Cyprus-Forum.com

[Magnus]

Magnus,
It was going well until you wrote

Present the evidence and let people decide if it was an intervention, a peace operation or an invasion.

That sounds like the strength or otherwise of facts is judged by the opinion people have of the evidence. If you let the people decide on what counts as evidence then the veracity of facts might be dependent on a popularity contest.

People will form opinions on History, this is natural, especially when people that are personally affected. It's far easier for the observer to be objective if it's not 'his problem' but those that are affected will seek to justify their opinions. This forum is a good enough example. Because of this, the only fair thing to do is provide evidence for both arguments as people will make up their minds one way or another.

[zan]

Magnus,
It was going well until you wrote

Present the evidence and let people decide if it was an intervention, a peace operation or an invasion.

That sounds like the strength or otherwise of facts is judged by the opinion people have of the evidence. If you let the people decide on what counts as evidence then the veracity of facts might be dependent on a popularity contest.

People will form opinions on History, this is natural, especially when people that are personally affected. It's far easier for the observer to be objective if it's not 'his problem' but those that are affected will seek to justify their opinions. This forum is a good enough example. Because of this, the only fair thing to do is provide evidence for both arguments as people will make up their minds one way or another.

If both sides have a fair crack of the whip!!!!

If Greece and the "RoC" are able to sway the decisions by political means, as they have done, then a redress is needed. Much more painful to those that have been brainwashed in the South than those that are used to it in the North...

[Magnus]

Magnus,
It was going well until you wrote

Present the evidence and let people decide if it was an intervention, a peace operation or an invasion.

That sounds like the strength or otherwise of facts is judged by the opinion people have of the evidence. If you let the people decide on what counts as evidence then the veracity of facts might be dependent on a popularity contest.

People will form opinions on History, this is natural, especially when people that are personally affected. It's far easier for the observer to be objective if it's not 'his problem' but those that are affected will seek to justify their opinions. This forum is a good enough example. Because of this, the only fair thing to do is provide evidence for both arguments as people will make up their minds one way or another.

If both sides have a fair crack of the whip!!!!

If Greece and the "RoC" are able to sway the decisions by political means, as they have done, then a redress is needed. Much more painful to those that have been brainwashed in the South than those that are used to it in the North...

That's a fair point and it led me to an interesting question. As far as I know, there is no restriction on the circulation of historical literature (and I mean proper historical study, not propaganda) in the RoC so anybody wanting to find out about the TC or Turkish evidence can get a book and read it.

Is the same policy in existence in the north? What about Turkey? Can people actually buy and read evidence presented by GCs (or outsiders that support the GC perpspective) or is it deemed 'insulting to Turkishness' etc?

[Medman]

It takes two or three or four to tango in Cyprus's case! People keep going on about the past. As Lord Hannay said if Cyprus is to move forward the blame game has to stop! There is a lot of anger on this forum, but people are allowed to have their say. AKEL was voted in as the democratic government and people are lambasting them to daring change things. The Greeks believe Cyprus is there's, the Turks thinks it there's. Britain sits on the fence and the world can't be assed with it all. Does anyone expect a solution this year? It if blows up again, Talat's days are already numbered.

[zan]

Magnus,
It was going well until you wrote

Present the evidence and let people decide if it was an intervention, a peace operation or an invasion.

That sounds like the strength or otherwise of facts is judged by the opinion people have of the evidence. If you let the people decide on what counts as evidence then the veracity of facts might be dependent on a popularity contest.

People will form opinions on History, this is natural, especially when people that are personally affected. It's far easier for the observer to be objective if it's not 'his problem' but those that are affected will seek to justify their opinions. This forum is a good enough example. Because of this, the only fair thing to do is provide evidence for both arguments as people will make up their minds one way or another.

If both sides have a fair crack of the whip!!!!

If Greece and the "RoC" are able to sway the decisions by political means, as they have done, then a redress is needed. Much more painful to those that have been brainwashed in the South than those that are used to it in the North...

That's a fair point and it led me to an interesting question. As far as I know, there is no restriction on the circulation of historical literature (and I mean proper historical study, not propaganda) in the RoC so anybody wanting to find out about the TC or Turkish evidence can get a book and read it.

Is the same policy in existence in the north? What about Turkey? Can people actually buy and read evidence presented by GCs (or outsiders that support the GC perpspective) or is it deemed 'insulting to Turkishness' etc?

Two sides of the same coin.......

[CopperLine]

Magnus
Notwithstanding the absurd 'insulting Turkishness' law and notwithstanding court cases taken against publishers and authors on all sorts of nonsense charges, for all practical purposes you can get literature on everything by anyone in Turkey and northern Cyprus. The question is really one of being what's out there to read and study (and not one of prevention).

I know that several on this forum like to paint Turkish Cyprus and Turkey in the racist monochrome of a monolithic, homogenous, ignorant and uneducated people. This is so far from the truth that it is somewhat absurd to have to even have to point this out.

[Bananiot]

Copperline, I do not think they understood your "active verbs" thing. Piratis, in what way did the intercommunal strife started in 1958? Can you enlighten us oir is this also some part of our history that needs to be re written?

[denizaksulu]

I dont think we will be getting anywhere with the blame game. This is only a distraction from the issues at stake. How far back can we go on in the blame game? It is idiotic to blame the events of 1571, when the Ottomans first arrived at Cyprus. Cyprus was a thorn at the side of the Ottoman empire. It was not the Cypriots who were the thorn but the Venetians and their allies, the corsairs which were raiding the Anatolian coasts and bothering moslem shipping. Piratis obviously expected the Ottomans to sit back and do nothing. This is Piratis favorite argument. What a waste of space.

Then you have the Greek War of Independence in 1821 which trigerred off the first sounds of Enosis and support for the Greek cause; that was the beginning of all our problems. Ok, this is an absurd statement, but to keep on the 'blame game ' will not get us anywhere. The blame game is only a tool for use by anti-reunionists.

[zan]

I dont think we will be getting anywhere with the blame game. This is only a distraction from the issues at stake. How far back can we go on in the blame game? It is idiotic to blame the events of 1571, when the Ottomans first arrived at Cyprus. Cyprus was a thorn at the side of the Ottoman empire. It was not the Cypriots who were the thorn but the Venetians and their allies, the corsairs which were raiding the Anatolian coasts and bothering moslem shipping. Piratis obviously expected the Ottomans to sit back and do nothing. This is Piratis favorite argument. What a waste of space.

Then you have the Greek War of Independence in 1821 which trigerred off the first sounds of Enosis and support for the Greek cause; that was the beginning of all our problems. Ok, this is an absurd statement, but to keep on the 'blame game ' will not get us anywhere. The blame game is only a tool for use by anti-reunionists.

Or those that want a fair reunion Deniz.....

[Magnus]

Copperline, I do not think they understood your "active verbs" thing. Piratis, in what way did the intercommunal strife started in 1958? Can you enlighten us oir is this also some part of our history that needs to be re written?

I know exactly what active (and passive) verbs are but I didn't agree with the way the information was presented so I posted it in my own way.