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The Sun - 8th August 1974

How can we solve it? (keep it civilized)

Postby Magnus » Tue Sep 09, 2008 6:33 pm

ttoli wrote: And I can quite readily post credible reporting from the TC perspective, as I stated in my original post'NO DOUBT ATTROCITIES WERE CARRIED OUT BY BOTH SIDES'.Why do you and others on this forum keep raking it up?, will it do any good?(NO), can you change the past?(NO).


As you can imagine, these concerns have already been raised earlier in the thread and I am of course prepared to defend my choice of topic:

Magnus wrote: Hi Kifeas, I posted this article so that we can discuss the issue of the atrocities carried out by the Turkish army as I feel that this issue is often skimmed over. Whenever the issue is mentioned it seems to be the same arguments of 'you evil bastards' vs 'you deserve it for what you did to us' but very little beyond that.

I also wanted to see just how much all the various ideologies expressed on the forum stand up to such a graphic depiction of events. Sometimes it's easier to shoot our mouths off when time has apparently eroded our memories or when it has happened to 'faceless' people we don't know personally.

I know that looking at these events will not change the current status quo or have any significant effect. You might even say that it will accomplish nothing, but realistically what do any of the discussions on this forum accomplish?


Magnus wrote: I don't really think of it so much as an experiment, as experiments will either fail or succeed. I think of it more as an opportunity for everyone to assess 'the courage of their convictions'.


If you have credible material that relates to the atrocities carried out against civilians during/after the 1974 invasion/intervention then they might be very useful for this discussion. It's up to you if you want to post them. Obviously if it relates to 1963 etc then that falls out of the scope of this topic and would be served better in another thread where it can be given it's due respect and attention.

ttoli wrote: You appear a bit more open than others, so answer me this, Are you quite happy for future generations to grow with this inbuilt hatred of all things Turkish?


Not at all, but I feel that the struggles, pain and suffering that our friends/family/countrymen (GC or TC) went through should not be forgotten or watered-down in the passing of time or through historical manipulations/distortions for political gain.

ttoli wrote: You are glossing over one very important point here, by and large many Journalists were prevented from gaining access to TC's within the enforced Enclaves.
Friends of my Fathers that served their national service here, tell how they had to stand by and do nothing when TC's were being hassled or bullied by Police or National guard.

Without wishing to offend you, most GC come across that they did nothing wrong what so ever to antagonise their fellow TC's, And Turkey just Interveened, whilst in reality the bully got a bloody nose and is still whinging about it 34 years down the line.


I have already stated that I don't in any way condone and wrongdoings against any innocent TCs by Greek or GC extremists or self-interested groups. I can't really answer any further on this issue without turning it into a discussion of 1963 etc. I don't mean to cause offence or treat that as a casual issue, I would just prefer to keep this thread focused on the original subject (atrocities against civilians by the Turkish army in 1974).
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Postby Oracle » Tue Sep 09, 2008 7:52 pm

miltiades wrote:... The culprits were the Greek Junta FULL STOP !!


US gave full backing to Turkish invasion

THE United States gave full blessing to the Turkish invasion of Cyprus, even assuring Turkey that it would "get them a solution involving one third of the island.''

This cynical US involvement is revealed in the latest batch of secret official State Department documents released for publication under the 30-year rule.

The American stand has long been known, but this is the first time that it has been confirmed so completely by an official State Department document.

This is clarified in the very first paragraph of the document which is stamped ``SECRET/EYES ONLY.''

It declares that the only conceivable settlement of the Cyprus problem "will have to rest on a de facto division of the island, whatever the form."

While admitting that the United States ``has the clout'' to prevent the invasion, the document nevertheless advises against doing so "before the fighting stops."

The document is dated August 14, 1974, the exact date of the second massive wave of the Turkish invasion of the island. It is headed: ``Memorandum for the Secretary - Cyprus Actions'' from Helmut Sonnenfeldt, one of the top State Department officials dealing with Greco-Turkish affairs.

The document even includes a map detailing the plan of action of the Turkish invasion force. This is headed ``Map done by the Bureau of Intelligence and Research projecting Turkish moves on Cyprus, August 13, 1974.''

It is worth noting that this plan was the one followed exactly by the Turkish troops, a further proof of the close American involvement in the Turkish invasion planning.

Here is the full text of the document:

THE COUNSELOR

DEPARTMENT OF STATE

WASHINGTON

August 14, 1974

SECRET/EYES ONLY

MEMORANDUM FOR THE SECRETARY

FROM: Helmut Sonnenfeldt

SUBJECT: Cyprus Actions

You wanted some brief ideas on what we do next.

Nothing I can think of will stop the Turks now from trying to secure by force what they demanded in their ultimata. In fact, as has always been true, the only coneivable modus vivendi will have to rest on a de facto division of the island, whatever the form.

If the Turks move fast and can then be gotten to stand down, it may pre-empt Greek counteraction and then give us a chance to try for a deal. (It may also save Karamanlis).

While the Soviets can serve as a bogey, we must keep them at arms length. They cannot become the arbiter between US allies. Their interests differ drastically from ours: we want a modus vivendi between Greece and Turkey, they want a non-aligned Cyprus, preferably with Greece or Turkey or both disaffected from NATO.

Thus, we should

- urgently try to contain Greek reaction; 24 hours at a time;

- bluntly tell the Turks they must stop, today, tomorrow at the latest;

- warn the Turks that Greece is rapidly moving leftward;

- send high-level US man to Athens to exert continuing direct influence on Karamanlis;

- assuming the Turks quickly take Famagusta, privately assure Turks we will get them solution involving one third of island, within some kind of federal arrangement;

- assure Greeks we will contain Turk demands and allow no additional enclaves, etc.

You should not get involved directly till the fighting stops; then you must since there is no alternative and only we have the clout.

I do not think Brussels/NATO is the place to use when the time comes. The Greeks are probably too sore at NATO and the vehicle of a ministerial meeting is awkward. Anyway, you need Ecevit and Karamanlis.

London may be unacceptable to the Turks because of Callaghan’s blast at them.

You should not shuttle.

This may mean Geneva. Washington, at the President’s initiative, would be all right but hard to get the parties to come to. Also provocative of the Russians. New York would make it difficult to keep the Russians away.

You could also try Rome.
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Postby miltiades » Tue Sep 09, 2008 8:34 pm

Floda wrote:
miltiades wrote:
Paphitis wrote:
miltiades wrote:EVENTS AS PER WARS OF THE WORLD.
I beleive that few of us would dispute the following sequence of events and ever fewer will dispute the fact that had it not been for the Junta ordering the coup , and had Makarios not underestimated the stupidity of the Junta , Turkey would not have invaded. I have always maintained that the catastrophe that developed was as a result of the Greek Junta and I shall always hold them and their fascist ideas responsible , contrary to popular folklore that America was to blame.
During the spring of 1974, Cypriot intelligence found evidence that EOKA B was planning a coup and was being supplied, controlled, and funded by the military government in Athens. EOKA B was banned, but its operations continued underground. Early in July, Makarios wrote to the president of Greece demanding that the remaining 650 Greek officers assigned to the National Guard be withdrawn. He also accused the junta of plotting against his life and against the government of Cyprus. Makarios sent his letter (which was released to the public) to the Greek president on July 2, 1974; the reply came thirteen days later, not in the form of a letter but in an order from Athens to the Cypriot National Guard to overthrow its commander in chief and take control of the island.

Makarios narrowly escaped death in the attack by the Greek-led National Guard. He fled the presidential palace and went to Paphos. A British helicopter took him the Sovereign Base Area at Akrotiri, from where he went to London. Several days later, Makarios addressed a meeting of the UN Security Council, where he was accepted as the legal president of the Republic of Cyprus.

In the meantime, the notorious EOKA terrorist Nicos Sampson was declared provisional president of the new government. It was obvious to Ankara that Athens was behind the coup, and major elements of the Turkish armed forces went on alert. Turkey had made similar moves in 1964 and 1967, but had not invaded. At the same time, Turkish prime minister Bülent Ecevit flew to London to elicit British aid in a joint effort in Cyprus, as called for in the 1959 Treaty of Guarantee, but the British were either unwilling or unprepared and declined to take action as a guarantor power. The United States took no action to bolster the Makarios government, but Joseph J. Sisco, Under Secretary of State for Political Affairs, went to London and the eastern Mediterranean to stave off the impending Turkish invasion and the war between Greece and Turkey that might follow. The Turks demanded removal of Nicos Sampson and the Greek officers from the National Guard and a binding guarantee of Cypriot independence. Sampson, of course, was expendable to the Athens regime, but Sisco could get an agreement only to reassign the 650 Greek officers.

As Sisco negotiated in Athens, Turkish invasion ships were already at sea. A last-minute reversal might have been possible had the Greeks made concessions, but they did not. The intervention began early on July 20, 1974. Three days later the Greek junta collapsed in Athens, Sampson resigned in Nicosia, and the threat of war between NATO allies was over, but the Turkish army was on Cyprus.

Konstantinos Karamanlis, in self-imposed exile in France since 1963, was called back, to head the Greek government once more. Clerides was sworn in as acting president of the Republic of Cyprus, and the foreign ministers of the guarantor powers met in Geneva on July 25 to discuss the military situation on the island. Prime Minister Ecevit publicly welcomed the change of government in Greece and seemed genuinely interested in eliminating the tensions that had brought the two countries so close to war. Nevertheless, during the truce that was arranged, Turkish forces continued to take territory, to improve their positions, and to build up their supplies of war matériel.

A second conference in Geneva began on August 10, with Clerides and Denktas as the Cypriot representatives. Denktas proposed a bizonal federation, with Turkish Cypriots controlling 34 percent of island. When this proposal was rejected, the Turkish foreign minister proposed a Turkish Cypriot zone in the northern part of the island and five Turkish Cypriot enclaves elsewhere, all of which would amount once again to 34 percent of the island's area. Clerides asked for a recess of thirty-six to forty-eight hours to consult with the government in Nicosia and with Makarios in London. His request was refused, and early on August 14 the second phase of the Turkish intervention began. Two days later, after having seized 37 percent of the island above what the Turks called the "Atilla Line," the line that ran from Morphou Bay in the northwest to Famagusta (Gazimagusa) in the east, the Turks ordered a ceasefire.

The de facto partition of Cyprus resulting from the Turkish invasion, or intervention, as the Turks preferred to call their military action, caused much suffering in addition to the thousands of dead, many of whom were unaccounted for even years later. An estimated one-third of the population of each ethnic community had to flee their homes. The island's economy was devastated.

Efforts were undertaken immediately to remedy the effects of the catastrophe. Intensive government economic planning and intervention on both sides of the island soon improved living standards and allowed the construction of housing for refugees. Both communities benefited greatly from the expansion of the tourist industry, which brought millions of foreign visitors to the island during the 1980s. The economic success of the Republic of Cyprus was significant enough to seem almost miraculous. Within just a few years, the refugees had housing and were integrated in the bustling economy, and Greek Cypriots enjoyed a West European standard of living. Turkish Cypriots did not do as well, but, working against an international embargo imposed by the Republic of Cyprus and benefiting from extensive Turkish aid, they managed to ensure a decent standard of living for all members of their community--a standard of living, in fact, that was higher than that of Turkey. Both communities established government agencies to provide public assistance to those who needed it and built modern education systems extending to the university level.


Miltiades,

Please re-evaluate your nonsense.

The Cyprus Tragedy had the following co-conspirators:
1) USA,
2) Greece,
3) Turkey, and
4) A significant portion of Cypriot society (EOKA B).

The ultimate aim of the coup was to facilitate double union of Cyprus with Greece and Turkey. It was engineered by The CIA in order to enslave Cyprus under 2 NATO aligned nations and thus prevent the AKEL influenced Cypriot people from developing closer ties with The Soviet Union. NATO feared the prospect of any Soviet influence in the Eastern Mediterranean, and acted accordingly by destroying Cyprus as a nation.

The GCs and TCs were mere pawns in what was a high stake Cold War battle between The USA and The Soviet Union. In the end, the USA won this battle, by cutting in 2 the island of Cyprus.

You should read "The Cyprus Conspiracy" by Brendan O'Mally.

Now, if you do not mind, please refrain from posting such Bollocks as above. I am way too busy ATM to be dealing with your ignorance as I have tests to prepare for. :roll:

I will be back by Sat.

Don't bother mate , stupid comments we get plenty without you adding more !!
The culprits were the Greek Junta FULL STOP !!




Quite amusing to see that the first part of this exchange says "Miltiades Wrote" when in fact he has obviously "Cut and Pasted" it from somewhere and doubtless hasn't read it [as is usual].

The response of Paphitis is absolutely spot on and having read some of the previous exchanges between these two members, one wonders why an intelligent man like Paphitis bothers to respond, frustration I suspect.

The final comment, IS the work of Miltiades and once again illustrates the extraordinary blindness to reality that this unbelievably inadequate member [in debate] is capable of.

God help us all if such a one as he should ever be taken seriously by the Turks, Cyprus will truly be in the cart.

For goodness sake Miltiades, wake up to reality, the wolves are howling at your door. :twisted:

Hey stupid , if you go to my original post you will see that I quoted the source as WARS OF THE WORLD , a well respected research organization that covers about 1500 armed conflicts from 1800 to 1999 .
Students of military history refer to this Research Project in order to enhance their knowledge of armed conflicts , it appears you and the other stupid individual , and you are two of a kind , have totaly missed the whole point.
Get lost stupid and get dogged !!
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Postby bill cobbett » Tue Sep 09, 2008 8:46 pm

"Atrocities against civilians by the Turkish army in 1974" . As all will know the European Commission on Human Rights looked in to the matter soon after the Barbaric Turkish Invasion and Ethnic Cleansing Operation.

The following is an article from The Sunday Times (London) of 23 January 1977 which gives the authors as this paper's Insight Team and which gives us some more background to the murderous and terrible goings on and the ECHR's damning verdict on the nice Turkish State.

"The terrible secrets of the Turkish invasion of Cyprus
The plight of Cyprus, with 40 per cent of the island still occupied by Turkish troops who invaded in the summer of 1974, is well known. But never before has the full story been told of what happened during and after the invasion. This article is based on the secret report of the European Commission of Human Rights. For obvious reasons, Insight has withdrawn the names of witnesses who gave evidence to the Commission.

INSIGHT

Killing
Relevant Article of Human Rights Convention: Everyone's right to life shall be protected by law.

Charge made by Greek Cypriots: The Turkish army embarked on a systematic course of mass killings of civilians unconnected with any war activity.

Turkish Defence: None offered, but jurisdiction challenged. By letter dated November 27, 1975, Turkey told the Commission it refused to accept the Greek Cypriot administration's right to go to the commission, "since there is no authority which can properly require the Turkish government to recognise against its will the legitimacy of a government which has usurped the powers of the state in violation of the constitution of which Turkey is a guarantor." No defence therefore offered to any other charges either.

Evidence given to the commission: Witness Mrs K said that on July 21, 1974, the second day of the Turkish invasion, she and a group of villagers from Elia were captured when, fleeing from bombardment, they tried to reach a range of mountains. All 12 men arrested were civilians. They were separated from the women and shot in front of the women, under the orders of a Turkish officer. Some of the men were holding children, three of whom were wounded.

Written statements referred to two more group killings: at Trimithi eyewitnesses told of the deaths of five men (two shepherds aged 60 and 70, two masons of 20 and 60, and a 19-year-old plumber). At Palekythron 30 Greek Cypriot soldiers being held prisoner were killed by their captors, according to the second statement.

Witness S gave evidence of two other mass killings at Palekythron. In each case, between 30 and 40 soldiers who had surrendered to the advancing Turks were shot. In the second case, the witness said, "the soldiers were transferred to the kilns of the village where they were shot dead and burnt in order not to leave details of what had happened."

Seventeen members of two neighbouring families, including 10 women and five children aged between two and nine were murdered in cold blood at Palekythron, reported witness H, a doctor. Further killing described in the doctor's notes, recording evidence related to him by patients (either eye-witnesses or victims) included:

Execution of eight civilians taken prisoner by Turkish soldiers in the area of Prastio, one day after the ceasefire on August 16, 1974.
Killing by Turkish soldiers of five unarmed Greek Cypriot soldiers who had sought refuge in a house at Voni.
Shooting of four women, one of whom survived by pretending she was dead.
Further evidence, taken in refugees camps and in the form of written statements, described killings of civilians in homes, streets or fields, as well as the killing of people under arrest or in detention. Eight statements described the killing of soldiers not in combat; five statements referred to a mass grave found in Dherynia.

Commission's verdict: By 14 votes to one, the commission considered there were "very strong indications" of violation of Article 2 and killings "committed on a substantial scale."

Rape
Relevant article: No one shall be subjected to torture or to inhuman or degrading treatment or punishment.

Charge by Greek Cypriots: Turkish troops were responsible for wholesale and repeated rapes of women of all ages from 12 to 71, sometimes to such an extent that the victims suffered haemorrhages or became mental wrecks. In some areas, enforced prostitution was practised, all women and girls of a village being collected and put into separate rooms in empty houses where they were raped repeatedly.

In certain cases members of the same family were repeatedly raped, some of them in front of their own children. In other cases women were brutally raped in public.

Rapes were on many occassions accompanied by brutalities such as violent biting of the victims causing severe wounding, banging their heads on the floor and wringing their throats almost to the point of suffocation. In some cases attempts to rape were followed by the stabbing or killing of the victims, victims included pregnant and mentally-retarded women.

Evidence to commission: Testimony of doctors C and H, who examined the victims. Eyewitnesses and hearsay witnesses also gave evidence, and the commission had before it written statements from 41 alleged victims.

Dr H said he had confirmed rape in 70 cases, including:

A mentally-retarded girl of 24 was raped in her house by 20 soldiers. When she started screaming they threw her from the second-floor window. She fractured her spine and was paralysed;
One day after their arrival at Voni, Turks took girls to a nearby house and raped them;
One woman from Voni was raped on three occassions by four persons each time. She became pregnant;
One girl, from Palekyhthrou, who was held with others in a house, was taken out at gunpoint and raped;
At Tanvu, Turkish soldiers tried to rape a 17-year-old schoolgirl. She resisted and was shot dead;
A woman from Gypsou told Dr H that 25 girls were kept by Turks at Marathouvouno as prostitutes.
Another witness said that his wife was raped in front of their children. Witness S told of 25 girls who complained to Turkish officers about being raped and were raped again by the officers. A man (name withheld) reported that his wife was stabbed in the neck while resisting rape. His grand-daughter, aged six, had been stabbed and killed by Turkish soldiers attempting to rape her.

A Red Cross witness said that in August 1974, while the island's telephones were still working, the Red Cross Society recieved calls from Palekyhthrou and Kaponti reporting rapes. The Red Cross also took care of 38 women released from Voni and Gypsou detention camps: all had been raped, some in front of their husbands and children. Others had been raped repeatedly, or put in houses frequented by Turkish soldiers.

These women were taken to Akrotiri hospital, in the British Sovereign Base Area, where they were treated. Three were found to be pregnant. Reference was also made to several abortions performed at the base.

Commission's verdict: By 12 votes to one the commission found "that the incidents of rape described in the cases referred to and regarded as established constitute 'inhuman treatment' and thus violations of Article 3 for which Turkey is responsible under the convention."

Torture
Relevant article: see above under Rape.

Charge by Greek-Cypriots: Hundreds of people, including children, women and pensioners, were victims of systematic torture and savage and humiliating treatment during their detention by the Turkish army. They were beaten, according to the allegations, sometimes to the extent of being incapacitated. Many were subjected to whipping, breaking of their teeth, knocking their heads against walls, beating with electrified clubs, stubbing of cigarettes on their skin, jumping and stepping on their chests an hands, pouring dirty liquids on them, piercing with bayonets, etc.

Many, it was said, were ill-treated to such an extent that they became mental and physical wrecks. The brutalities complained of reached their climax after the ceasefire agreements; in fact, most of the acts described were committed at a time when Turkish armed forces were not engaged in any war activities.

Evidence to Commission: Main witness was schoolteacher, one of 2,000 Greek Cypriot men deported to Turkey. He stated that he and his fellow detainees were repeatedly beaten after their arrest, on their way to Adana (in Turkey), in jail in Adana and in prison camp at Amasya.

On ship to Turkey - "That was another moment of terrible beating again. We were tied all the time. I lost sense of touch. I could not feel anything for about two or three months. Every time we asked for water or spoke we were being beaten."

Arriving at Adana - "...then, one by one, they led us to prisons, through a long corridor ... Going through that corridor was another terrible experience. There were about 100 soldiers from both sides with sticks, clubs and with their fists beating every one of us while going to the other end of the corridor .I was beaten at least 50 times until I reached the other end.

In Adana anyone who said he wanted to see a doctor was beaten. "Beating was on the agenda every day. There were one or two very good, very nice people, but they were afraid to show their kindness,as they told us."

Witness P spoke of:

A fellow prisoner who was kicked in the mouth. He lost several teeth "and his lower jaw came off in pieces."
A Turkish officer, a karate student, who exercised every day by hitting prisoners.
Fellow prisoners who were hung by the feet over the hole of a lavatory for hours.
A Turkish second lieutenant who used to prick all prisoners with a pin when they were taken into a yard.
Evidence from Dr H said that prisoners were in an emaciated condition on their return to Cyprus. On nine occasions he had found signs of wounds.

The doctor gave a general description of conditions in Adana and in detention camps in Cyprus (at Pavlides Garage and the Saray Prison in the Turkish quarter of Nicosia) as reported to him by former detainees. Food, he said, consisted of one-eighth of a loaf of bread a day, with occasional olives; there were two buckets of water and two mugs which were never cleaned, from which about 1,000 people had to drink; toilets were filthy, with faeces rising over the basins; floors ere covered faeces and urine; in jail in Adana prisoners were kept 76 to a cell with three towels between them and one block of soap per eight persons per month to wash themselves and their clothes.

One man, it was alleged, had to amputate his own toes with a razor blade as a consequence of ill-treatment. Caught in Achna with another man, they had been beaten up with hard objects. When he had asked for a glass of water he was given a glass full of urine. His toes were then stepped on until they became blue, swollen and eventually gangrenous. (The other man was said to have been taken to hospital in Nicosia, where he agreed to have his legs amputated. He did not survive the operation.)

According to witness S, "hundred of Greek Cypriots were beaten and dozens were executed. They have cut off their ears in some cases, like the case of Palekythro and Trahoni..." (verbatim record).

Verdict by commission: By 12 votes to one, the commission concluded that prisoners were in a number of cases physically ill-treated by Turkish soldiers. "These acts of ill-treatment caused considerable injuries and in at least one case, the death of the victim. By their severity they constitute 'inhuman treatment' in the sense of Article 3, for which Turkey is responsible under the convention."

Looting
Relevant article: Every natural or legal person is entitled to the peaceful enjoyment of his possessions.

Charge by Greek Cypriots: In all Turkish-occupied areas, the Turkish army systematically looted houses and business premises of Greek Cypriots.

Evidence to the commission: Looting in Kyrenia was described by witness C: "...The first days of looting of the shops was done by the army, of heavy things like refrigerators, laundry machines, television sets" (verbatim record).

For the weeks after the invasion, he said, he had watched Turkish naval ships taking on board the looted goods.

Witness K, a barrister, described the pillage of Famagusta: "At two o'clock on organised, systematic, terrifying, shocking, unbelievable looting started... We heard the breaking of doors, some of them iron doors, smashing of glass, and we were waiting for them any minute to enter the house. This lasted for about four hours."

Written statements by eyewitnesses of looting were corroborated by several reports by the secretary-general of the United Nations.

Verdict of the commission: The commission accepted that looting and robbery on an extensive scale, by Turkish troops and Turkish Cypriots, had taken place. By 12 votes to one, it established that there had been deprivation of possessions of Greek Cypriots on a large scale.

Other charges
On four counts: the commission concluded that Turkey had also violated an Article of the Convention asserting the right to respect for private and family life, home and correspondence. The commission also decided that Turkey was continuing to violate the Article by refusing to allow the return of more than 170,000 Greek Cypriot refugees to their homes in the north.

On three counts: the commission said Turkey had violated two more articles that specify that the rights and freedoms in the Convention shall be secured without discrimination on any ground, and that anyone whose rights are violated "shall have an effective remedy before a national authority.""
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Postby miltiades » Tue Sep 09, 2008 8:50 pm

Oracle wrote:
miltiades wrote:... The culprits were the Greek Junta FULL STOP !!


US gave full backing to Turkish invasion

THE United States gave full blessing to the Turkish invasion of Cyprus, even assuring Turkey that it would "get them a solution involving one third of the island.''

This cynical US involvement is revealed in the latest batch of secret official State Department documents released for publication under the 30-year rule.

The American stand has long been known, but this is the first time that it has been confirmed so completely by an official State Department document.

This is clarified in the very first paragraph of the document which is stamped ``SECRET/EYES ONLY.''

It declares that the only conceivable settlement of the Cyprus problem "will have to rest on a de facto division of the island, whatever the form."

While admitting that the United States ``has the clout'' to prevent the invasion, the document nevertheless advises against doing so "before the fighting stops."

The document is dated August 14, 1974, the exact date of the second massive wave of the Turkish invasion of the island. It is headed: ``Memorandum for the Secretary - Cyprus Actions'' from Helmut Sonnenfeldt, one of the top State Department officials dealing with Greco-Turkish affairs.

The document even includes a map detailing the plan of action of the Turkish invasion force. This is headed ``Map done by the Bureau of Intelligence and Research projecting Turkish moves on Cyprus, August 13, 1974.''

It is worth noting that this plan was the one followed exactly by the Turkish troops, a further proof of the close American involvement in the Turkish invasion planning.

Here is the full text of the document:

THE COUNSELOR

DEPARTMENT OF STATE

WASHINGTON

August 14, 1974

SECRET/EYES ONLY

MEMORANDUM FOR THE SECRETARY

FROM: Helmut Sonnenfeldt

SUBJECT: Cyprus Actions

You wanted some brief ideas on what we do next.

Nothing I can think of will stop the Turks now from trying to secure by force what they demanded in their ultimata. In fact, as has always been true, the only coneivable modus vivendi will have to rest on a de facto division of the island, whatever the form.

If the Turks move fast and can then be gotten to stand down, it may pre-empt Greek counteraction and then give us a chance to try for a deal. (It may also save Karamanlis).

While the Soviets can serve as a bogey, we must keep them at arms length. They cannot become the arbiter between US allies. Their interests differ drastically from ours: we want a modus vivendi between Greece and Turkey, they want a non-aligned Cyprus, preferably with Greece or Turkey or both disaffected from NATO.

Thus, we should

- urgently try to contain Greek reaction; 24 hours at a time;

- bluntly tell the Turks they must stop, today, tomorrow at the latest;

- warn the Turks that Greece is rapidly moving leftward;

- send high-level US man to Athens to exert continuing direct influence on Karamanlis;

- assuming the Turks quickly take Famagusta, privately assure Turks we will get them solution involving one third of island, within some kind of federal arrangement;

- assure Greeks we will contain Turk demands and allow no additional enclaves, etc.

You should not get involved directly till the fighting stops; then you must since there is no alternative and only we have the clout.

I do not think Brussels/NATO is the place to use when the time comes. The Greeks are probably too sore at NATO and the vehicle of a ministerial meeting is awkward. Anyway, you need Ecevit and Karamanlis.

London may be unacceptable to the Turks because of Callaghan’s blast at them.

You should not shuttle.

This may mean Geneva. Washington, at the President’s initiative, would be all right but hard to get the parties to come to. Also provocative of the Russians. New York would make it difficult to keep the Russians away.

You could also try Rome.

Therefore I take it you believe that had the coup against Makarios not taken place Turkey would have still invaded .
I also understand that , you prescribe to the notion that the coup against Makarios was orchestrated by the USA , hence Turkey's invasion was inevitable . May I suggest that you read this secret report again by Helmut Sonnenfeldt and pay attention to the date of the report , some 3 weeks after Turkey invaded. Also pay attention of the details of the ultimatum that Turkey issued and specifically the date of the issue.

How comforting to absolve the guilty party by blaming , as Greeks always do , the Americans.
Please do tell me if you really believe that Turkey would have invaded coup or no coup .
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Postby Oracle » Tue Sep 09, 2008 9:23 pm

Miltiades I am nor absolving the Greek junta one iota, but they were not solely responsible. Your saintly USA was an accomplice ......

Now let this thread go back to bill cobbett's post from the Sunday Times regarding the barbaric violations by Turkey ....
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Postby miltiades » Tue Sep 09, 2008 9:28 pm

SAURCE : A HISTORY OF GREECE , www.ahistoryofgreece.com

In the summer of 1974 in Cyprus, Archbishop Makarios demands the removal of Greek officers from the Cypriot National Guard. The Athens government launches a coup using the Cypriot National Guard and announces over the radio that Makarios is dead, buried under rubble in his palace. Nikos Sampson one of the most ruthless of General Grivas' EOKA (National Organization of Cypriot Fighters) is sworn in as the President of Cyprus and there are reports of the murder of Makarios supporters by members of this group. Imagine the surprise of the Cypriot people to hear the voice of their leader, Makarios, who has survived the attempt on his life and escaped the island, telling them to resist the Junta. Turkey, realizing that this is a plot to unite Cyprus with Greece, invade, supposedly to protect the Turkish minority on the night of July 19th with a plan that was code-named 'Attila I', named after Attila the Hun. (See the Michael Cacoyanis movie of the same name). Again the Americans could hardly complain about the coup since President Nixon viewed Makarios as "the Castro of the Mediterranean". But the fact that Makarios had survived the coup made a big mess for everybody involved, especially a few days later when he makes an eloquent speech to the United Nations Security Council accusing the Athens Junta of being behind it. During the negotiations on the Cyprus issue in Geneva which follow, the Turkish military continues to take more territory on the island.

In Athens the Turkish invasion has taken the Junta completely by surprise. The Greek mobilization is lacking in enthusiasm. Nobody in their right mind wants to go to war with Turkey over Cyprus, and probably get killed, for a government they do not support. The whole thing is a national humiliation and the military knows they have little chance against Turkey in an all out war. The members of the Junta all agree that Ioannides has screwed up royally and must go. Ioannides himself sees the writing on the wall and leaves quietly though he retains control of the secret police. On July 23rd President Gizikis phones Constantine Karamanlis in Paris and invites him back to Greece. Karamanlis flies from Paris on the French President's private jet and is sworn in at 4:30 am on July 24 1974 while a jubilant Athens celebrates. His job is simple. Clean up the disaster the dictators have left behind, and bring democracy back to Greece. Karamanlis, who had been seen by many Greeks as a puppet of the Americans during his rule in the fifties now appears as savior. He has what most men who have made mistakes in life want but few get: A second chance.

In the aftermath of the Turkish invasion of Cyprus there are 4000 dead, 1619 missing, and 200,000 people displaced. The 40% of the island which the Turks take contain 70% of the industry and mineral wealth, 80% of the tourist attractions and 65% of the cultivated land. For those who accuse the United States of being involved in the invasion it is interesting to note that on the 15th of July there are two intelligence reports at the State Department's SE Europe section office. One says that there is no imminent coup in Cyprus, the other that it has already begun. Still the belief of many is that Henry Kissinger is deeply involved in the calamity. But one can understand the confusion of the US administration during the crisis of Cyprus and the fall of the Athens Junta for even as all this is unfolding, Richard Nixon is resigning as President of the United States over the Watergate scandal and is replaced by Gerald Ford who had himself replaced disgraced vice-president Spiro Agnew. Regardless of what the Americans knew or didn't know, the Athens Junta's failed coup against Makarios which led to the Turkish invasion of Cyprus is a tragedy that continues to this day. As of 2005 over 1500 Cypriot men, women and children are still missing. ""


"""""Regardless of what the Americans knew or didn't know, the Athens Junta's failed coup against Makarios which led to the Turkish invasion of Cyprus is a tragedy that continues to this day. """
Last edited by miltiades on Tue Sep 09, 2008 9:30 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Postby bill cobbett » Tue Sep 09, 2008 9:29 pm

Oracle wrote:Miltiades I am nor absolving the Greek junta one iota, but they were not solely responsible. Your saintly USA was an accomplice ......

Now let this thread go back to bill cobbett's post from the Sunday Times regarding the barbaric violations by Turkey ....


O, you are so nice and thoughtful. Thanks. Here it is again.

"The terrible secrets of the Turkish invasion of Cyprus
The plight of Cyprus, with 40 per cent of the island still occupied by Turkish troops who invaded in the summer of 1974, is well known. But never before has the full story been told of what happened during and after the invasion. This article is based on the secret report of the European Commission of Human Rights. For obvious reasons, Insight has withdrawn the names of witnesses who gave evidence to the Commission.

INSIGHT

Killing
Relevant Article of Human Rights Convention: Everyone's right to life shall be protected by law.

Charge made by Greek Cypriots: The Turkish army embarked on a systematic course of mass killings of civilians unconnected with any war activity.

Turkish Defence: None offered, but jurisdiction challenged. By letter dated November 27, 1975, Turkey told the Commission it refused to accept the Greek Cypriot administration's right to go to the commission, "since there is no authority which can properly require the Turkish government to recognise against its will the legitimacy of a government which has usurped the powers of the state in violation of the constitution of which Turkey is a guarantor." No defence therefore offered to any other charges either.

Evidence given to the commission: Witness Mrs K said that on July 21, 1974, the second day of the Turkish invasion, she and a group of villagers from Elia were captured when, fleeing from bombardment, they tried to reach a range of mountains. All 12 men arrested were civilians. They were separated from the women and shot in front of the women, under the orders of a Turkish officer. Some of the men were holding children, three of whom were wounded.

Written statements referred to two more group killings: at Trimithi eyewitnesses told of the deaths of five men (two shepherds aged 60 and 70, two masons of 20 and 60, and a 19-year-old plumber). At Palekythron 30 Greek Cypriot soldiers being held prisoner were killed by their captors, according to the second statement.

Witness S gave evidence of two other mass killings at Palekythron. In each case, between 30 and 40 soldiers who had surrendered to the advancing Turks were shot. In the second case, the witness said, "the soldiers were transferred to the kilns of the village where they were shot dead and burnt in order not to leave details of what had happened."

Seventeen members of two neighbouring families, including 10 women and five children aged between two and nine were murdered in cold blood at Palekythron, reported witness H, a doctor. Further killing described in the doctor's notes, recording evidence related to him by patients (either eye-witnesses or victims) included:

Execution of eight civilians taken prisoner by Turkish soldiers in the area of Prastio, one day after the ceasefire on August 16, 1974.
Killing by Turkish soldiers of five unarmed Greek Cypriot soldiers who had sought refuge in a house at Voni.
Shooting of four women, one of whom survived by pretending she was dead.
Further evidence, taken in refugees camps and in the form of written statements, described killings of civilians in homes, streets or fields, as well as the killing of people under arrest or in detention. Eight statements described the killing of soldiers not in combat; five statements referred to a mass grave found in Dherynia.

Commission's verdict: By 14 votes to one, the commission considered there were "very strong indications" of violation of Article 2 and killings "committed on a substantial scale."

Rape
Relevant article: No one shall be subjected to torture or to inhuman or degrading treatment or punishment.

Charge by Greek Cypriots: Turkish troops were responsible for wholesale and repeated rapes of women of all ages from 12 to 71, sometimes to such an extent that the victims suffered haemorrhages or became mental wrecks. In some areas, enforced prostitution was practised, all women and girls of a village being collected and put into separate rooms in empty houses where they were raped repeatedly.

In certain cases members of the same family were repeatedly raped, some of them in front of their own children. In other cases women were brutally raped in public.

Rapes were on many occassions accompanied by brutalities such as violent biting of the victims causing severe wounding, banging their heads on the floor and wringing their throats almost to the point of suffocation. In some cases attempts to rape were followed by the stabbing or killing of the victims, victims included pregnant and mentally-retarded women.

Evidence to commission: Testimony of doctors C and H, who examined the victims. Eyewitnesses and hearsay witnesses also gave evidence, and the commission had before it written statements from 41 alleged victims.

Dr H said he had confirmed rape in 70 cases, including:

A mentally-retarded girl of 24 was raped in her house by 20 soldiers. When she started screaming they threw her from the second-floor window. She fractured her spine and was paralysed;
One day after their arrival at Voni, Turks took girls to a nearby house and raped them;
One woman from Voni was raped on three occassions by four persons each time. She became pregnant;
One girl, from Palekyhthrou, who was held with others in a house, was taken out at gunpoint and raped;
At Tanvu, Turkish soldiers tried to rape a 17-year-old schoolgirl. She resisted and was shot dead;
A woman from Gypsou told Dr H that 25 girls were kept by Turks at Marathouvouno as prostitutes.
Another witness said that his wife was raped in front of their children. Witness S told of 25 girls who complained to Turkish officers about being raped and were raped again by the officers. A man (name withheld) reported that his wife was stabbed in the neck while resisting rape. His grand-daughter, aged six, had been stabbed and killed by Turkish soldiers attempting to rape her.

A Red Cross witness said that in August 1974, while the island's telephones were still working, the Red Cross Society recieved calls from Palekyhthrou and Kaponti reporting rapes. The Red Cross also took care of 38 women released from Voni and Gypsou detention camps: all had been raped, some in front of their husbands and children. Others had been raped repeatedly, or put in houses frequented by Turkish soldiers.

These women were taken to Akrotiri hospital, in the British Sovereign Base Area, where they were treated. Three were found to be pregnant. Reference was also made to several abortions performed at the base.

Commission's verdict: By 12 votes to one the commission found "that the incidents of rape described in the cases referred to and regarded as established constitute 'inhuman treatment' and thus violations of Article 3 for which Turkey is responsible under the convention."

Torture
Relevant article: see above under Rape.

Charge by Greek-Cypriots: Hundreds of people, including children, women and pensioners, were victims of systematic torture and savage and humiliating treatment during their detention by the Turkish army. They were beaten, according to the allegations, sometimes to the extent of being incapacitated. Many were subjected to whipping, breaking of their teeth, knocking their heads against walls, beating with electrified clubs, stubbing of cigarettes on their skin, jumping and stepping on their chests an hands, pouring dirty liquids on them, piercing with bayonets, etc.

Many, it was said, were ill-treated to such an extent that they became mental and physical wrecks. The brutalities complained of reached their climax after the ceasefire agreements; in fact, most of the acts described were committed at a time when Turkish armed forces were not engaged in any war activities.

Evidence to Commission: Main witness was schoolteacher, one of 2,000 Greek Cypriot men deported to Turkey. He stated that he and his fellow detainees were repeatedly beaten after their arrest, on their way to Adana (in Turkey), in jail in Adana and in prison camp at Amasya.

On ship to Turkey - "That was another moment of terrible beating again. We were tied all the time. I lost sense of touch. I could not feel anything for about two or three months. Every time we asked for water or spoke we were being beaten."

Arriving at Adana - "...then, one by one, they led us to prisons, through a long corridor ... Going through that corridor was another terrible experience. There were about 100 soldiers from both sides with sticks, clubs and with their fists beating every one of us while going to the other end of the corridor .I was beaten at least 50 times until I reached the other end.

In Adana anyone who said he wanted to see a doctor was beaten. "Beating was on the agenda every day. There were one or two very good, very nice people, but they were afraid to show their kindness,as they told us."

Witness P spoke of:

A fellow prisoner who was kicked in the mouth. He lost several teeth "and his lower jaw came off in pieces."
A Turkish officer, a karate student, who exercised every day by hitting prisoners.
Fellow prisoners who were hung by the feet over the hole of a lavatory for hours.
A Turkish second lieutenant who used to prick all prisoners with a pin when they were taken into a yard.
Evidence from Dr H said that prisoners were in an emaciated condition on their return to Cyprus. On nine occasions he had found signs of wounds.

The doctor gave a general description of conditions in Adana and in detention camps in Cyprus (at Pavlides Garage and the Saray Prison in the Turkish quarter of Nicosia) as reported to him by former detainees. Food, he said, consisted of one-eighth of a loaf of bread a day, with occasional olives; there were two buckets of water and two mugs which were never cleaned, from which about 1,000 people had to drink; toilets were filthy, with faeces rising over the basins; floors ere covered faeces and urine; in jail in Adana prisoners were kept 76 to a cell with three towels between them and one block of soap per eight persons per month to wash themselves and their clothes.

One man, it was alleged, had to amputate his own toes with a razor blade as a consequence of ill-treatment. Caught in Achna with another man, they had been beaten up with hard objects. When he had asked for a glass of water he was given a glass full of urine. His toes were then stepped on until they became blue, swollen and eventually gangrenous. (The other man was said to have been taken to hospital in Nicosia, where he agreed to have his legs amputated. He did not survive the operation.)

According to witness S, "hundred of Greek Cypriots were beaten and dozens were executed. They have cut off their ears in some cases, like the case of Palekythro and Trahoni..." (verbatim record).

Verdict by commission: By 12 votes to one, the commission concluded that prisoners were in a number of cases physically ill-treated by Turkish soldiers. "These acts of ill-treatment caused considerable injuries and in at least one case, the death of the victim. By their severity they constitute 'inhuman treatment' in the sense of Article 3, for which Turkey is responsible under the convention."

Looting
Relevant article: Every natural or legal person is entitled to the peaceful enjoyment of his possessions.

Charge by Greek Cypriots: In all Turkish-occupied areas, the Turkish army systematically looted houses and business premises of Greek Cypriots.

Evidence to the commission: Looting in Kyrenia was described by witness C: "...The first days of looting of the shops was done by the army, of heavy things like refrigerators, laundry machines, television sets" (verbatim record).

For the weeks after the invasion, he said, he had watched Turkish naval ships taking on board the looted goods.

Witness K, a barrister, described the pillage of Famagusta: "At two o'clock on organised, systematic, terrifying, shocking, unbelievable looting started... We heard the breaking of doors, some of them iron doors, smashing of glass, and we were waiting for them any minute to enter the house. This lasted for about four hours."

Written statements by eyewitnesses of looting were corroborated by several reports by the secretary-general of the United Nations.

Verdict of the commission: The commission accepted that looting and robbery on an extensive scale, by Turkish troops and Turkish Cypriots, had taken place. By 12 votes to one, it established that there had been deprivation of possessions of Greek Cypriots on a large scale.

Other charges
On four counts: the commission concluded that Turkey had also violated an Article of the Convention asserting the right to respect for private and family life, home and correspondence. The commission also decided that Turkey was continuing to violate the Article by refusing to allow the return of more than 170,000 Greek Cypriot refugees to their homes in the north.

On three counts: the commission said Turkey had violated two more articles that specify that the rights and freedoms in the Convention shall be secured without discrimination on any ground, and that anyone whose rights are violated "shall have an effective remedy before a national authority.""
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Postby Floda » Tue Sep 09, 2008 9:57 pm

miltiades wrote:

"""""Regardless of what the Americans knew or didn't know, the Athens Junta's failed coup against Makarios which led to the Turkish invasion of Cyprus is a tragedy that continues to this day. """





The above statement is proof positive that you are completely unaware of the real reasons behind the invasion.

That you know as much about politics as my arse knows about "Snipe Shooting"

The extent of your political knowledge could easily be poked up a sparrow's arse with a bradawl. IMHO. :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
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Postby miltiades » Tue Sep 09, 2008 10:12 pm

Floda wrote:
miltiades wrote:

"""""Regardless of what the Americans knew or didn't know, the Athens Junta's failed coup against Makarios which led to the Turkish invasion of Cyprus is a tragedy that continues to this day. """





The above statement is proof positive that you are completely unaware of the real reasons behind the invasion.

That you know as much about politics as my arse knows about "Snipe Shooting"

The extent of your political knowledge could easily be poked up a sparrow's arse with a bradawl. IMHO. :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

Hey stupid , these are not my words but those of the link I gave !!
Stick to being dogged mate !
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