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The Sun - 8th August 1974

How can we solve it? (keep it civilized)

Postby DT. » Tue Sep 09, 2008 11:15 am

Nikitas wrote:"If there was no declaration the what the hell where Greek ships doing there."

This is FUNNY!!!

It was not Greek ships, it was the Turkish destroyer Kocatepe which the Turkish air force sank, killing hundreds of sailors. They also badly damaged two other Turkish ships. Read your sources.

As for sources for the break down of talks in Geneva (not Athens) , it was Ecevit who mentioned that the Greek side was presented with an ultimatum, to accept ceding 33 per cent of the island to the TC community and agree to partition. He said so on many occasions, in paper and TV inerviews. Find them and read them.

The say you learn a lot about people when they have they upper hand. We learned about the Turks. We do not forget. It is now the TCs turn to learn too. And judging from daily reports in the TC press they are getting there.


Its easier just to quote the Gunes plan Nikita
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Postby zan » Tue Sep 09, 2008 11:18 am

DT. wrote:
Nikitas wrote:"If there was no declaration the what the hell where Greek ships doing there."

This is FUNNY!!!

It was not Greek ships, it was the Turkish destroyer Kocatepe which the Turkish air force sank, killing hundreds of sailors. They also badly damaged two other Turkish ships. Read your sources.

As for sources for the break down of talks in Geneva (not Athens) , it was Ecevit who mentioned that the Greek side was presented with an ultimatum, to accept ceding 33 per cent of the island to the TC community and agree to partition. He said so on many occasions, in paper and TV inerviews. Find them and read them.

The say you learn a lot about people when they have they upper hand. We learned about the Turks. We do not forget. It is now the TCs turn to learn too. And judging from daily reports in the TC press they are getting there.


Its easier just to quote the Gunes plan Nikita


The BBC of the day was wrong and Nikitas is right :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:
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Postby Nikitas » Tue Sep 09, 2008 11:27 am

Bananiot wrote:

"He told the large crowed that attended the funeral that the Turkish army started executing people after the mass graves were discovered in Aloa, Sandalaris and another village whose name I do not remember now. There, women and children were brutaly murdered by Greek Cypriots."

And Sevgul Uludag has documented an equally horrible massacre going on AT THE SAME TIME as the Sandalaris massacre in Afania. The coincidence in time is a reminder that thugs of both sides did not need excuses to indulge in killing. These people were gangs of irregulars venting their hatred.

The point here Bananiot is that a disciplined army behaved like thugs. And this was done from day one of the invasion and it was deliberate policy. The field officers who encouraged the crimes then are now leaders of the Turkish armed forces and influence government decisions. They are the ones who also have a major say in what "red lines" the TC side sets in the negotiations. They are the ones who want to be our independence "guarantors".
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Postby zan » Tue Sep 09, 2008 11:32 am

Nikitas wrote:Bananiot wrote:

"He told the large crowed that attended the funeral that the Turkish army started executing people after the mass graves were discovered in Aloa, Sandalaris and another village whose name I do not remember now. There, women and children were brutaly murdered by Greek Cypriots."

And Sevgul Uludag has documented an equally horrible massacre going on AT THE SAME TIME as the Sandalaris massacre in Afania. The coincidence in time is a reminder that thugs of both sides did not need excuses to indulge in killing. These people were gangs of irregulars venting their hatred.

The point here Bananiot is that a disciplined army behaved like thugs. And this was done from day one of the invasion and it was deliberate policy. The field officers who encouraged the crimes then are now leaders of the Turkish armed forces and influence government decisions. They are the ones who also have a major say in what "red lines" the TC side sets in the negotiations. They are the ones who want to be our independence "guarantors".


this is what gets my blood boiling Nikitas....From day one the GCs started bombing TC strongholds before the Turks had even landed...In war what do you expect....I really am trying to strike a balance between fact and fiction but you guys make it so hard for all TCs to even contemplate listening to you... :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:
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Postby Nikitas » Tue Sep 09, 2008 11:40 am

Day one being July 20?

Bombing how? With planes that the GC side did not have?

You need to read some military accounts of the events. Not only political ones.

In war I expect a disciplined army to behave as an army not like a bunch of thugs on a rampage. Especially an army that claims to be carrying out a "peace operation". That is what I expect and whoever deviates from that is punished by the army itself.
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Postby denizaksulu » Tue Sep 09, 2008 11:47 am

Kifeas wrote:Okay, Oracle! Good luck with your very "bright" role as Zan's mirror image in this forum! You two are a perfect match to each other!


I thought there was a love/hate relationship here. Best wishes to both of you. :lol:
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Postby zan » Tue Sep 09, 2008 11:48 am

Nikitas wrote:Day one being July 20?

Bombing how? With planes that the GC side did not have?

You need to read some military accounts of the events. Not only political ones.

In war I expect a disciplined army to behave as an army not like a bunch of thugs on a rampage. Especially an army that claims to be carrying out a "peace operation". That is what I expect and whoever deviates from that is punished by the army itself.


Mortars came raining down on TC strong holds the moment that Turkey took to the seas Nikitas. They tried to disturb the landing before the Turks got there. I have never said that some acted terribly biut to insist that it was Turkeys intention to act that way from the start is just a fallacy of yours and that serves only Greek propaganda. :roll: :roll:
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Postby Nikitas » Tue Sep 09, 2008 12:01 pm

Oh, I see, the intention was to land and start handing out chocolates!

Leave us alone re koumbare!

The intention was to partition the island. And partition means expulsion of the indigenous population from the north. Terror was an instrument and it was used. What is the reason to deny the obvious?

Some of us were old enough to read back then, and we read the Times and Observer and followed events and interviews with Turkish officials and army men. Read the Sunday Times Insight reports from September 1974 titled "Something terrible has been happening here". Are they Greek propaganda too?

The strongest evidence of the policy is the treatment reserved for the GCs trapped in Karpasia. They were purely civilian, there had never been any military activity there nor any national guard units. Their presence was recorded by the UN so they had to be tolerated. They are the ones who own those restaurants that surprised you in your photos. Apparently you did not know that these people were cutoff in Karpasia and had not moved there after 1974.

Well, from day one these people were harassed and persecuted so from 20 000 they fell to a few hundred today.
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Postby zan » Tue Sep 09, 2008 12:10 pm

Nikitas wrote:Oh, I see, the intention was to land and start handing out chocolates!

Leave us alone re koumbare!

The intention was to partition the island. And partition means expulsion of the indigenous population from the north. Terror was an instrument and it was used. What is the reason to deny the obvious?

Some of us were old enough to read back then, and we read the Times and Observer and followed events and interviews with Turkish officials and army men. Read the Sunday Times Insight reports from September 1974 titled "Something terrible has been happening here". Are they Greek propaganda too?

The strongest evidence of the policy is the treatment reserved for the GCs trapped in Karpasia. They were purely civilian, there had never been any military activity there nor any national guard units. Their presence was recorded by the UN so they had to be tolerated. They are the ones who own those restaurants that surprised you in your photos. Apparently you did not know that these people were cutoff in Karpasia and had not moved there after 1974.

Well, from day one these people were harassed and persecuted so from 20 000 they fell to a few hundred today.


You spend all your time denying the events of 1963/64 and saying that it was not war in 1974 and now come out with Chocolates for the troops crap......You are even confusing yourself mate.... :roll: :roll:

We all know that there were ulterior motives for Greeks and Turks but you blame us for all of it and that is your downfall. The fact remains that had Makarios followed the advise of most of the world and not tried to bulldoze us into ENOSIS by changing the constitution unconstitutionally and any other dastardly way he could, then none of this would have happened because there would not have been a need for it. Simple really...

:roll: :roll:
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Postby miltiades » Tue Sep 09, 2008 2:04 pm

Paphitis wrote:
miltiades wrote:EVENTS AS PER WARS OF THE WORLD.
I beleive that few of us would dispute the following sequence of events and ever fewer will dispute the fact that had it not been for the Junta ordering the coup , and had Makarios not underestimated the stupidity of the Junta , Turkey would not have invaded. I have always maintained that the catastrophe that developed was as a result of the Greek Junta and I shall always hold them and their fascist ideas responsible , contrary to popular folklore that America was to blame.
During the spring of 1974, Cypriot intelligence found evidence that EOKA B was planning a coup and was being supplied, controlled, and funded by the military government in Athens. EOKA B was banned, but its operations continued underground. Early in July, Makarios wrote to the president of Greece demanding that the remaining 650 Greek officers assigned to the National Guard be withdrawn. He also accused the junta of plotting against his life and against the government of Cyprus. Makarios sent his letter (which was released to the public) to the Greek president on July 2, 1974; the reply came thirteen days later, not in the form of a letter but in an order from Athens to the Cypriot National Guard to overthrow its commander in chief and take control of the island.

Makarios narrowly escaped death in the attack by the Greek-led National Guard. He fled the presidential palace and went to Paphos. A British helicopter took him the Sovereign Base Area at Akrotiri, from where he went to London. Several days later, Makarios addressed a meeting of the UN Security Council, where he was accepted as the legal president of the Republic of Cyprus.

In the meantime, the notorious EOKA terrorist Nicos Sampson was declared provisional president of the new government. It was obvious to Ankara that Athens was behind the coup, and major elements of the Turkish armed forces went on alert. Turkey had made similar moves in 1964 and 1967, but had not invaded. At the same time, Turkish prime minister Bülent Ecevit flew to London to elicit British aid in a joint effort in Cyprus, as called for in the 1959 Treaty of Guarantee, but the British were either unwilling or unprepared and declined to take action as a guarantor power. The United States took no action to bolster the Makarios government, but Joseph J. Sisco, Under Secretary of State for Political Affairs, went to London and the eastern Mediterranean to stave off the impending Turkish invasion and the war between Greece and Turkey that might follow. The Turks demanded removal of Nicos Sampson and the Greek officers from the National Guard and a binding guarantee of Cypriot independence. Sampson, of course, was expendable to the Athens regime, but Sisco could get an agreement only to reassign the 650 Greek officers.

As Sisco negotiated in Athens, Turkish invasion ships were already at sea. A last-minute reversal might have been possible had the Greeks made concessions, but they did not. The intervention began early on July 20, 1974. Three days later the Greek junta collapsed in Athens, Sampson resigned in Nicosia, and the threat of war between NATO allies was over, but the Turkish army was on Cyprus.

Konstantinos Karamanlis, in self-imposed exile in France since 1963, was called back, to head the Greek government once more. Clerides was sworn in as acting president of the Republic of Cyprus, and the foreign ministers of the guarantor powers met in Geneva on July 25 to discuss the military situation on the island. Prime Minister Ecevit publicly welcomed the change of government in Greece and seemed genuinely interested in eliminating the tensions that had brought the two countries so close to war. Nevertheless, during the truce that was arranged, Turkish forces continued to take territory, to improve their positions, and to build up their supplies of war matériel.

A second conference in Geneva began on August 10, with Clerides and Denktas as the Cypriot representatives. Denktas proposed a bizonal federation, with Turkish Cypriots controlling 34 percent of island. When this proposal was rejected, the Turkish foreign minister proposed a Turkish Cypriot zone in the northern part of the island and five Turkish Cypriot enclaves elsewhere, all of which would amount once again to 34 percent of the island's area. Clerides asked for a recess of thirty-six to forty-eight hours to consult with the government in Nicosia and with Makarios in London. His request was refused, and early on August 14 the second phase of the Turkish intervention began. Two days later, after having seized 37 percent of the island above what the Turks called the "Atilla Line," the line that ran from Morphou Bay in the northwest to Famagusta (Gazimagusa) in the east, the Turks ordered a ceasefire.

The de facto partition of Cyprus resulting from the Turkish invasion, or intervention, as the Turks preferred to call their military action, caused much suffering in addition to the thousands of dead, many of whom were unaccounted for even years later. An estimated one-third of the population of each ethnic community had to flee their homes. The island's economy was devastated.

Efforts were undertaken immediately to remedy the effects of the catastrophe. Intensive government economic planning and intervention on both sides of the island soon improved living standards and allowed the construction of housing for refugees. Both communities benefited greatly from the expansion of the tourist industry, which brought millions of foreign visitors to the island during the 1980s. The economic success of the Republic of Cyprus was significant enough to seem almost miraculous. Within just a few years, the refugees had housing and were integrated in the bustling economy, and Greek Cypriots enjoyed a West European standard of living. Turkish Cypriots did not do as well, but, working against an international embargo imposed by the Republic of Cyprus and benefiting from extensive Turkish aid, they managed to ensure a decent standard of living for all members of their community--a standard of living, in fact, that was higher than that of Turkey. Both communities established government agencies to provide public assistance to those who needed it and built modern education systems extending to the university level.


Miltiades,

Please re-evaluate your nonsense.

The Cyprus Tragedy had the following co-conspirators:
1) USA,
2) Greece,
3) Turkey, and
4) A significant portion of Cypriot society (EOKA B).

The ultimate aim of the coup was to facilitate double union of Cyprus with Greece and Turkey. It was engineered by The CIA in order to enslave Cyprus under 2 NATO aligned nations and thus prevent the AKEL influenced Cypriot people from developing closer ties with The Soviet Union. NATO feared the prospect of any Soviet influence in the Eastern Mediterranean, and acted accordingly by destroying Cyprus as a nation.

The GCs and TCs were mere pawns in what was a high stake Cold War battle between The USA and The Soviet Union. In the end, the USA won this battle, by cutting in 2 the island of Cyprus.

You should read "The Cyprus Conspiracy" by Brendan O'Mally.

Now, if you do not mind, please refrain from posting such Bollocks as above. I am way too busy ATM to be dealing with your ignorance as I have tests to prepare for. :roll:

I will be back by Sat.

Don't bother mate , stupid comments we get plenty without you adding more !!
The culprits were the Greek Junta FULL STOP !!
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