Cyprus-Forum.com

[CopperLine]

It is also worth noting that one of the allegations against the Ergenekon consipracy - that there was some kind of serious conspiracy against the established government is beyond doubt - is that plans had been made for a coup to be launched against the Turkish government if the Annan referendum had resulted in a yes vote across Cyprus. In other words the deep state - not the AKP government - was hostile to any Cyprus settlement which envisaged Turkey relinquishing Cyprus.

What Oracle and her ultra-racist ilk simply fail to understand is that politics is driven by interests, not by racist ideology.

[Cem]

Concerning the 1955 Pogrom of Greeks of Istanbul, here is
a related article by Sevgül Uludağ below:

http://www.savaskarsitlari.org/arsiv.as ... naID=20778

Here is another one in the Turkish daily, Radikal.

http://www.radikal.com.tr/ek_haber.php? ... berno=6821


Unfortunately, I have to no time to translate them; so the duty befalls on Tim Dayton.

Tim, to work !

And the book:

Greeks of Turkey: The Process of Extinction of a Minority from the era of Nation-State to the era of Globalization,

Adı Türkiye Rumları
Alt Lejant Ulus-Devlet Çağından Küreselleşme Çağına Bir Azınlığın Yok Oluş Süreci
Orjinal Name Les Grecs de Turquie Processus d’extinction d’une minorité de l’âge de l’État-nation à l’âge de la mondialisation (1923-2001)
EAN 9789750505140
ISBN 9789750505140
Yayın No İletişim 1248 (İletişim Publishing)
Dizi Tarih 44
440 Pages / 23,50 YTL (Price)
Edition 2.Baskı Aralık 2007, İstanbul


And another one,

Last Exiled of Istanbul: The deportation of Greeks in 1964.
(İstanbul'un Son Sürgünleri / 1964'te Rumların Sınırdışı Edilmesi)
Date : 1994
Page : 238
isbn : 9754704414
Authors
Hülya Demir - Rıdvan Akar
Publisher İletişim Yayınlar

What happened to the Greeks of Istanbul is a very tragic chapter in the recent history of Turkey. The Greeks of Istanbul were indeed the finest people-true law abiders- whealty bu also very well educated people-skilled merchants and craftsmen. I would rate them higher than mainland greeks well above the GCs.. I , for sure, miss them very much..

[Oracle]

Just read the article, Zan. It offers no "proof" whatosever for the claim that Ergenekon have taken over the government of Turkey.

The organisation named Ergenekon was planning to stage a coup in 2009 to overthrow the democratically elected government. They have been thwarted and the key members of this organisation are in jail awaiting trial.

Tim I already explained there are many articles all providing snippets and results; and then it is up to individuals to gather the data and form their conclusions. I provided enough to justify my point that there is more going on in the background than meets the eye,and all unfolding over time. But I am not going to download en masse in one day regarding Ergenekon

Anyway, one more regarding the controlling mechanisms of the Turkish government ... (although it is wasted on you.... )

Turkey's controversial Ergenekon suspects to stand trial in October

Eighty-six people, accused of creating an armed terrorist group to toople government by force, will go on trial on October 20. Twenty people, detained in the seventh wave of Ergenekon operation, were released Saturday by a court in the southern province of Turkey. (UPDATED)

A Turkish court agreed on Friday to hear the controversial Ergenekon case, accepting the 2455-page indictment.

The first hearing of the case will be held on October 20 at a prison complex in Silivri town of Istanbul because of the large number of defendants.

The indictment said the investigation led the officials to a terrorist organization named "Ergenekon", which has not been the subject of any criminal case previously and which has different objectives and activities when compared to other terrorist organizations.

"It has been determined that the nearest goal of the organization is to carry out activities that will cause governmental weakness in the country and to create a chaotic atmosphere that will spoil the public order, moreover, as a final goal, the organization aims to make people approve an unlawful attempt to be carried out against the government in such a chaotic atmosphere and to take over the government through an unlawful intervention," the indictment said.

Retired Col. Veli Kucuk; Ilhan Selcuk, Cumhuriyet daily columnist; Dogu Perincek, Workers’ Party (IP) leader; Ret. Capt. Muzaffer Tekin, Kemal Alemdaroglu, former Istanbul University rector; Retired Col. Mehmet Fikri Karadag and Sevgi Erenerol, the spokeswoman for the Turkish Orthodox Patriarchate; are accused of forming and managing the so-called "Ergenekon" organization.

Prosecutors accuse so-called "Ergenekon" gang of at least two violent acts initially blamed on Islamists -- the 2006 bombing of a secularist newspaper and an armed attack on a top court the same year in which a senior judge was killed.

The group is also accused of planning to assassinate some prominent Turks in the past few years, including the Prime Minister Tayyip Erdogan, army chief Gen. Yasar Buyukanit, 2006 Nobel literature laureate Orhan Pamuk, pro-government journalist Fehmi Koru and some pro-Kurdish Democratic Society Party (DTP) officials.

The indictment added the gang is not linked to the Turkish armed forces and National Intelligence Agency (MIT).

The long waited indictment was submitted only two weeks ago, although the Ergenekon case started 13 months ago with the discovery of grenades in a house in Istanbul’s Umraniye district.

The lack of the indictment in the operation, and the detainment of anti-AKP politicians, journalists and intellectuals without any legal charge raised eyebrows in Turkey, as many questioned whether the operation is being used to suppress opponents of the ruling party.

ADDITIONAL INDICTMENT AWAITED

Apart from the 86 already indicted, about 20 other people, including two retired four-star generals, a popular journalist and a prominent businessman, are awaiting charges, some of them in prison.

An additional indictment would be prepared for those detained in the sixth wave of the operation in July 1, including Kemalist Thought Association Chairman Retired Gen. Sener Eruygur, Retired Gen. Hursit Tolon and Ankara Chamber of Commerce (ATO).

The film director Halis Yavuz Isiklar, who had been also taken into custody in the same wave, was released late on Friday by the Istanbul court.

Turkish public is divided over the issue, even some question whether such organization exists or it is just a cover to suppress the opposition.

The extent of the operation had widened since the closure case against the AKP filed in March. Although the closure case and the Ergenekon case are separate legal processes, Erdogan had linked the two cases saying the closure case against the AKP was filed due to the government’s determination in the Ergenekon case.

[CopperLine]

the controlling mechanisms of the Turkish governement

Yes, Oracle, and the whole point of the Ergenekon conspiracy was to undermine or overthrow the 'control' of the Turkish government. So Ergenekon is not evidence of the controlling mechanisms of the Turkish government but exactly the opposite.

[Tim Drayton]

Just read the article, Zan. It offers no "proof" whatosever for the claim that Ergenekon have taken over the government of Turkey.

The organisation named Ergenekon was planning to stage a coup in 2009 to overthrow the democratically elected government. They have been thwarted and the key members of this organisation are in jail awaiting trial.

Tim I already explained there are many articles all providing snippets and results; and then it is up to individuals to gather the data and form their conclusions. I provided enough to justify my point that there is more going on in the background than meets the eye,and all unfolding over time. But I am not going to download en masse in one day regarding Ergenekon

Anyway, one more regarding the controlling mechanisms of the Turkish governement ... (althouthg it is wasted on you.... )

Turkey's controversial Ergenekon suspects to stand trial in October

Eighty-six people, accused of creating an armed terrorist group to toople government by force, will go on trial on October 20. Twenty people, detained in the seventh wave of Ergenekon operation, were released Saturday by a court in the southern province of Turkey. (UPDATED)

A Turkish court agreed on Friday to hear the controversial Ergenekon case, accepting the 2455-page indictment.

The first hearing of the case will be held on October 20 at a prison complex in Silivri town of Istanbul because of the large number of defendants.

The indictment said the investigation led the officials to a terrorist organization named "Ergenekon", which has not been the subject of any criminal case previously and which has different objectives and activities when compared to other terrorist organizations.

"It has been determined that the nearest goal of the organization is to carry out activities that will cause governmental weakness in the country and to create a chaotic atmosphere that will spoil the public order, moreover, as a final goal, the organization aims to make people approve an unlawful attempt to be carried out against the government in such a chaotic atmosphere and to [size=24]take over the government through an unlawful intervention," the indictment said.[/size]

Retired Col. Veli Kucuk; Ilhan Selcuk, Cumhuriyet daily columnist; Dogu Perincek, Workers’ Party (IP) leader; Ret. Capt. Muzaffer Tekin, Kemal Alemdaroglu, former Istanbul University rector; Retired Col. Mehmet Fikri Karadag and Sevgi Erenerol, the spokeswoman for the Turkish Orthodox Patriarchate; are accused of forming and managing the so-called "Ergenekon" organization.

Prosecutors accuse so-called "Ergenekon" gang of at least two violent acts initially blamed on Islamists -- the 2006 bombing of a secularist newspaper and an armed attack on a top court the same year in which a senior judge was killed.

The group is also accused of planning to assassinate some prominent Turks in the past few years, including the Prime Minister Tayyip Erdogan, army chief Gen. Yasar Buyukanit, 2006 Nobel literature laureate Orhan Pamuk, pro-government journalist Fehmi Koru and some pro-Kurdish Democratic Society Party (DTP) officials.

The indictment added the gang is not linked to the Turkish armed forces and National Intelligence Agency (MIT).

The long waited indictment was submitted only two weeks ago, although the Ergenekon case started 13 months ago with the discovery of grenades in a house in Istanbul’s Umraniye district.

The lack of the indictment in the operation, and the detainment of anti-AKP politicians, journalists and intellectuals without any legal charge raised eyebrows in Turkey, as many questioned whether the operation is being used to suppress opponents of the ruling party.

ADDITIONAL INDICTMENT AWAITED

Apart from the 86 already indicted, about 20 other people, including two retired four-star generals, a popular journalist and a prominent businessman, are awaiting charges, some of them in prison.

An additional indictment would be prepared for those detained in the sixth wave of the operation in July 1, including Kemalist Thought Association Chairman Retired Gen. Sener Eruygur, Retired Gen. Hursit Tolon and Ankara Chamber of Commerce (ATO).

The film director Halis Yavuz Isiklar, who had been also taken into custody in the same wave, was released late on Friday by the Istanbul court.

Turkish public is divided over the issue, even some question whether such organization exists or it is just a cover to suppress the opposition.

The extent of the operation had widened since the closure case against the AKP filed in March. Although the closure case and the Ergenekon case are separate legal processes, Erdogan had linked the two cases saying the closure case against the AKP was filed due to the government’s determination in the Ergenekon case.

This was the goal - read the article carefully. The goal was not achieved - that is why its architects are in jail facing charges running to thousands of pages.

[Nikitas]

Pogrom is a sudden expulsion. There were others which were longer lasting, silent, but far worse. The treatment of the people of the islands Imvros and Tenedos is much worse. If you add them all together they make a picture of modern Turkey and its psychotic fear of identity loss- Istanbul, Smyrni, Imvros, Tenedos, Cyprus, the Black Sea areas. And these people have the nerve to complain about the treatment of the Turks of northern Greece who are INCREASING in numbers.

[Oracle]

... This was the goal - read the article carefully. The goal was not achieved - that is why its architects are in jail facing charges running to thousands of pages.

No smoke without fire .... you can wait till 20th October ... but slowly (like the formulation of the Theory of Evolution) we unearth more and more evidence

( .... yes there may be lines we follow that are dead ends, mass extinctions etc)

[Nikitas]

Cem,

If you miss the Greeks of Istanbul why dont you restore their civil rights and property and invite them back? What is the fear from a few thousand people?

[denizaksulu]

i think all goverments tell lies and cover up things which make them unpopular. i can see where the uk goverment was coming from by not letting greece rule cyprus independently. as this would not be in the interest of all cypriots. cyprus should be run by cypriots and nobody else. turkey and greece have a long history of issues with each other. hopefully turkey has learnt some lessons from the past not just with cyprus but other countries like armenia and bulgaria. both turkey and britian, did what they did in cyprus for reasons which we will probably never know. lets hope that the future for cyprus will be better than its past.

Britain not allowing Greece to have a say over Cyprus was less about honour and altruism and more to do with their own geopolitical gains.

Besides it was going against what the majority of Cypriots would have wanted, and that makes it no less than a tyrant and dictator.

It's not even that Britain wanted to show "fairness" to the TCs but that they used them us pawns in their end-game!

For once , Britain foresaw the injustices waiting for the Turks / Moslems of Cyprus had 'self-determination' occured. The results of the loss of the Moslem inhabitants of the Aegean islands was obvious to the Europeans.

[CopperLine]

Nikitas,
There is an obvious answer to your question to Cem regarding the restoration of civil rights to the Greeks of Istanbul : namely that Cem, nor most of us who think that the expulsion was a shameful and indefensible act, are not in positions of power to make such amends.

I think that those of us, wherever we are in the world, who share a similar political criticism should provide each other with solidarity and not allow ourselves to be divided by nationalist fallacies.