Cyprus-Forum.com

[turkcyp]

deleted by the author...

[boulio]

Such gamesmanship is already receiving discreet encouragement in parts of Europe (eg, France and Austria) where a dust-up between Turkey and the EU would be welcome. But as James Ker-Lindsay of Civilitas, a think-tank in Nicosia, also points out, in the longer term no state has more to lose from a bout of Turkish disenchantment with the EU than Cyprus

i wouldn't call trying to get your property back(that you were forced to flee at gunpoint) gamesmanship.

[Kifeas]

Such gamesmanship is already receiving discreet encouragement in parts of Europe (eg, France and Austria) where a dust-up between Turkey and the EU would be welcome. But as James Ker-Lindsay of Civilitas, a think-tank in Nicosia, also points out, in the longer term no state has more to lose from a bout of Turkish disenchantment with the EU than Cyprus.

*****
Comment:
Bolded section is the sections GCs keeps on missing always.

Who said bold section is the section GCs keep on missing?

Then why GCs didn't object to the granding of accession date and instead they let it go with the minimum concession on the part of Turkey?

[turkcyp]

deleted by the author...

[Kifeas]

It is not that GCs do not know a Turkey in EU is better for them. It is the fact that they are ready to play the role befitted to them by France and Austia instead of themselves, is what I am referring to.

What do you mean by that? Do you mean to say that we should not put obstacles on Turkeys accession road if there is no change in Turkey’s attitude and /or we should not block Turkey’s final accession if there is no solution to the Cyprus problem, because it will be seen as doing the dirty work for France and Austria?

At the end of the day doesn’t Turkey know that if anybody going to block their membership, it is not RoC but rather one of the other EU countries, like France, Germany, Austria, Netherlands etc. etc.

We may as well block Turkey’s membership if there is no solution, irrespective of whatever any other E.U. countries want or think about it. The more the other E.U. countries favour Turkey’s accession, the better for us.

So knowing this do you really think that Turkey really gives a rats ass to what RoC thinks. Do you really think Turkish foreign policy is that naïve to not realize know who is actually pulling the strings and also they know RoC is simply doing the dirty work of the others (dirty work meaning putting blocking stones in front of Turkey for EU accession).

Each country has their own agenda and interests and so do we.

Knowing all these what makes you think that Turkey will be more inclined to give in Cyprus before it guarantees EU membership. Do you think they are naïve enough to give in Cyprus, and being rejected at the last minute by another EU member?
Well if Turkey continues to be the intransigent and uncompromising factor in Cyprus, and it is as far as we are concerned, there is no way she will ever find out whether the rest of the E.U. countries are indeed serious with her final accession in the E.U.

This is what I mean when I say GCs keep on missing. They think they gotthe Turkey by the balls, but in reality if more than one country (meaning France, Austira, etc. etc) gets Turkey by the balls then there is no value to Cyprus veto power.

No we didn’t get Turkey by both the balls. We got her only by one ball. For 30 years Turkey held us by both our balls. Now we managed to release one of our two balls and simultaneously grab Turkey from one hers. It seems a little bit better than before. What do you think?

That is my point. The expectation that Turkey will give in substantially to much to RoC because of EU desires is just an empty dream. That is the point GCs keeps on missing.

We do not ask substantially too much. We only ask what is just and fair. She must be ready to ask from us as much as she is willing to give to the Kurds in Turkey.
But heck, it worth’s a try is what many GCs are thinking. To them, I would ask, does it really worth a try? Everyday a new building is being built in the north, everyday a new person moves to north (either from Turkey or from EU itself) makes the solution to find harder, and makes partition more permanent.

For example do you really believe that Orams in their life time would demolish their house in north? They have put thousands of pounds onto that house, do you really belive that they will throw that away? The worst case scenario they will go and sell their house in UK put the money into a Swiss bank account and move to north completely.

Our target was not to single out Orams and punish them for that sake. Our goal was to discourage the rest of potential foreign buyers from doing the same. It seems to already have an effect.

Forget about the UK arrest warrant as well. Because I do not know how this arrest warrants is going to work in EU as well.

According to EU arrest warrants can be issued if there is a minimum sentence of 12 months associated with the alleged crime (hence RoC changing more than 30 year old law and increase the sentence from 6 months to more than 12 months, last year) but also EU law says that for a country to oblige by the arrest warrant the same crime should call for more than 12 month in that country too. Currently in UK illegal trespassing that these people are doing, or the alleged crime has a sentence for 3 months. What the RoC is going to do? Force UK government to change its laws too?

Your facts are wrong. The minimum sentence in the country in which the offence is committed should be 2 years. In Cyprus it was one year and we changed it to 2 years in order to satisfy the requirement. Also it does not have to have the same duration of punishment in each and every E.U. country. It simply has to be an offence in the particular country, irrespective of the type and length of punishment. The U.K does not have to change any of its laws. The act of trespassing is already an offence in the U.K. as well as in the rest of the E.U.

And this goes for Anglo’s argument in a different thread. He claimed that in each of the E.U. countries it has to be an offence to commit trespassing specifically in north Cyprus. I never heard a more ridicules argument. It is like saying that if an E.U. citizen commits a murder in Cyprus and then escapes arrest and goes somewhere in Europe, the RoC cannot issue an arrest warrant because the law of that particular country in which the person is found, does not specifically and explicitly say that it is an offence to commit a murder in Cyprus, but only in that country. Anglo further claimed that because the law has been changed recently, it doesn’t cover retroactively those that “bought” property before this law. The buyers and the developers are not charged for “developing,” “buying” or “selling” property but for committing a trespass. The trespass is a continues violation. It may have started before the change of the law, but it didn’t end after the change of the law. The trespassers continue to commit trespassing and therefore they continue to commit the offence.

Another point is this. Majority of individual buyers are British. A Brit comes and buys a house. But majority of land sold goes to Israelis. Where they come and buy land in hundreds of donums for land speculation purposes, and for property development. What is RoC going to do for Israelis? Get EU arrest warrant for them too?

Yes RoC can issue an arrest warrant for them too. This will prohibit them from travelling in the E.U. Further more there are bilateral agreements for arrest warrants, outside the E.U. countries.

Moral of the whole post:
The time is not working in favor of GCs and time is only solidifying the partition.

There can NEVER be an agreed partition in Cyprus with 35% or 30% or even 20% of the territory. Perhaps if TCs (indigenous TCs) decide on a referendum (under the authority of RoC) that they want partition, then this might be possible. But the percentage of territory will be 18% minus the whatever percentage (and I am sure there will be a substantial portion) of TCs that will choose to remain citizens of the RoC.

If some TCs and /or part of their leadership wish and hope for things to remain as they are now, having the secret aspiration that this will facilitate a future partition with the territory that Turkey currently occupies, they are making VERY dangerous thoughts. We will NEVER agree to something like that, irrespective of what and which countries will recognise it. From a legal and political perspective, neither E.U. nor the UN can ever recognise a separate TC state.

I hope (I am almost certain) that a new round of talks will begin any time soon. I am sure Papadopoullos and the GC side will negotiate in good faith and will present fair and logical demands. I wish Turkey and the TC leadership will appear in the talks with an equal amount of good faith and logic and accommodate the reasonable demands of the GC side. I hope by the end of this year we will be much closer to a solution than we are now. It depends on the International factor but primarily on the Turkish side.

[MicAtCyp]

Turkcyp,

When someone does not want a solution he does everything to make it impossible.This is the easiest thing to do.In short whatever your side did so far was to make the solution impossible.
a)They locked you up for 30 years.
b)They brought in settlers and forced the native TCs to emmigrate due to unemployment.They gave our land to the settlers.
c)Now the sell our land to foreigners. Notice they don't allow that easily a TC to sell originally owned TC land, contrary to if the land belongs to a GC.

Do you know what will be next ? The cost of living will get so high, that all the native TCs except some elitists will emmigrate. In the end the population at the occupied will be 20% TC elitists, 30% foreigners and 50% cheap labourers or settlers serving the rest.

By the way I found the article totally wrong on many points.For example

This week Tassos Papadopoulos, the Greek-Cypriot
president, seemed uncomfortable when he was reported,
both by Turkey and the UN, to have shown openness to
fresh peace moves during discussions in the margins of
the Victory Day celebrations in Moscow.

He was not uncomfortable at all! In fact he was very pleased with his metting with Ertogan, he could hardly hide his enthusiasm for what they talked about and agreed.
In general I see a totally negative attitute from some circles to whatever Papadopoulos does or says or not does do or does not say. If you are looking for the exact mouthpiece of those circles look at Bananiot. He is their spokesman.