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Laying to rest Cyprus's ghosts

How can we solve it? (keep it civilized)

Postby Oracle » Sun Sep 07, 2008 9:57 pm

zan wrote:
Piratis wrote:
zan wrote:
Piratis wrote:This is the very first inter-communal conflict Zan. This is said clearly in the video as well. What happened before that was Greek Cypriots VS British Colonialists. There was no inter-communal conflict until you attacked us.


Bullshit again Piratis....But please keep going so more people can see where you are coming from...I hope Tpap is reading this and sees the damage you are doing to his ideals..... :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:


Zan, I give you facts, which include a video made not by us, but by your British friends. And all you can say in return is "bullshit"?

You can't even justify why it is "bullshit". You say it is "bullshit" just because you don't like it.

All the posts you make are like this. Either you copy paste articles or you just call whatever you don't like as "bullshit". You are not even able to construct an argument, let alone to provide any facts that support it.



In 1878 Sir Garnet Wolseley was greeted by Church leaders who appealed for British assistance in achieving ENOSIS......Where is the fight for independence in that dear boy Even then your schools where teaching the Megali idea to Cypriots.....


Zan ... I learnt about the Megali Idea in a British school which romanticised Byron and the evil that is the Turk ... a negative to idealism, maturation, culture and freedom.

.... Don't let your son do GCSE History ... or he might learn something about the Ottoman-Turks you would rather he did not know ... :lol:
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Postby Nikitas » Sun Sep 07, 2008 10:08 pm

Megali Idea was expansion into areas which were not all inhabited by Greeks historically. Enosis was a local demand. You are confusing two different ideas and ideals.
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Postby Nikitas » Sun Sep 07, 2008 10:10 pm

Still cannot see how resisting Enosis would excuse the kind of attacks we suffered in Nicosia. The Turkish Cypriot leadership was so unimaginative and monolithic that it could not figure out any other way to oppose Enosis than ganging up on civilians under curfew? After it set off bombs in its own press office to stir up hatred and mob fury?

This is nonsense.
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Postby zan » Sun Sep 07, 2008 10:13 pm

Nikitas wrote:Still cannot see how resisting Enosis would excuse the kind of attacks we suffered in Nicosia. The Turkish Cypriot leadership was so unimaginative and monolithic that it could not figure out any other way to oppose Enosis than ganging up on civilians under curfew? After it set off bombs in its own press office to stir up hatred and mob fury?

This is nonsense.


We were always under the threat from attack since the Megali idea days Nikitas the rest of your explanation is just childish.....
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Postby Oracle » Sun Sep 07, 2008 10:23 pm

zan wrote:
Nikitas wrote:Still cannot see how resisting Enosis would excuse the kind of attacks we suffered in Nicosia. The Turkish Cypriot leadership was so unimaginative and monolithic that it could not figure out any other way to oppose Enosis than ganging up on civilians under curfew? After it set off bombs in its own press office to stir up hatred and mob fury?

This is nonsense.


We were always under the threat from attack since the Megali idea days Nikitas the rest of your explanation is just childish.....


Zan ... how and when did the Megali idea fit into Cyprus' attempts for self-determination?

Admit it .. you were unaware of the Megali Idea until doing history in a British school ... you did go to school didn't you Zan? :?
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Postby zan » Sun Sep 07, 2008 10:30 pm

Oracle wrote:
zan wrote:
Nikitas wrote:Still cannot see how resisting Enosis would excuse the kind of attacks we suffered in Nicosia. The Turkish Cypriot leadership was so unimaginative and monolithic that it could not figure out any other way to oppose Enosis than ganging up on civilians under curfew? After it set off bombs in its own press office to stir up hatred and mob fury?

This is nonsense.


We were always under the threat from attack since the Megali idea days Nikitas the rest of your explanation is just childish.....


Zan ... how and when did the Megali idea fit into Cyprus' attempts for self-determination?

Admit it .. you were unaware of the Megali Idea until doing history in a British school ... you did go to school didn't you Zan? :?


No never went to school but still I can understand what is going on and you can't...Go figure... 8) 8) 8)


When the Brits arrived Greek nationalism had already begun in education. Persianis asserts that in the decades folowing 1821 the Greek schools "Cultivated the GREAT IDEA assiduously"......
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Postby zan » Sun Sep 07, 2008 10:34 pm

Origins of the Megale Idea

Greek nationalism has the "Megale Idea," the counterpart of Serbia's "Nacertanije." Literally translated as the "great idea" or "grand idea," the Megale Idea implies the goal of reestablishing a Greek state as a homeland for all the Greeks of the Mediterranean and Balkan world. Such a Greece would be territorially larger than the Greek state of today, but would be smaller than the Greek world of classical times, which extended west to the coast of Sicily, northeast into the Black Sea, and south to Egypt. Alexander the Great -- a figure of classical Greek history and legend exploited by competing modern-day politicians -- spread the influence of Hellenism even wider, into Africa and Asia. The Eastern half of the Roman Empire became solidly Greek as Byzantium, and sustained Greek culture in the Balkans and Asia Minor.

One of the unsettled aspects of the Megale Idea and the goals of Greek nationalism has been uncertainty about what is properly considered Greek, and why. In the nineteenth century, religious affiliation with the Greek Orthodox church was often confused with ethnic affiliation: the Bulgarians, for example, worked for many years to secure a separate Bulgarian Exarchate Church for this reason. Extreme Greek territorial claims resulted when the geography of classical Greece was applied to modern maps. The result has been conflict with Albania over Epirus, with Serbia and Bulgaria over Macedonia, and with Turkey over Istanbul (Constantinople), the western coast of Anatolia and islands from the Aegean to Cyprus.

While the fall of Constantinople in 1453 put an end to Greek political power in the Balkans, the Ottoman millet system ensured that Greek influence would remain strong through the agency of the Orthodox Church. As indicated in Lecture 6, the power of the Patriarch and his hierarchy opened important doors for Greeks, and this helped to keep alive visions of a revived Greek state among the Greeks of the Ottoman empire.

Intellectual currents outside the Ottoman Empire also contributed to a consciousness of things Greek. Some educated Greeks fled to Italy after the fall of Constantinople: their writings promoted interest in antiquity during the Renaissance. Western European interest in ancient Greece led to Phil-Hellenism. The British ruling class, in particular, gained an interest in Greece from their education in the classics, and this led to British support for the Greek revolution in the 1820s.

Rhigas Pheraios published a manifesto in 1797, one year before his arrest and execution for anti-Turkish plotting. His work offers insight into Greek thought about a revived Greece, on the eve of the modern revolutionary era. Rhigas envisaged a large country occupying both the Balkans and Anatolia, sheltering all the ethnic groups found there but ruled according to Greek ideas. Rhigas was advanced enough in his thinking to abandon religion as a criterion for national identity but he was not farsighted enough to see the ways in which modern ethnic nationalism, with its emphasis on shared language and culture, would make such an idea impossible. He influenced the planners of the Revolution of 1821: we can see echoes of his thinking in the plans for a three-fold uprising, to take place in Istanbul and the Romanian provinces, as well as in the Greek Peloponessus. And we have seen how this idea broke down in the face of incipient Romanian nationalism, so that the uprising in Romania failed because Romanians resented their Greek Phanariot hospodars.
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Postby Oracle » Sun Sep 07, 2008 10:43 pm

Zan ... If the Megali Idea is about Greeks wanting to re-gain Constantinople and what used to be rightfully theirs; and Pan-Turkism / Expansionism is about acquiring lands that belong to others and Turkifying them ... which one would be viewed as most acceptable by today's logic?
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Postby zan » Sun Sep 07, 2008 10:47 pm

Oracle wrote:Zan ... If the Megali Idea is about Greeks wanting to re-gain Constantinople and what used to be rightfully theirs; and Pan-Turkism / Expansionism is about acquiring lands that belong to others and Turkifying them ... which one would be viewed as most acceptable by today's logic?


Niether, but whose were the lands before the Greeks got them and when.....You can't play with time like that and hope to get away with it!!!! On that basis I think we should do a search for as far back as we can go and give the world back to...???????????? :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: Turkey has now got its borders and so has Greece.........So has the TRNC...Only a fair negotiated unification can go on from this day. I would have thought that you would have got that by now and stopped playing your silly little games.....
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Postby Oracle » Sun Sep 07, 2008 10:49 pm

Dream on Zan .... :lol:
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