Cyprus-Forum.com

[zan]

Sorry friends but blaming Britain for all your woes doesn't wash at all. It was Cyprus who wanted to terminate it's relationship with the UK after murdering British troops and citizens under Grivas and, when Britain pulled out it was Cyprus once again, who didn't want to remain in the British Commonwealth with all the protection that would have afforded. Had Mrs Thatcher been Prime Minister when the Turks invaded there might have been a different outcome but there was a Labour government in the UK and they never honour their obligations either to allies or their electorate. You brought it on yourselves but you are certainly making up for it by robbing expats who live here blind in every way you can think of.

Britains Role


Britain opposed freedom and democracy for Cyprus following World War II and bears the original and primary responsibility for the post-World War II tragedies that have befallen Cyprus. While other colonies were gaining their freedom, Cyprus was told by the British Minister of State for Colonial Affairs Harry Hopkinson, during a House of Commons debate in 1954, that "[t]here can be no question of any change of sovereignty in Cyprus" and that "there are certain territories in the Commonwealth which, owing to their particular circumstances, can never expect to be fully independent."

Following the Hopkinson "never" statement, Greece decided to bring an application for self-determination to the 1954 UN General Assembly session on behalf of the people of Cyprus. Britain opposed the application. Although Turkey had renounced all rights to Cyprus in the Lausanne Treaty of 1923, Britain claimed that the presence of an eighteen percent Turkish Cypriot minority was an obstacle to a solution. Britain called for a tripartite conference among Britain, Greece and Turkey which was held in London in late August and early September 1955 to discuss the situation in Cyprus. The conference ended in failure. Britain, however, accomplished her objective: greater Turkish involvement in the matter to blunt the Greek Government’s efforts on behalf of self-determination for the people of Cyprus.

btw ... excellent answers in above posts by Piratis ....

In 1878 Sir garnet Wolseley was greeted by Church leaders who appealed for British assistance in achieving ENOSIS......Where is the fight for independence in that dear boy Even then your schools where teaching the Megali idea to Cypriots.....

You have gone back to an irrelevant part of history to lay some claim ... failed.

I first learnt about the Megali Idea in British schools ... and they do not like the Ottoman-Turks ... better censor what your kids are exposed to in your North London schools zan!

First of all.....Who gives a monkeys armpit where you learned it from... secondly......Nothing is irrelevant when it comes to the Cyprob or all of it is...You cannot have it both ways darlin.....If nothing then say hello to the TRNC and shut up about what happens to us...

[repulsewarrior]

Also, Piratis this majority rule -minority right would fit quite well into the present context here in Cyprus, don't you think so ??

A true democracy where all citizens are equal without racist discriminations and where the human, minority and democratic rights of all are respected is what would fit best everywhere.

If there is respect for human rights then the separate protection of 'minority rights' is unnecessary (and invariably complicates matters). Advancing minority rights only makes sense when one has no confidence in the human rights regime.

advancing minority rights includes people with special needs, like the handicapped. in any case the world is not a perfect place, we learn, then we adapt.

in Cyprus to sustain a "Greekness" and a "Turkishness", we as Cypriots must recognise that the demographics will not stay the same forever, and that the advent of a new age is upon us; thus the "Bicommunal" experiment. ...it is our responsibility toward Mankind to demonstrate by our acts, with this Principal, a path we make, which in its steps, allows all Humanity to follow.

as an enemy of what followed the First World War and the spawn, Hitler, one needs to read the great books of Anthropology during these two periods of time. the change, for which millions died, is the realisation that in our needs we are the same, yet the plunder which marks the history of our species continues.

here is our curse, unlike any other living creature, our reason must be applied, for our suvival, part of a bigger system if you will, beyond the scope this planet offers for lifeforms to exist. we realise changes in ourselves. our fear is in the unknown, (which we continue to reflect with nature (and toward each other) as adversaries that must be changed and a function of our exploitation). this is the denial, that the Universe within us must change, to overcome the fear, where in our anxiety we fight, against change.

history is alive, thank goodness, the intent of change is always to be questioned; this is Freewill, the engine of our progress.

...oops thought this was the 'education' thread.

...on the subject of Britain and Turkey as interlocutors in our affairs, this island's dwellers, it is more of the self serving power struggle that remains a throw back to the time which was before the Modern Age, and which continue to prevail in International Affairs.

In Cyprus, we have a rare opportunity, and my hope is that as Cypriots, we will continue to remain, one of the most socialised people in the world, moreso, Great Cooperators.

[humanist]

warior, I enjoy reading your posts because in some respect they reflect my philosophical and spiritual views.

However, on the Cypro we aint going anywhere. Cyprus lack intellectuals therefore we will continue to have divisions, we will continue to have innequalities and we will continue to have bitterness. We are our own destruction.

We have a pacifist of a President and we have puppett of a leader and they are trying to reach a solution. A problematic issue. The TC's were blaming Papadopouls for not including them in any discussions as he felt that Turkey is the problem. If we accept this then he was right. Now they have been given what they wanted inclussion in a solution process and from where I sit is very scary, I find some of the attitude racist, discriminatory and inconsiderate of other Cypriots. Perhaps, it is time we do turn the blame for this situation on the TC's because as far as I can see they are the one's proposing unification based on discrimination, fascism and intolerance. Is this the cyprus of tomorrow that I would like to live in????? I think not.

[zan]

warior, I enjoy reading your posts because in some respect they reflect my philosophical and spiritual views.

However, on the Cypro we aint going anywhere. Cyprus lack intellectuals therefore we will continue to have divisions, we will continue to have innequalities and we will continue to have bitterness. We are our own destruction.

We have a pacifist of a President and we have puppett of a leader and they are trying to reach a solution. A problematic issue. The TC's were blaming Papadopouls for not including them in any discussions as he felt that Turkey is the problem. If we accept this then he was right. Now they have been given what they wanted inclussion in a solution process and from where I sit is very scary, I find some of the attitude racist, discriminatory and inconsiderate of other Cypriots. Perhaps, it is time we do turn the blame for this situation on the TC's because as far as I can see they are the one's proposing unification based on discrimination, fascism and intolerance. Is this the cyprus of tomorrow that I would like to live in????? I think not.

Don't worry Humanist...Your school books might be changing for the better which will give you greater understanding of what is really needed in Cyprus and will make you feel foolish for wanting an ideology and not living in the real world.......Happy reading...If your racist government and church allow it that is!!!!

[CopperLine]

Piratis,
Who said anything about 'surrender' ? Where did that idea pop up ? I have literally no idea what you're talking about now.

[Oracle]

Turkish army members arrested in Ergenekon probe

Five lieutenants and a cadet were detained last Thursday within the scope of Ergenekon probe and also a total of 17 people were detained.

Sunday, 21 September 2008 14:54

Four lieutenants and a military student have been arrested as a part of a probe into a right-wing group accused of plotting to overthrow the government on Sunday, Turkish media reported.

Five lieutenants and a cadet were detained last Thursday within the scope of Ergenekon probe and also a total of 17 people were detained.

The military's chief of General Staff had said in a statement the six detentions were made on the orders of the Istanbul prosecutor.

It had been the first time that active officers have been detained in the widening probe, which has already led to the arrest of around 90 people, including two retired generals.

The existence of Ergenekon, a behind-the-scenes network attempting to use social and psychological engineering to shape the country in accordance with its own ultranationalist ideology, has long been suspected, but the current investigation into the group began only in 2007, when a house in İstanbul's Ümraniye district that was being used as an arms depot was discovered by police.

The investigation was expanded to reveal elements of what in Turkey is called the deep state, finally proving the existence of the network, which is currently being accused of trying to incite chaos and disorder in order to trigger a coup against the Justice and Development Party (AK Party) government.

Just added this here since we were discussing the involvement of Ergenekon in the deep state, earlier in the thread ... and the trial is pending 20th October.

[denizaksulu]

Turkish army members arrested in Ergenekon probe

Five lieutenants and a cadet were detained last Thursday within the scope of Ergenekon probe and also a total of 17 people were detained.

Sunday, 21 September 2008 14:54

Four lieutenants and a military student have been arrested as a part of a probe into a right-wing group accused of plotting to overthrow the government on Sunday, Turkish media reported.

Five lieutenants and a cadet were detained last Thursday within the scope of Ergenekon probe and also a total of 17 people were detained.

The military's chief of General Staff had said in a statement the six detentions were made on the orders of the Istanbul prosecutor.

It had been the first time that active officers have been detained in the widening probe, which has already led to the arrest of around 90 people, including two retired generals.

The existence of Ergenekon, a behind-the-scenes network attempting to use social and psychological engineering to shape the country in accordance with its own ultranationalist ideology, has long been suspected, but the current investigation into the group began only in 2007, when a house in İstanbul's Ümraniye district that was being used as an arms depot was discovered by police.

The investigation was expanded to reveal elements of what in Turkey is called the deep state, finally proving the existence of the network, which is currently being accused of trying to incite chaos and disorder in order to trigger a coup against the Justice and Development Party (AK Party) government.

Just added this here since we were discussing the involvement of Ergenekon in the deep state, earlier in the thread ... and the trial is pending 20th October.

Oacle, are you running out of ideas? really.

[Nikitas]

Deniz said:

"The right wing and the 'Military' no longer have such power. That is good. Perhaps there is something that Greece and the Greeks can learn a lesson from."

There was an open, televised, debate in the Greek parliament in 1988 or 89 if memory serves, in which these matters were discussed. It was fascinating to hear live people like Mitsotakis and Papandreou (Andreas) who were ministers in the 60s detail how Greek policy had been "unionists" in the Cyprus issue and how that policy changed after 1974.

Now we are waiting to see an open debate regarding Cyprus policy in Turkey and how that policy was realised in Cyprus since 1974 with forced colonisation and all the other practices implemented daily in the north. Give us a nudge when that happens.

As for the right wind having power, they have several seats in Parliament, less than either the Communst or the Eurocommunist parties.

What is not getting through in this forum is that Greece in the EU has changed radically. The image protrayed here is of Greece in the late 19th and early 20th century. It has no bearing on reality.

[denizaksulu]

Deniz said:

"The right wing and the 'Military' no longer have such power. That is good. Perhaps there is something that Greece and the Greeks can learn a lesson from."

There was an open, televised, debate in the Greek parliament in 1988 or 89 if memory serves, in which these matters were discussed. It was fascinating to hear live people like Mitsotakis and Papandreou (Andreas) who were ministers in the 60s detail how Greek policy had been "unionists" in the Cyprus issue and how that policy changed after 1974.

Now we are waiting to see an open debate regarding Cyprus policy in Turkey and how that policy was realised in Cyprus since 1974 with forced colonisation and all the other practices implemented daily in the north. Give us a nudge when that happens.

As for the right wind having power, they have several seats in Parliament, less than either the Communst or the Eurocommunist parties.

What is not getting through in this forum is that Greece in the EU has changed radically. The image protrayed here is of Greece in the late 19th and early 20th century. It has no bearing on reality.

Nikitas, I was only quoting what someone else had posted. Sorry for any misunderstandind on the 'quote' issue. I would never make a political statement.

[zan]

Deniz said:

"The right wing and the 'Military' no longer have such power. That is good. Perhaps there is something that Greece and the Greeks can learn a lesson from."

There was an open, televised, debate in the Greek parliament in 1988 or 89 if memory serves, in which these matters were discussed. It was fascinating to hear live people like Mitsotakis and Papandreou (Andreas) who were ministers in the 60s detail how Greek policy had been "unionists" in the Cyprus issue and how that policy changed after 1974.

Now we are waiting to see an open debate regarding Cyprus policy in Turkey and how that policy was realised in Cyprus since 1974 with forced colonisation and all the other practices implemented daily in the north. Give us a nudge when that happens.

As for the right wind having power, they have several seats in Parliament, less than either the Communst or the Eurocommunist parties.

What is not getting through in this forum is that Greece in the EU has changed radically. The image protrayed here is of Greece in the late 19th and early 20th century. It has no bearing on reality.

What some people will believe and what is reality behind closed doors seems to have a massive void in the middle.......