Cyprus-Forum.com

[Nikitas]

"One of my Greek Cypriot friends told me:

`You are naive you know, in every war, they rape women… Women are considered the spoils of war… This is how the men show that they are `conquerors`… And Cyprus has not been any different…` "

THis is from Swevgul Uludag quoted above.

This opinion that harming civilians deliberately or accidentally is unavoidable in war is the biggest load of crap ever. The moment an army comes into contact with civilians it loses its effectiveness. In a real war soldiers are so busy they should have no time to rape or loot.

And one more point, not one single rape or act of looting has been attributed to ELDYK soldiers. In the end we have to admit that the only soldiers who behaved like soldiers between July 20 1974 till the end of hostilities were the mainland Greeks. Not that this absolves them from any blame for the coup, but we have to give Cesar his due. It is ironic that that to this day the Greek soldiers who fought in Cyprus have not received any official recognition, no pensions, not even medical care for the wounded. Whereas all those who did carry out rapes and looting, TCs, mainland Turks and GCs, are free and often rewarded for their heroic actions with property or government jobs or both.

[zan]

"One of my Greek Cypriot friends told me:

`You are naive you know, in every war, they rape women… Women are considered the spoils of war… This is how the men show that they are `conquerors`… And Cyprus has not been any different…` "

THis is from Swevgul Uludag quoted above.

This opinion that harming civilians deliberately or accidentally is unavoidable in war is the biggest load of crap ever. The moment an army comes into contact with civilians it loses its effectiveness. In a real war soldiers are so busy they should have no time to rape or loot.

And one more point, not one single rape or act of looting has been attributed to ELDYK soldiers. In the end we have to admit that the only soldiers who behaved like soldiers between July 20 1974 till the end of hostilities were the mainland Greeks. Not that this absolves them from any blame for the coup, but we have to give Cesar his due. It is ironic that that to this day the Greek soldiers who fought in Cyprus have not received any official recognition, no pensions, not even medical care for the wounded. Whereas all those who did carry out rapes and looting, TCs, mainland Turks and GCs, are free and often rewarded for their heroic actions with property or government jobs or both.

Who was doing the dirty deeds to the GCs in the coup before Turkey came Nikitas????? Do you think that any of those were blamed on the Turks along with everything else???

[Nikitas]

I clearly stated that they are not absolved from blame for the coup. But even during the coup there was no raping or looting by mainland Greek soldiers. And definitely none during the July and August fighting. A simple fact which we all tend to overlook.

No killing during the coup has been blamed on anyone else. Next time you visit Cyprus you can go to any cemetery and read the dates on the graves. They are in big letters and numbers.

[zan]

I clearly stated that they are not absolved from blame for the coup. But even during the coup there was no raping or looting by mainland Greek soldiers. And definitely none during the July and August fighting. A simple fact which we all tend to overlook.

No killing during the coup has been blamed on anyone else. Next time you visit Cyprus you can go to any cemetery and read the dates on the graves. They are in big letters and numbers.

Oh come off it Nikitas...You are just being pig headed. Numbers as high as 2000 have been quoted as being killed by the Greeks before Turkey even set foot on Cyprus. It is just Greek propaganda that has stopped the truth. The dates on the graves prove nothing but the intent of the people that generated them.

[Nikitas]

Zan,

What Greek propaganda are you talking about? Have you read a Greek paper or seen a newscast on Greek TV? The majority of media are privately owned and anti government.

The figures you quote are absurd. Check on the points of serious conflict during the coup, the presidential palace, RIK, the offices of EDEK socialist party, several police stations around Cyprus. The fights were short and casualties few. I have family members jailed during the coup alond with others and none report of any one being executed. My uncle was pretty high on the list of anticoup people and he was warned to stay away from his job, he was not even arrested.

And it is you who is being pig headed when you suggest that gravestones can be written to order of some propaganda ministry. You sound like an aparatchnik from the stalin years.

[miltiades]

We shall see Deniz

My ideas have not changed one iota , they have been consistent all along.
The difference here is that I do not for one second agree that Turkey , the nation that 80% of Cypriots consider to be the invader of their nation , can possibly be a guarantor . There are other International forces the EU for one that would be acceptable to all parties since on arriving at a solution the T/Cs will have a voice at the EU .
We must make progress and move away from the highly contagious and highly inflammatory connections with Turkey and Greece, after all these are the two nations that divide our people. We can move on for as long as one or the other side do not demand direct interference from the two "cancers" of Cyprus.
As far you Zan I think is time to concentrate on building bridges of trust for our people not installing mines . I have posted more than 6 thousand posts , not once have I spewed hatred against our people , only against the fanatics who are entirely responsible for the pain and suffering of our people.Try doing the same mate.

First of all...Lets get this straight...You have made a statement about allowing my rights under the Zurich agreement but then added and "more" to the sentence....You need to be more specific. Do you want the Zurich agreement or are you telling me what you have been consistent in saying in that you think the EU laws is what you are talking about. You have no real intention of going back to the Zurich agreement. In my eyes you are just picking your words...Am I right?


You have and are constantly spewing out hatred towards my motherland. I can understand why you hate Greece after what they did but Turkey came and saved my aunts and cousins from certain death so I have respect for what they did. Perhaps more people on the island should show the same respect and understand circumstances but hey ho! What I intend to do is give you a more balanced understanding of the world and your bigoted view of all things Turkish or Muslim. You are no different to all those here that think that they can make themselves look better by running others down. Kikapu seems to suffer from the same affliction but does not know or accept what is going on on his own doorstep. How you can then not show some humility and accept what has happened in Cyprus and how we look to the rest of the world is beyond me. You have proved yourself once again by going on about the majority in Cyprus ruling the island but do not accept that special conditions have to be made because of the way things are in Cyprus.....What we are telling you is you are not going to get it all your own way. Turkey is needed by us in our hearts and in our minds.

I said you have the same rights as I have , NO MORE AND NO LESS .
Zurich agreement 1 billion percent . EU as a guarantor 2 billion percent , Turkey as a guarantor NO WAY !!
This I hope answers your question.
As far as me spewing hatred towards your "motherland" well sorry mate it ain't my motherland and neither is Greece , my motherland is Cyprus , therefore those whose allegiance is to a foreign power have a perfect right to go and join their respective motherlands.
Turkey is a vast country , a poor country , a country whose people are still struggling to earn their daily bread , I do not hate Turkey and neither do I hate Greece but I love Cyprus and I consider it as my country and the country of those whose allegiance is to this island not some foreign power such as Turkey or Greece.
I do not think that a single T/C would willingly emigrate to Turkey do you ?

[miltiades]

A former member of a Greek Cypriot underground group defending the unification of the island with Greece has confessed in remarks to the media that the group, along with Greek Cypriot soldiers, had raped women and killed men of a Turkish Cypriot village during a campaign of attacks on the Turkish population of Cyprus three decades ago.

The group, the National Organization of Cypriot Fighters (EOKA), launched attacks on Turkish Cypriots during the 1960s and early 1970s in a violent campaign aimed at enosis, or unification of Cyprus with Greece. Andreas Dimitriu, a 67 year-old Greek Cypriot who was a member of EOKA-B, an offshoot of EOKA, during the period of ethnic violence on the island, confessed in a media interview that he had helped to gather men of the Turkish Cypriot village of Tohni (Taşkent) in a coffee house.

The men were later taken away by EOKA-B members entering the village, and all but one male Turkish Cypriot had been killed, Dimitriu told Greek Cypriot newspaper Alithia on Sunday.

He, however, said that he was unaware that the Turkish Cypriot men were to be killed and that he learned their fate a few days afterward.

Turkish Cypriot women of the village were then raped by Greek Cypriot soldiers seeking revenge on Turkish Cypriots, he also said.

“Such things were happening at that time. What did we do that was different from what was going on all over Cyprus?” he asked.

The confessions came after a Turkish Cypriot woman who had survived the Greek Cypriot violence in Taşkent village identified Dimitriu during an earlier interview with the same newspaper as the person who had taken away her father.

Her father was among those killed by EOKA-B members in the village.

Dimitriu said he had thought the men rounded up in the village's coffee house would be held captive in order to get some Greek Cypriots held by Turkish Cypriots released and said that he had no idea that these men were to be killed.

“We were given the instruction to round up all the men capable of fighting to be used for the exchange of Greek Cypriot captives. We did whatever we did together with the legal forces of the state,” Dimitriu said.

Denktaş: Confessions are striking

Turkish Cypriot President Rauf Denktaş described Dimitriu's remarks as “highly striking” and added that it was a positive development that Greek Cypriots have started talking about the past.

Denktaş also said Greek Cypriots should apologize to Turkish Cypriots for the events of 1963-1974.

Turkey intervened in Cyprus in 1974 to end attacks on Turkish Cypriots as part of the bloody enosis campaign of the era, backed by the then ruling military junta in Greece.

TC , I would agree that horrendous acts were committed by extremists under the banner of EOKA B . Victims were not only T/Cs but also G/Cs. What I find totaly distasteful is the propaganda used by Turkey to justify its invasion of Cyprus. NO TURKISH CYPRIOTS WERE KILLED 7 YEARS PRIOPR TO THE TURKISH INVASION. This is a FACT .There is NO EVIDENCE that from 1966 to the invasion date of 1974 to suggest that any T/Cs lost their lives as a result of actions by G/Cs.
There is a propaganda side that pointed to a few days ago that actually states that the T/Cs wre butchered and massacred by G/Cs with the help of Greece from , wait for it , 1912 !!!!.
One such propagandist is Zan who shares all attributes that these semi illiterate propagandists have. Zan believes that I'm an ASSASSIN. This mentality is shared by all who fall under the spell of hateful propaganda.
The truth of the matter is that the first victims of the Inter communal turmoil were G/Cs in 1958 , there followed isolated conflict until the early 60s when extremists were in charge with impunity on both sides. Sevgul's book " Oysters with the missing pearls " is an admirable contribution to the understanding of what went on both in the early 60s and during the Turkish invasion.
All evidence points conclusively that the horrific acts committed by both sides were as a result of extremism and hatred.

I am sorry that I called you an assassin Miltiades...It is clear now that you are a fool.....You keep quoting your stupid "No TCS were killed between 67/74" as if means anything. How about you add the fact that we weree still under isolation from our own country because you still had not restored our rights under the Zurich agreement. If peace reined for so long a period that why was this status not returned to us and why were we still suffering under your regime. Is it because you knew Turkey would come but waited until a time when she was weak and then you started your assault. Just like that little piece of information I found about you moving troops ready to attack when you thought that Iran was going to attack Turkey??? You are not an assassin Miltiades but a blithering idiot who who is tantamount to a german leading Jews into the gas chambers and then saying it was orders.

I think you are desperately in need of a brain transplant mate !!!
What absolute garbage you post !! From 1963 to 1974 T/Cs were under the iron fist of the Grey Wolves directly imported into Cyprus by Turkey in order to instill the fear of God into the T/Cs. You dismiss the fact that NOT A SINGLE TURKISH CYPRIOT BECAME THE VICTIM OF G/Cs FROM 1967 TO 1974 AS MEANING NOTHING AT ALL !!!!
So , HAVING REALISED THAT I'M NOT AN ASSASIN , I'm now an SS Nazi . Therefore folks please take note the propagandist has lost the plot . A proof if needed that not only is he full of propaganda lies but that everything he states is a lie.
How many T/Cs or G/Cs would agree with you that Miltiades is paramount to a NAZI leading Jews into the gas chambers .
What a PLLLONKER !!

You are a Nazi in the sense that you will lead us to our destruction, but you are right...I am a plonker because I thought I would not have to spoon feed you with every little explanation but it seems I was wrong.



Let me ask you though and if you do not understand please let me know and I will make it more simple for you. Do you believe we should have our rights back under the Zurich agreement...Yes or OXI!!!!!!

Stop being so blatantly stupid. Of course the T/Cs should have every single right given to them under the Zurich agreements , every single one and more , all are Cypriots in my eyes and their rights are equal to mine no less and no more . Would you also agree that the 160 or so thousands of Cypriots who have had their lands and properties taken away from them should be given them back , and do you also agree that the Turkish occupation of Cyprus , your country and mine , should come to an end at the earliest opportunity.
I agree 1 billion percent that the T/Cs are an integral part of the Cypriot community and as such their human rights and the protection of such is pivotal to our democracy. They have as much right as the G/Cs have.
Let me quote a clitche . A man standing on his own has as much human rights as a man standing in a crowd.

Great! then you are in favour of Turkey being a guarantor power. You must therefore agree that we are allowed back into our rightful place in government.

I have to admit that the property issue is still a problem to me. I do agree that they should be fully compensated, without the need for the greedy sums asked for, because I do not think a mass movement of people is fair to anyone.

Is this the beginning of the end chapter of this war of words. Are we watching with glee a convergence of ideas between two very prolific authors on this forum. I cant wait. Another great try by Zan with another heave by Milti, we will have PEACE at last. Christofias and Talat please take note.

Dear friend Miltiades , few munites ago Talks are started in Cyprus ....We must talk peace .... it is true as Deniz is pointing out but I felt to make some correction for your comments .
It is not true that between 67-74 not single TC were harmed or get killed.

looks like you have forgetten

In mid-November 1967 notorious terrorist leader Gen. Georgios Grivas, who had been appointed by Makarios as the supreme commander of the Greek forces and sent clandestinely to the island by the Greek government and Greek Cypriot Armed Forces, launched an attack with the Greek Cypriot National Guard and the Greek militia forces on the Turkish Cypriot village of Kophinou (Geçitkale) and the Turkish inhabitants of the neighboring village of Ayinos Theodoros (Boğaziçi) in the Larnaca district. After hours of combat, close to dusk, 28 Turks were murdered and scores of others were wounded. Turkish homes were ransacked, looted and deliberately set on fire. Some of the wounded Turkish Cypriots had kerosene poured over them and were then set on fire.

Dear friend miltiades they are in past now ,sometimes things are annoys me trying to show the things differently or not giving enough information .

when those people reads from those villages they gets angry too .... look how they are lying how they are ignoring us they says .... I am here Miltiades , İ live in Cyprus and i can understand how sensible our people .

you see in two months time November will come ,there will be memorandum they for those people who lost their life in Gecitkale and Boğaziçi .

Lets hope goods things will come out from the talks today .Talks are showing live today from our TV. I will be very bussy today .....

Halil , I'm aware of the Kofinou events of November 15th 1967. My statement said """NOT A SINGLE TURKISH CYPRIOT BECAME THE VICTIM OF G/Cs FROM 1967 TO 1974 "
I apologise it should have said since 1967 . Do you know of other killings since 1967 please point a link for me.

[zan]

Zan,

What Greek propaganda are you talking about? Have you read a Greek paper or seen a newscast on Greek TV? The majority of media are privately owned and anti government.

The figures you quote are absurd. Check on the points of serious conflict during the coup, the presidential palace, RIK, the offices of EDEK socialist party, several police stations around Cyprus. The fights were short and casualties few. I have family members jailed during the coup alond with others and none report of any one being executed. My uncle was pretty high on the list of anticoup people and he was warned to stay away from his job, he was not even arrested.

And it is you who is being pig headed when you suggest that gravestones can be written to order of some propaganda ministry. You sound like an aparatchnik from the stalin years.

So Makarios himself saying that the streets were littered with bodies and my friends father who buried these people en mass are all lying

[zan]

We shall see Deniz

My ideas have not changed one iota , they have been consistent all along.
The difference here is that I do not for one second agree that Turkey , the nation that 80% of Cypriots consider to be the invader of their nation , can possibly be a guarantor . There are other International forces the EU for one that would be acceptable to all parties since on arriving at a solution the T/Cs will have a voice at the EU .
We must make progress and move away from the highly contagious and highly inflammatory connections with Turkey and Greece, after all these are the two nations that divide our people. We can move on for as long as one or the other side do not demand direct interference from the two "cancers" of Cyprus.
As far you Zan I think is time to concentrate on building bridges of trust for our people not installing mines . I have posted more than 6 thousand posts , not once have I spewed hatred against our people , only against the fanatics who are entirely responsible for the pain and suffering of our people.Try doing the same mate.

First of all...Lets get this straight...You have made a statement about allowing my rights under the Zurich agreement but then added and "more" to the sentence....You need to be more specific. Do you want the Zurich agreement or are you telling me what you have been consistent in saying in that you think the EU laws is what you are talking about. You have no real intention of going back to the Zurich agreement. In my eyes you are just picking your words...Am I right?


You have and are constantly spewing out hatred towards my motherland. I can understand why you hate Greece after what they did but Turkey came and saved my aunts and cousins from certain death so I have respect for what they did. Perhaps more people on the island should show the same respect and understand circumstances but hey ho! What I intend to do is give you a more balanced understanding of the world and your bigoted view of all things Turkish or Muslim. You are no different to all those here that think that they can make themselves look better by running others down. Kikapu seems to suffer from the same affliction but does not know or accept what is going on on his own doorstep. How you can then not show some humility and accept what has happened in Cyprus and how we look to the rest of the world is beyond me. You have proved yourself once again by going on about the majority in Cyprus ruling the island but do not accept that special conditions have to be made because of the way things are in Cyprus.....What we are telling you is you are not going to get it all your own way. Turkey is needed by us in our hearts and in our minds.

I said you have the same rights as I have , NO MORE AND NO LESS .
Zurich agreement 1 billion percent . EU as a guarantor 2 billion percent , Turkey as a guarantor NO WAY !!
This I hope answers your question.
As far as me spewing hatred towards your "motherland" well sorry mate it ain't my motherland and neither is Greece , my motherland is Cyprus , therefore those whose allegiance is to a foreign power have a perfect right to go and join their respective motherlands.
Turkey is a vast country , a poor country , a country whose people are still struggling to earn their daily bread , I do not hate Turkey and neither do I hate Greece but I love Cyprus and I consider it as my country and the country of those whose allegiance is to this island not some foreign power such as Turkey or Greece.
I do not think that a single T/C would willingly emigrate to Turkey do you ?

How can you implement the Zurich agreement in it's entirety without Turkey then Miltiades. You have not been specific either about whether we can take our rightful place in government and exercise our veto. I still think you are choosing your words carefully. Prove me wrong. I think that you are saying that the "RoC" should stay the way it is and we should give everything up and let them have all the power.....Please be more specific.

[DT.]

We shall see Deniz

My ideas have not changed one iota , they have been consistent all along.
The difference here is that I do not for one second agree that Turkey , the nation that 80% of Cypriots consider to be the invader of their nation , can possibly be a guarantor . There are other International forces the EU for one that would be acceptable to all parties since on arriving at a solution the T/Cs will have a voice at the EU .
We must make progress and move away from the highly contagious and highly inflammatory connections with Turkey and Greece, after all these are the two nations that divide our people. We can move on for as long as one or the other side do not demand direct interference from the two "cancers" of Cyprus.
As far you Zan I think is time to concentrate on building bridges of trust for our people not installing mines . I have posted more than 6 thousand posts , not once have I spewed hatred against our people , only against the fanatics who are entirely responsible for the pain and suffering of our people.Try doing the same mate.

First of all...Lets get this straight...You have made a statement about allowing my rights under the Zurich agreement but then added and "more" to the sentence....You need to be more specific. Do you want the Zurich agreement or are you telling me what you have been consistent in saying in that you think the EU laws is what you are talking about. You have no real intention of going back to the Zurich agreement. In my eyes you are just picking your words...Am I right?


You have and are constantly spewing out hatred towards my motherland. I can understand why you hate Greece after what they did but Turkey came and saved my aunts and cousins from certain death so I have respect for what they did. Perhaps more people on the island should show the same respect and understand circumstances but hey ho! What I intend to do is give you a more balanced understanding of the world and your bigoted view of all things Turkish or Muslim. You are no different to all those here that think that they can make themselves look better by running others down. Kikapu seems to suffer from the same affliction but does not know or accept what is going on on his own doorstep. How you can then not show some humility and accept what has happened in Cyprus and how we look to the rest of the world is beyond me. You have proved yourself once again by going on about the majority in Cyprus ruling the island but do not accept that special conditions have to be made because of the way things are in Cyprus.....What we are telling you is you are not going to get it all your own way. Turkey is needed by us in our hearts and in our minds.

I said you have the same rights as I have , NO MORE AND NO LESS .
Zurich agreement 1 billion percent . EU as a guarantor 2 billion percent , Turkey as a guarantor NO WAY !!
This I hope answers your question.
As far as me spewing hatred towards your "motherland" well sorry mate it ain't my motherland and neither is Greece , my motherland is Cyprus , therefore those whose allegiance is to a foreign power have a perfect right to go and join their respective motherlands.
Turkey is a vast country , a poor country , a country whose people are still struggling to earn their daily bread , I do not hate Turkey and neither do I hate Greece but I love Cyprus and I consider it as my country and the country of those whose allegiance is to this island not some foreign power such as Turkey or Greece.
I do not think that a single T/C would willingly emigrate to Turkey do you ?

How can you implement the Zurich agreement in it's entirety without Turkey then Miltiades. You have not been specific either about whether we can take our rightful place in government and exercise our veto. I still think you are choosing your words carefully. Prove me wrong. I think that you are saying that the "RoC" should stay the way it is and we should give everything up and let them have all the power.....Please be more specific.

Turkey forfeited its right to be included in the Treaty of Gaurantee when it broke the last one.