Cyprus-Forum.com

[denizaksulu]

"The fact remains that had Makarios followed the advise of most of the world and not tried to bulldoze us into ENOSIS "

You forget that the Greek junta tried several times to assassinate him precisely because he was AGAINST enosis. He woke up too late, maybe, but the fact is that after 1967 he was for independence. You have a whole bunch of things mixed up.

And there is the point, the Greek side has changed its goals. The Turkish side remains fixed on partition and separation as it was way back in the 50s. And if that is the starting point for entering into a BBF deal, we must understand that these fixed Turkish goals necessitate awareness and appropriate planning.

Nikitas, we know Makarios had changrd his tune when he made his famous quote, ' desirable vs feasible'. But there were still elements with power (eg. Greece) who had still dreams of Enosis. Whilst Enosis was still alive and kicking in the Greek world, the TCs were never going to let it happen. Obviously the only deterrent was the ideas or threat of 'Partition'. As we saw, nobody took heed till it was too late. Alas.

The few dictating to the many ....

So what is your ongoing excuse now that Enosis is not "alive and kicking"?

My opinion? To be honest. Not many excuses. As I have said. Too late.
Thats another thread.

Sorry ... you can't have it!

But fatalism would be the worst betrayal of all. The acceptance, the legitimization of what was done - those things must be repudiated. Such a refusal has a value beyond Cyprus in showing that acquiescence in injustice is not 'realism'. Once the injustice has been set down and described, and called by its right name, acquiescence in it becomes impossible. That is why one writes about Cyprus in sorrow but more - much more - in anger."

Christopher Hitchens, 'Cyprus: Hostage to History', May 1997

O, when I said 'Too Late', what I meant was that so much damage had been done. I dont think we can go back to exactly how things were pre-1963. The only way to do that is to work together and seek out peace and a proper viable settlement. This will, I hope will end in the removal of all foreign troops from the land of Cyprus.

[miltiades]

"The fact remains that had Makarios followed the advise of most of the world and not tried to bulldoze us into ENOSIS "

You forget that the Greek junta tried several times to assassinate him precisely because he was AGAINST enosis. He woke up too late, maybe, but the fact is that after 1967 he was for independence. You have a whole bunch of things mixed up.

And there is the point, the Greek side has changed its goals. The Turkish side remains fixed on partition and separation as it was way back in the 50s. And if that is the starting point for entering into a BBF deal, we must understand that these fixed Turkish goals necessitate awareness and appropriate planning.

Nikitas, we know Makarios had changrd his tune when he made his famous quote, ' desirable vs feasible'. But there were still elements with power (eg. Greece) who had still dreams of Enosis. Whilst Enosis was still alive and kicking in the Greek world, the TCs were never going to let it happen. Obviously the only deterrent was the ideas or threat of 'Partition'. As we saw, nobody took heed till it was too late. Alas.

The few dictating to the many ....

So what is your ongoing excuse now that Enosis is not "alive and kicking"?

My opinion? To be honest. Not many excuses. As I have said. Too late.
Thats another thread.

Sorry ... you can't have it!

But fatalism would be the worst betrayal of all. The acceptance, the legitimization of what was done - those things must be repudiated. Such a refusal has a value beyond Cyprus in showing that acquiescence in injustice is not 'realism'. Once the injustice has been set down and described, and called by its right name, acquiescence in it becomes impossible. That is why one writes about Cyprus in sorrow but more - much more - in anger."

Christopher Hitchens, 'Cyprus: Hostage to History', May 1997

O, when I said 'Too Late', what I meant was that so much damage had been done. I dont think we can go back to exactly how things were pre-1963. The only way to do that is to work together and seek out peace and a proper viable settlement. This will, I hope will end in the removal of all foreign troops from the land of Cyprus.

I wish all Cypriots were as wise as you Deniz , alas we are surrounded by numerous morons , on both sides !!
There is one in particular who has declared a war against all that I say ,
I think he may just regret it when I start on him/ it , !!!

[Floda]

"""""Regardless of what the Americans knew or didn't know, the Athens Junta's failed coup against Makarios which led to the Turkish invasion of Cyprus is a tragedy that continues to this day. """

The above statement is proof positive that you are completely unaware of the real reasons behind the invasion.

That you know as much about politics as my arse knows about "Snipe Shooting"

The extent of your political knowledge could easily be poked up a sparrow's arse with a bradawl. IMHO.

Hey stupid , these are not my words but those of the link I gave !!
Stick to being dogged mate !

Oh come off it Miltiades, you present so many opinions which you hope will give you some credibility, it is impossible to determine where you stand on the issues under discussion.

You always seek to voice the views of those that you perceive to be on the winning side, that way, when any kind of headway is made, you can puff up and claim that you had some knowledge about it.

I personally believe that the "Snipe Shooting" and "Sparrow's Arse" comparisons sum you up very nicely, notably when your admiration for the Yanks becomes apparent. IMHO

[miltiades]

Just discovered Zan's information source , now I know where he gets most if not all of his dazzling "facts"
Here is a propaganda side that must surely take the biscuit.
www.solution2cyprus.info
Just read this , I like the bid about the butchering and massacres committed by G/Cs as early as 1912 !!
What dangerous rubbish !!
Here it is :
"Turkey is not invading Northern Cyprus
Turkey's military intervention in 1974 is not an attempt to gain more territory or invasion.

If Turkey didn't act in 1974, the island would be united with Greece as result of a coup and there wouldn't left a single Turkish Cypriot alive in the hands of Greeks.

Greek Cypriots, with Greece's support, butchered and massacred Turkish Cypriots starting from 1912. Greek Cypriots founded a terrorist organization called EOKA, to realize their dreams of ENOSIS (union with Greece).

Now you all know Zans' source of info !!!

[Magnus]

Just discovered Zan's information source , now I know where he gets most if not all of his dazzling "facts"
Here is a propaganda side that must surely take the biscuit.
www.solution2cyprus.info
Just read this , I like the bid about the butchering and massacres committed by G/Cs as early as 1912 !!
What dangerous rubbish !!
Here it is :
"Turkey is not invading Northern Cyprus
Turkey's military intervention in 1974 is not an attempt to gain more territory or invasion.

If Turkey didn't act in 1974, the island would be united with Greece as result of a coup and there wouldn't left a single Turkish Cypriot alive in the hands of Greeks.

Greek Cypriots, with Greece's support, butchered and massacred Turkish Cypriots starting from 1912. Greek Cypriots founded a terrorist organization called EOKA, to realize their dreams of ENOSIS (union with Greece).

Now you all know Zans' source of info !!!

Hi Miltiades, thanks for that link, I look forward to having a browse around it. I am sure it will be very... enlightening.

I know you're busy responding to other posters at the moment but I just wanted to ask you what you thought about the article I posted on the first page (and the follow up posted by Bill Cobbett)? As you can see there are lots of different perspectives expressed about it in the thread but I would like to hear your opinion as you are one of the most regular posters in the CyProb section.

[zan]

Just discovered Zan's information source , now I know where he gets most if not all of his dazzling "facts"
Here is a propaganda side that must surely take the biscuit.
www.solution2cyprus.info
Just read this , I like the bid about the butchering and massacres committed by G/Cs as early as 1912 !!
What dangerous rubbish !!
Here it is :
"Turkey is not invading Northern Cyprus
Turkey's military intervention in 1974 is not an attempt to gain more territory or invasion.

If Turkey didn't act in 1974, the island would be united with Greece as result of a coup and there wouldn't left a single Turkish Cypriot alive in the hands of Greeks.

Greek Cypriots, with Greece's support, butchered and massacred Turkish Cypriots starting from 1912. Greek Cypriots founded a terrorist organization called EOKA, to realize their dreams of ENOSIS (union with Greece).

Now you all know Zans' source of info !!!

News head lines....Old drunk man finds site on the internet and wets himself....More on next line.....


Incontinence is comforting an old man as he finds that the internet has sites on it.


Milti baby...I see you have mastered the art of finding sites on the internet...And who said you can't teach an inebriated old dog new tricks.......Now...care to tell us what you find on that site that you do not agree with....Regardless of the fact that that is just one of the sites on the NET with such information and not one of the ones I use....If you care to look...When I remember I put the link in my posts as well....

How about telling us TCs what you think about ENOSIS??? Be honest now....

[zan]

"The fact remains that had Makarios followed the advise of most of the world and not tried to bulldoze us into ENOSIS "

You forget that the Greek junta tried several times to assassinate him precisely because he was AGAINST enosis. He woke up too late, maybe, but the fact is that after 1967 he was for independence. You have a whole bunch of things mixed up.

And there is the point, the Greek side has changed its goals. The Turkish side remains fixed on partition and separation as it was way back in the 50s. And if that is the starting point for entering into a BBF deal, we must understand that these fixed Turkish goals necessitate awareness and appropriate planning.

Nikitas, we know Makarios had changrd his tune when he made his famous quote, ' desirable vs feasible'. But there were still elements with power (eg. Greece) who had still dreams of Enosis. Whilst Enosis was still alive and kicking in the Greek world, the TCs were never going to let it happen. Obviously the only deterrent was the ideas or threat of 'Partition'. As we saw, nobody took heed till it was too late. Alas.

The few dictating to the many ....

So what is your ongoing excuse now that Enosis is not "alive and kicking"?

My opinion? To be honest. Not many excuses. As I have said. Too late.
Thats another thread.

Sorry ... you can't have it!

But fatalism would be the worst betrayal of all. The acceptance, the legitimization of what was done - those things must be repudiated. Such a refusal has a value beyond Cyprus in showing that acquiescence in injustice is not 'realism'. Once the injustice has been set down and described, and called by its right name, acquiescence in it becomes impossible. That is why one writes about Cyprus in sorrow but more - much more - in anger."

Christopher Hitchens, 'Cyprus: Hostage to History', May 1997

O, when I said 'Too Late', what I meant was that so much damage had been done. I dont think we can go back to exactly how things were pre-1963. The only way to do that is to work together and seek out peace and a proper viable settlement. This will, I hope will end in the removal of all foreign troops from the land of Cyprus.

I wish all Cypriots were as wise as you Deniz , alas we are surrounded by numerous morons , on both sides !!
There is one in particular who has declared a war against all that I say ,
I think he may just regret it when I start on him/ it , !!!

Hohohohooooo!!! Claiming victim status again Milti.....

Why don't you try to defend your stance on what you think about the Greeks wanting ENOSIS and the fact that you think the majority has the right to lead the minority to its doom.....On that basis you are still for ENOSIS if the Greeks want it....What a friend you are to us TCs...Our saviour!!!!!

[Oracle]

I can't find the post just now, but one of the Turk-TCs justified these mass rapes and atrocities by saying what about the many TC women that were raped ....

..... Five hundred Turkish Cypriots are regarded as missing from 1963, 1967 and 1974, though this number includes those killed in the aforementioned massacres. Rape of Turkish Cypriot women was isolated. Turkish Cypriot journalist Sevgul Uludag in her book on massacres and mass graves in Cyprus, mentions one case of rape against a Turkish Cypriot woman. Forty thousand Turkish Cypriots one-third of their population moved to the north of the island after 1974; but this was at the behest of Turkey, which now wanted to consolidate the Turkish Cypriot puppet state it was planning to establish in the occupied areas.

[T_C]

Yes she MENTIONS one case of rape. I KNOW thats not the case Oracle.

[zan]

I can't find the post just now, but one of the Turk-TCs justified these mass rapes and atrocities by saying what about the many TC women that were raped ....

..... Five hundred Turkish Cypriots are regarded as missing from 1963, 1967 and 1974, though this number includes those killed in the aforementioned massacres. Rape of Turkish Cypriot women was isolated. Turkish Cypriot journalist Sevgul Uludag in her book on massacres and mass graves in Cyprus, mentions one case of rape against a Turkish Cypriot woman. Forty thousand Turkish Cypriots one-third of their population moved to the north of the island after 1974; but this was at the behest of Turkey, which now wanted to consolidate the Turkish Cypriot puppet state it was planning to establish in the occupied areas.

The others were raped and killed...The one woman that was mentioned...was that her in the picture with her breasts cut off and then her body set alight

My own mother was strip searched by a scumbag GC who put his filthy hands over her body sister so you had better watch out what crap you spew out...