afghanistan, they could drop her behind enemy lines. The Taliban will change religion, give up and conform. However they wouldn't want sex with it. She's 12 pints beautiful, in that after 12 pints she looks like sex on legs.....

[zan]

I was watching a tv programme about Cypriots who fought with the allies in Italy. The presenter asked one of them to describe something that really struck out. The old soldier, without hesitation, immediately replied "the way the Poles killed Germans".

How can we be looking for justice in a war? War is all about taking lives and there is no way to feel at ease with this, even if the bad guys lose out.

It is true that the Turkish army went on a rampage, killing captives and spreading terror and fear in its passage. Yet, last April I attended the funeral of my fellow villager Kkitros who was laid to rest after so many years when his bones were eventually identified. Sevgul Uludag was there too. The nephew of Kkitros (a lawyer I believe) gave an unbelievably balanced speech, despite his sorrow. He told the large crowed that attended the funeral that the Turkish army started executing people after the mass graves were discovered in Aloa, Sandalaris and another village whose name I do not remember now. There, women and children were brutaly murdered by Greek Cypriots.

War brings the worse out of people. Everybody is capable of atrocities during war times. The Americans did it at Mi Lai in Vietnam and the cultured French behaved barbarously in Algeria. The Greek army in Asia minor was no better, according to Dido Soteriou (Matomena Chomata - also translated into Turkish. All must read this masterpiece). We took patients out of their hospital beds in 1963 and threw them down wells, after we put a bullet in their head.

It is the duty of all Cypriots to strive so that we and our childern and our childrens children do not have to go through this agony again. If we insist on counting who murdered more and who less we will be missing the point and end up like Piratis et al who think that justice is a matter of statistics. We need to bury the hatchet. We need peace here and now and now that a new effort is made we should be encouraging our leaders to move positively towards peace. The blame game feeds only the war monster. Even if things seem difficult we should never give up.

One final thought. There are bad people in both communities. We know who they are and it is up to us to cut their murdering hands. This can only be achieved if we get the peace we deserve. Otherwise we might as well feed the minautor of hate with more young blood.

Basically you are saying let's forget what happened because it was carried out by Turks.

A misconstrued death of one TC in 1963 is worth a special mention by you to remind us of our "crimes" ... without any back-up evidence ... yet thousands of war crimes by Turkey against GCs had best be "buried as a hatchet" and not be used in mere statistic games.

I wouldn't be surprised if your misogynistic tendencies aren't helping you sweep this article under the carpet as irrelevant details to the all-important goal of having your beloved Turkey on our soil....

Then at least admit your crimes and the fact that you took our country away from us and then you will be more believable......This is not a plea because I know it will not happen. You coming up with lies and distortions will give me either a two state system or recognition...Either will do...I am tired of waiting for you to come to your senses...

[T_C]

I believe totally that the Turks did horrible things to GCs so it doesnt matter where the stories come from...but they did the same to us, exactly the same things. Yet most of them carry on like their shit dont stink...

[Magnus]

Both sides have suffered and these acts are dispicable and grotesque.

Shouldnt you GCs be prosecuting those that pushed you into the fire, you had 11 years to build a united Cyprus yet you choose to exclude and discriminate against TCs to the benefit of purely GCs. You must have known that your own actions would have exploded in your faces and the consequences of which you complain today would have occured, surely no community can be that naive or did you believe Turkey would never come to the rescue of the TCs. Remember the songs "you waited but they didnt arrive" yuo GCs used to taunt us? Are you really saying that you expected to be handled with kid gloves after your vile acts against TCs?

VP, thanks for your perspective. I feel that the issue here isn't so much to do with the motivation for the invasion (or intervention if you prefer) itself but the atrocities carried out by the Turkish military against the civilian population, particularly in the light that some of the atrocities happened after the agreed ceasefire.

I would be very interested to hear if you have any recollections of those times yourself, as I am concerned that depsite the obvious level of atrocities committed there doesn't seem to be anyone willing to admit that they were aware that these things were happening. I find it most difficult to believe that people in mixed villages were unaware of what was happening to their neighbours.

Considering that the perpetrators of such actions are the ones who are your 'lifejacket', how do you feel about them as individuals? Personally I don't think I could live amongst such men, regardless of their connection to me.

[bill cobbett]

So no serious comments about this article? Just a couple of sarcastic musings from a pair of morons who don't have the cojones to provide a logical counter-argument backed up by credible evidence?

How about some sort of denial from our resident extremists? Or maybe a bit of false symapthy from the 'non-aligned'? Better yet, why doesn't one of our lovely GC 'moderates' tell me that it's things like those in the article that mean we should sign over half the island to the Turks and rewrite the history books so we can be 'brothers' with them?

Maybe you're all busy flirting with bored housewives and thinking up words for those 'Game' threads.

We KNOW the anger you feel when you read stuff like that and most TCs will totally relate to your comment about being ''brothers'', the false sympathy and what have you...

You also put us through the same things Magnus, and Ive posted many articles like the one below only to get the same ''I dont give a shit'' response from most GCs (which usually comes in form of ''what good will come out of this post'' ).

http://www.cyprus-forum.com/viewtopic.p ... resistance

You show no sympathy to us so I dont even know why youd even expect false sympathy in return.

I see the old gramophone record about 1963 is out again. What a load of nonsense from TC when he says "You also put us through the same things", presumably 63? and also voiced by others. No one in their right mind would find the events of 74 and 63 comparable. The events of 74 from the first landings were a deliberate and regrettably successful attempt at large scale terrorism of the vilest and most inhumane type as the journalist in the article above testifies. Such wide-scale animal-like behaviour by the foul Turkish Army and its supporters could only have been a result of encouragement and orders from above to murder, torture and rape and thereby create the terror to ethnically cleanse the north. Was this like 63 in the nature and scale of atrocities?

Bananiot says: ( forgive me for quoting in part - but it is a whole sentence)

"It is true that the Turkish army went on a rampage, killing captives and spreading terror and fear in its passage."

A "rampage" eh? What an weak and wholly inappropriate word to describe the most brutal episode of plain and simple whole-scale murder and terrorism that Europe had seen since WW2 and one inflicted on his own countrymen. A "passage" eh? What does this mean - a few nice neat corridors? No, it was systematic and country-wide. A Final Solution.

I hope I am not alone in having no time for these apologists and others with their attempts at revisionism of history.

Some would do well to bear in mind that the events and atrocities of 74 will be ingrained in to the Cypriot psyche and conscience for many generations to come. It will define Cy for years. Please consider not belittling the tragedy or qualifying it (let alone justifying it) to even the smallest extent.

(May all victims and their families of both communities find peace)

[denizaksulu]

Bill Cobett says: (May all victims and their families of both communities find peace)

Amen to that.

[zan]

Both sides have suffered and these acts are dispicable and grotesque.

Shouldnt you GCs be prosecuting those that pushed you into the fire, you had 11 years to build a united Cyprus yet you choose to exclude and discriminate against TCs to the benefit of purely GCs. You must have known that your own actions would have exploded in your faces and the consequences of which you complain today would have occured, surely no community can be that naive or did you believe Turkey would never come to the rescue of the TCs. Remember the songs "you waited but they didnt arrive" yuo GCs used to taunt us? Are you really saying that you expected to be handled with kid gloves after your vile acts against TCs?

VP, thanks for your perspective. I feel that the issue here isn't so much to do with the motivation for the invasion (or intervention if you prefer) itself but the atrocities carried out by the Turkish military against the civilian population, particularly in the light that some of the atrocities happened after the agreed ceasefire.

I would be very interested to hear if you have any recollections of those times yourself, as I am concerned that depsite the obvious level of atrocities committed there doesn't seem to be anyone willing to admit that they were aware that these things were happening. I find it most difficult to believe that people in mixed villages were unaware of what was happening to their neighbours.

Considering that the perpetrators of such actions are the ones who are your 'lifejacket', how do you feel about them as individuals? Personally I don't think I could live amongst such men, regardless of their connection to me.

Magnus...The GCs were fighting back...Turkey did not just rampage through....What planet are you guys living on

[Magnus]

Oh no, how can 'The Sun' be deemed a worthwhile newspaper source? The paper is the most read and over rated tabloid in the UK and not newsworthy. Excellent for its xenophobia and promoting all things David Beckham. Atrocities were committed on both sides in Cyprus. Were they that informed and concise when the Americans were gang banging their way around Vietnam. Course not! C'mon people you have your own opinions on Cyprus and you're relying on this worthless rag to push through your point of view. Get the front page of 'The Sun' today. Look whats on the front. Jade Goody a minor 'C' list celebrity of Big Brother fame (TV reality show) has taken crack! Great! Have you seen her, no one could want sex that much!

The Sun's modern reputation (and David Beckham, Jade Goody et al) have absolutely no relevance on the accuracy of the article. The point is that this article was written by a British reporter for a well-known newspaper that has absolutely no connection to Greek Cypriots or the Republic of Cyprus. I didn't want to be accused of posting 'propaganda' written by Greek Cypriots.

I am surprised that you can dismiss it so readily, but I can assure you there is more to come form other sources so stick around if you are interested.

[zan]

So no serious comments about this article? Just a couple of sarcastic musings from a pair of morons who don't have the cojones to provide a logical counter-argument backed up by credible evidence?

How about some sort of denial from our resident extremists? Or maybe a bit of false symapthy from the 'non-aligned'? Better yet, why doesn't one of our lovely GC 'moderates' tell me that it's things like those in the article that mean we should sign over half the island to the Turks and rewrite the history books so we can be 'brothers' with them?

Maybe you're all busy flirting with bored housewives and thinking up words for those 'Game' threads.

We KNOW the anger you feel when you read stuff like that and most TCs will totally relate to your comment about being ''brothers'', the false sympathy and what have you...

You also put us through the same things Magnus, and Ive posted many articles like the one below only to get the same ''I dont give a shit'' response from most GCs (which usually comes in form of ''what good will come out of this post'' ).

http://www.cyprus-forum.com/viewtopic.p ... resistance

You show no sympathy to us so I dont even know why youd even expect false sympathy in return.

I see the old gramophone record about 1963 is out again. What a load of nonsense from TC when he says "You also put us through the same things", presumably 63? and also voiced by others. No one in their right mind would find the events of 74 and 63 comparable. The events of 74 from the first landings were a deliberate and regrettably successful attempt at large scale terrorism of the vilest and most inhumane type as the journalist in the article above testifies. Such wide-scale animal-like behaviour by the foul Turkish Army and its supporters could only have been a result of encouragement and orders from above to murder, torture and rape and thereby create the terror to ethnically cleanse the north. Was this like 63 in the nature and scale of atrocities?

Bananiot says: ( forgive me for quoting in part - but it is a whole sentence)

"It is true that the Turkish army went on a rampage, killing captives and spreading terror and fear in its passage."

A "rampage" eh? What an weak and wholly inappropriate word to describe the most brutal episode of plain and simple whole-scale murder and terrorism that Europe had seen since WW2 and one inflicted on his own countrymen. A "passage" eh? What does this mean - a few nice neat corridors? No, it was systematic and country-wide. A Final Solution.

I hope I am not alone in having no time for these apologists and others with their attempts at revisionism of history.

Some would do well to bear in mind that the events and atrocities of 74 will be ingrained in to the Cypriot psyche and conscience for many generations to come. It will define Cy for years. Please consider not belittling the tragedy or qualifying it (let alone justifying it) to even the smallest extent.

(May all victims and their families of both communities find peace)

1963 was enough to stay in the mind of a 3 year old and manifest itself in depression when that boy was 40....You justifying your crimes and trying to make one worse than the other is just as disturbing as it was to me then so cut the crap Bobbit!!!!