Cyprus-Forum.com

[Oracle]

You GCs are ignorant SHEEP and we wouldnt expect nothing more from the likes of you, so who cares what you believe...

Sorry DT

I just get SO ANGRY on here sometimes

You are only angry because you have made a claim to something you have no evidence for, instead making a weak excuse that we forced our victims to give evidence and you did not.

I'm getting out of my comfort zone ... so this is the last thing I'm saying on the matter. But I went to the trouble of raking up some evidence ON YOUR BEHALF .... and credible it was too; Telegraph/Sevgal ... yet I was told it was not good enough by Denis and Zan and I was meant to find you others!

Why should I?... it was your claim, you back it up or take it back.

I'm not reading any more links to find the one plausible TC victim, because the GC casualties were overwhelming.

[T_C]

Im angry because I know people who have suffered these things. What do you want me to do? Go take pictures of them? Record them on camera? Go and ask them to tell me their story so I can post it on the Cyprob just so I can score a cheap point against the GCs?

We dont need to show you evidence of anything, since its of no use trying to reason with people like you. You'll only try and excuse them or discredit them in one way or another like you do with everything the Greeks did....so continue believing what you wish...

[Magnus]

Im angry because I know people who have suffered these things. What do you want me to do? Go take pictures of them? Record them on camera? Go and ask them to tell me their story so I can post it on the Cyprob just so I can score a cheap point against the GCs?

We dont need to show you evidence of anything, since its of no use trying to reason with people like you. You'll only try and excuse them or discredit them in one way or another like you do with everything the Greeks did....so continue believing what you wish...

T_C, with respect, would you please clarify the timeframe you are referring to? Did these events happen during the 1974 invasion or at another time?

I don't doubt that there were some TC civilians that suffered during the Turkish invasion (you can't drop a bomb on a mixed village and expect to only hit GCs) and I have done my best to raise the issue throughout this topic, but it hasn't really been taken up as a discussion point.

I am doing my best to make this topic less about 'scoring points' and throwing insults and more about seriously examining the way the Turkish army behaved during the invasion and after the ceasefire (see the Times article posted by Bill Cobbett) and how people feel about their behaviour.

Some views seem to indicate that the GC civilians deserved the atrocities as a revenge for wrongdoings committed against TCs. Do two 'wrongs' make a 'right'? And can a professional army on a 'peace operation' ever truly justify such behaviour against civilians?

[Viewpoint]

What did you expect them to do under the circumstancies?

[mehmet]

Be 'Professional'?

[Magnus]

What did you expect them to do under the circumstancies?

Well VP, I would expect them to behave like professionals and men of honour, not a bunch of despicable thugs. I would expect them to do what they agreed to do under the Treaty of Guarantee:

CYPRUS-TREATY OF GUARANTEE
Nicosia, 16 August 1960

ARTICLE IV
In the event of a breach of the provisions of the present Treaty, Greece, Turkey and the United Kingdom undertake to consult together with respect to the representations or measure necessary to ensure observance of those provisions.

In so far as common or concerted action may not prove possible, each of the three guaranteeing Powers reserves the right to take action with the sole aim of reestablishing the state of affairs created by the present Treaty.

http://teaching.law.cornell.edu/faculty ... rantee.pdf

I would expect them to preserve the safety and security of ALL Cypriots caught up in the fighting. I would expect them to put down the extremists/coupists and restore order as was their mandate and right as a guarantor.

And most of all I would expect them to do what they were meant to do and then get out of Cyprus.

How about you?

[T_C]

Im angry because I know people who have suffered these things. What do you want me to do? Go take pictures of them? Record them on camera? Go and ask them to tell me their story so I can post it on the Cyprob just so I can score a cheap point against the GCs?

We dont need to show you evidence of anything, since its of no use trying to reason with people like you. You'll only try and excuse them or discredit them in one way or another like you do with everything the Greeks did....so continue believing what you wish...

T_C, with respect, would you please clarify the timeframe you are referring to? Did these events happen during the 1974 invasion or at another time?

I don't doubt that there were some TC civilians that suffered during the Turkish invasion (you can't drop a bomb on a mixed village and expect to only hit GCs) and I have done my best to raise the issue throughout this topic, but it hasn't really been taken up as a discussion point.

I am doing my best to make this topic less about 'scoring points' and throwing insults and more about seriously examining the way the Turkish army behaved during the invasion and after the ceasefire (see the Times article posted by Bill Cobbett) and how people feel about their behaviour.

Some views seem to indicate that the GC civilians deserved the atrocities as a revenge for wrongdoings committed against TCs. Do two 'wrongs' make a 'right'? And can a professional army on a 'peace operation' ever truly justify such behaviour against civilians?

No Magnus these things happened way before 74, when TCs were being chased from their homes. NOTHING excuses this barbaric act and 2 wrongs most certainly dont make a right...I have NEVER said that.

But the fact is that most muslims (practicing or not) would never dare talk about being raped.

And if its soooo barbaric and Oracle feels so strongly about something like rape then WHY would she resort to dismissing the TCs that went through the same just because people didnt go on camera talking of their ordeal?? She should of kept her mouth shut..it was her who brought up the TCs, talking about how she only found one case of rape. What was she trying to do but score points??

Thats all shes ever done on the forum anyways, anything to discredit TCs...even in spite of evidece of the contrary. And to top it off she tries to make out like she was doing us a favour.

What kind of Cypriot is that?

[bill cobbett]

The following is testimony from a member of the Turkish Army published in the German newspaper referred to below in 1998. This soldier also refers to the rape of tc women as well as gc women which may be of interest to those who discussed this last night.



An interview with Mustafa Organ, a Turkish soldier serving in the 48th Ankara/Tsoumbouk artilery brigade at the time of the Turkish invasion of Cyprus, was published on 28th January 1998 in the Frankfurt-based newspaper "Osgur Politica".
Organ refered to the barbaric massacre of about 100 Greek Cypriot civilians who had fled to the small village of Merich (Mora), near Nicosia. "Those killed at the exit of the village were women, children and pensioners who were running for their lives" he said.
"The little streets and the exit areas were full of civilian pensioners and small children who were trying to get away. These people were killed in the most vicious way and some of the bodies were cut to pieces. The bodies were lying in the scorching heat for a week. Later officers told us we had to hide the bodies. I drove a bulldozer. Others dug a large and wide ditch and burried them. Soldier Sefket Avcioglu from Maras was also a witness to the event".
Organ refered also to prisoners being killed and robbed and Greek and Turkish Cypriot women and girls being raped by the Turkish officers and soldiers.
"I cannot forget a tall dark officer from Adana who raped a 13 year old Greek Cypriot girl, and the rape of two Turkish Cypriot girls near the Nicosia industrial zone" he said.
The above barbaric actions of the Turkish armed forces constitute serious crimes against humanity and Turkey is answerable to the international community according to the provisions of several international conventions.



....
( In the very exceptionally unlikely event that God exists may He forgive us all or are we all beyond forgiveness)

[miltiades]

What did you expect them to do under the circumstancies?

Well VP, I would expect them to behave like professionals and men of honour, not a bunch of despicable thugs. I would expect them to do what they agreed to do under the Treaty of Guarantee:

CYPRUS-TREATY OF GUARANTEE
Nicosia, 16 August 1960

ARTICLE IV
In the event of a breach of the provisions of the present Treaty, Greece, Turkey and the United Kingdom undertake to consult together with respect to the representations or measure necessary to ensure observance of those provisions.

In so far as common or concerted action may not prove possible, each of the three guaranteeing Powers reserves the right to take action with the sole aim of reestablishing the state of affairs created by the present Treaty.

http://teaching.law.cornell.edu/faculty ... rantee.pdf

I would expect them to preserve the safety and security of ALL Cypriots caught up in the fighting. I would expect them to put down the extremists/coupists and restore order as was their mandate and right as a guarantor.

And most of all I would expect them to do what they were meant to do and then get out of Cyprus.

How about you?

It is pure nonsense to suggest that Turkey by invading Cyprus had any other plan other than to accomplish her aim as per the Attila plan. Had the Turkish army arrived in Cyprus in order to re establish the legally elected government of Cyprus , as a guarantor power it would have the right to do so, Turkey however invaded with one and only one goal in mind The division of Cyprus and the permanent entrenchment of Turkey on to Cyprus land . The entire International community is unwilling to grant recognition to the puppet "TRNC" because the International forums have never doubted that Turkeys army landed in Cyprus NOT as a peace keeping or reinstating power but as an invading force. This is how the UN , Europe and the rest of the International community explicate the events.

[T_C]

Andreas Dimitriu a former militant of EOKA (Greek Cypriot terror organization) confessed that they attacked Turkish Cypriots, and raped them, 30 years ago.

Dimitriu, 67, told local daily Alithia that they gathered the men in the Taskent village and killed them. “Soldiers coming from Hirokita raped a number of women. Whatever we did, we did it together with Greek Cypriot officials.”