Cyprus-Forum.com

[Tim Drayton]

I think I have finally fathomed what makes Oracle tick. As she has rightly pointed out, in the natural sciences hypotheses may be tested experimentally. This is not possible in the social sciences and humanities. She therefore assumes that all scientific principles can be thrown out of the window in situations where it is impossible to test hypotheses. This is her fatal error. There exist accepted scientific principles in the humanities as well, such as intellectual rigour, striving towards objectivity, careful assessment of evidence and logical argument. You cannot throw out the baby with the bathwater just because there are no testable hypotheses. As one who is trained in the social sciences/humanities I have watched in puzzlement at the way she throws up all kinds of unsustained allegations and engages in ridiculous exercises such as posting articles that are supposed to prove these allegations when a sober reading reveals that they do not. How sad.

[Viewpoint]

I think I have finally fathomed what makes Oracle tick. As she has rightly pointed out, in the natural sciences hypotheses may be tested experimentally. This is not possible in the social sciences and humanities. She therefore assumes that all scientific principles can be thrown out of the window in situations where it is impossible to test hypotheses. This is her fatal error. There exist accepted scientific principles in the humanities as well, such as intellectual rigour, striving towards objectivity, careful assessment of evidence and logical argument. You cannot throw out the baby with the bathwater just because there are no testable hypotheses. As one who is trained in the social sciences/humanities I have watched in puzzlement at the way she throws up all kinds of unsustained allegations and engages in ridiculous exercises such as posting articles that are supposed to prove these allegations when a sober reading reveals that they do not. How sad.

Tim I gave up on that twisted, bitter Turk hater a long time ago, you should do as well its just not worth it. If you do not value their opinion then it has not impact you should try it I guarantee it works, for she feeds off your responses and will continue to punch the air.

[Nikitas]

"The results of the loss of the Moslem inhabitants of the Aegean islands "

Deniz,

I would love to have the standard of living of the Turkish inhabitants of Rhodos or Kos. Which islands other than Crete lost their Turkish inhabitants? What similar treatment of people to that of Imvros and Tenedos can you find anywhere except for Diego Garcia where the British expelled the TOTAL population to make room for an air base?

Turkey has no open prisons anywhere on its soil except for Imvros and Tenedros. How odd!

[Tim Drayton]

I think I have finally fathomed what makes Oracle tick. As she has rightly pointed out, in the natural sciences hypotheses may be tested experimentally. This is not possible in the social sciences and humanities. She therefore assumes that all scientific principles can be thrown out of the window in situations where it is impossible to test hypotheses. This is her fatal error. There exist accepted scientific principles in the humanities as well, such as intellectual rigour, striving towards objectivity, careful assessment of evidence and logical argument. You cannot throw out the baby with the bathwater just because there are no testable hypotheses. As one who is trained in the social sciences/humanities I have watched in puzzlement at the way she throws up all kinds of unsustained allegations and engages in ridiculous exercises such as posting articles that are supposed to prove these allegations when a sober reading reveals that they do not. How sad.

Tim I gave up on that twisted, bitter Turk hater a long time ago, you should do as well its just not worth it. If you do not value their opinion then it has not impact you should try it I guarantee it works, for she feeds off your responses and will continue to punch the air.

Do you know what really scares me? Clearly, in every community you will come across deranged fanatic racists. However, I so often see that the views expressed by this individual, far from attracting any kind of criticism from other members of her own community, seem to meet with a kind of semi-tacit consent. I have seen posts in which her logic leads inescapably to a call for genocide of the Turkish Cypriots, then somebody from Australia who according to his screen name is a "humanist" chimes in with an inane comment along the lines of, "Good on ya, Oracles." This makes me wonder if the kind of views you express need to be taken more seriously.

[Cem]

Cem,

If you miss the Greeks of Istanbul why dont you restore their civil rights and property and invite them back? What is the fear from a few thousand people?

Don't I wish so ! You are talking as if everything depended on my will !
And, for your info, they were not a few thousands but a few hundred thousands as this disgusting handiwork of that creep Menderes (rot in hell) caused the emigration of hundreds of thousands of greeks from İstanbul which did not occur spontanoeusly but spead over decades hereafter.

But... you have made a good point here and I caught you redhanded on the spot. Since Dora Bakayonni and Kostas Simitis are so keen in getting Turkey into EU and thus playing Sirtaki with AKP government that way, then why:
Greek government itself does not make such a request ?
It looks Turkey is now moving on her path to EU membership (!), then why Bakoyanni-Simitis do not push for the re-opening of the theological school in Halkilikia (Heybeliada, one of the Prince islands off Istanbul coast).
Why not re-open Agia-Sophia as a church, to service the tiny Christian minority of Turkey ?

Why not to invite Greek residents of hundreds of villages in the Aegean-now vacant- as well as Imbros and Tenedos to come back and resettle ?

I don't give a flying fuck about the religion as I am an atheist, however, I maintain that everyone should have the right to speak his(her) own language and practice his (her) own faith.

There is also a strategic aspect of these stories, Nikitas..

Even leaving aside the moral and the ethics, if I were a cunning turkish politician, then I would take every measure to protect the minorities of my country and care for them, so as to dispel my rivals' (Greece) accusations, even start a counter-attack by questioning the fate of turks in Aegean islands, particularly Rhodes and Crete.

[Viewpoint]

I think I have finally fathomed what makes Oracle tick. As she has rightly pointed out, in the natural sciences hypotheses may be tested experimentally. This is not possible in the social sciences and humanities. She therefore assumes that all scientific principles can be thrown out of the window in situations where it is impossible to test hypotheses. This is her fatal error. There exist accepted scientific principles in the humanities as well, such as intellectual rigour, striving towards objectivity, careful assessment of evidence and logical argument. You cannot throw out the baby with the bathwater just because there are no testable hypotheses. As one who is trained in the social sciences/humanities I have watched in puzzlement at the way she throws up all kinds of unsustained allegations and engages in ridiculous exercises such as posting articles that are supposed to prove these allegations when a sober reading reveals that they do not. How sad.

Tim I gave up on that twisted, bitter Turk hater a long time ago, you should do as well its just not worth it. If you do not value their opinion then it has not impact you should try it I guarantee it works, for she feeds off your responses and will continue to punch the air.

Do you know what really scares me? Clearly, in every community you will come across deranged fanatic racists. However, I so often see that the views expressed by this individual, far from attracting any kind of criticism from other members of her own community, seem to meet with a kind of semi-tacit consent. I have seen posts in which her logic leads inescapably to a call for genocide of the Turkish Cypriots, then somebody from Australia who according to his screen name is a "humanist" chimes in with an inane comment along the lines of, "Good on ya, Oracles." This makes me wonder if the kind of views you express need to be taken more seriously.

Thats a great analysis because it backs up the belief of many TCs that 70 to 80% of GC people think just like Oracle but conceal their true emotions until a point where they have the upper hand and can enforce what they percieve as being right for GCs only and sod the rest if they dont agree with what we demand then they must be wrong mentlity is what drives TCs to demand safeguards that guarantee that GCs stick to the rules and know exactly the consequencies if they should decide to feel they can renege or manipulate any future agreements.

[Oracle]

I think I have finally fathomed what makes Oracle tick. As she has rightly pointed out, in the natural sciences hypotheses may be tested experimentally. This is not possible in the social sciences and humanities. She therefore assumes that all scientific principles can be thrown out of the window in situations where it is impossible to test hypotheses. This is her fatal error. There exist accepted scientific principles in the humanities as well, such as intellectual rigour, striving towards objectivity, careful assessment of evidence and logical argument. You cannot throw out the baby with the bathwater just because there are no testable hypotheses. As one who is trained in the social sciences/humanities I have watched in puzzlement at the way she throws up all kinds of unsustained allegations and engages in ridiculous exercises such as posting articles that are supposed to prove these allegations when a sober reading reveals that they do not. How sad.

Whereas you seem to suffer from Attention Deficit Disorder.

Kindly stick to countering the information otherwise admit defeat or stop posting. I have provided ample back-up for my conclusions ... whereas you prefer to gossip with VP.

[Cem]

Oracle,

that Ergenekon story is nothing but the outcome of the settling of accounts between secular-nationalists and islamic fundamentalists in Turkey, the latter backed up by the EU and the USA.
It looks, Greece and ROC seem to be closer to islamists than nationalists for obvious reasons.
And nothing could be more wrong..
It remains to be seen what would be the fate of average christian in turkey, let alone secularists, in an increasingly islamized society.
It will only a matter of time before US policy of supporting what is called "mild islamism" backfires..
In short, the antithesis of ultra-nationalism is not at all islam, but a true democratic regime, preferably a leftist but at the same time a multi-culturalist regime.
Ultra-nationalism and islamic fundamentalism always go hand-in-hand.
Particularly in Turkey......

[CopperLine]

Oracle,

that Ergenekon story is nothing but the outcome of the settling of accounts between secular-nationalists and islamic fundamentalists in Turkey, the latter backed up by the EU and the USA.
It looks, Greece and ROC seem to be closer to islamists than nationalists for obvious reasons.
And nothing could be more wrong..
It remains to be seen what would be the fate of average christian in turkey, let alone secularists, in an increasingly islamized society.
It will only a matter of time before US policy of supporting what is called "mild islamism" backfires..
In short, the antithesis of ultra-nationalism is not at all islam, but a true democratic regime, preferably a leftist but at the same time a multi-culturalist regime.
Ultra-nationalism and islamic fundamentalism always go hand-in-hand.
Particularly in Turkey......

Exactly

[Tim Drayton]

I have provided ample back-up for my conclusions ... whereas you prefer to gossip with VP.

You have provided none whatsoever.

Your claim - shall we call it a hypothesis - that Ergenekon is controlling the current Turkish government is illogical in so many ways. If this were so, why are they not pulling any strings to free the dozens of their members currently languishing in jail?