Cyprus-Forum.com

[Cem]

Dear members,

I have found some interesting posts by a greek member of another interesting forum, namely the forum on Armenian Genocide. http://www.armeniangenocide.com.
This forum is maintained and moderated by Armenians with the principal purpose of securing the recognition of A.G by Turkey and turkish people and providing information about the tragic events in 1915 .
Regardless of whether I personally subscribe to their opinion or not, I must praise the adeptness of the moderators in their organization of the forum and their presentation of related documents. They are quite cool at pointing to fallacy of the counter-arguments coming mainly from turkish members, I should say. Moreover, they manage well how to minimize offensive remarks between posters of differing opinions and reducing their number to a bare minimum.
Therefore, it is hardly a pro-turkish site and has many greek members as well who are hardly pro-turkish themselves nor left-wingers nor conscience cowboys of any sort.
Among their posts under various threads, one particularly caught my attention.
This greek poster with the pseudonym Panos26 has made interesting remarks about Greece's involvement in Cyprus.
By following his other posts from the links I provide, anyone can see that he is rather a greek supremacist which he(she) makes clear in one his(her) heated debates about the relative superiority of greek and turkish cultures and how modern he(she) thinks Greece is vis-a-vis Turkey.
So, here is a first post:

http://www.armeniangenocide.com/showthr ... 363&page=5

Posted by Panos26
Mr Georgiou is right on most of the occasion except Cyprus.

While the Turks did actually commit crimes after the 1974 invasion,the Greek side is also responsible for the killing of almost 30.000 Turkish Cypriots between 1955 and 1974.The bloodiest being between 1963-1974.So in no way i am not gonna deny what history has written on Cyprus, because it is our fault also but the Turks have the audacity for 33 years to try and make legal the occupation by trying to lift the embargoes against the pseudo-state of Northern Cyprus.
Besides only Turkey recognizes the pseudo-state Denktas created.
07-17-2007, 09:57 PM

Here is his(her) second one:


http://www.armeniangenocide.com/showthr ... 363&page=7
Posted by Panos26

________________________________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by Strabo
Bloody Hell, Panos! Where did that number come from ?

Try these numbers! From the Turks themselves,
800 deaths here http://www.kibrisliturksehitler.com/sehitler.htm
and 500 missing here www.atcanews.org/archive/missing.pdf

And half of these deaths are happening AT THE SAME TIME the invading Turks are on the island "peace operating" 6000+ Greeks.


First of all i cant read Turkish.Second the Turkish Cypriots are claiming 25.000 to 30.000 dead up to 74.There is absolutely no way i am to believe the Greek propaganda that we did not commit attrocities on Cyprus.The Greek side has been the most vicious on the Island.Sorry to say that.We used our majority and the Greeks had it comming.Even though i hate the division to stand on the Island but we have to admit that Turkey's invasion has helped to establish the peace in Cyprus, prooving that the Turkish Cypriots and Greek Cypriots can not live together in peace...mainly due to the Greek Cypriot's aspirations to be united with Greece back in the 60's-70's.

Plus i dont know what Turkey is claiming.I am saying what the pseudo-state is claiming.

Check what they are claiming

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q18HZVozrgk
________________________________________
Last edited by Panos26 : 07-23-2007 at 02:59 PM.

And the third "sweet" from Panos:

http://www.armeniangenocide.com/showthread.php?t=363&page=8


Panos26
Member

Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 39
________________________________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by Strabo
Lol! They forgot to mention how the Turks unleashed a frenzied slaughter of 20,000 Nicosians AFTER the siege ended. Let that be a lesson to you Panos. Turkish historical narrative is full of OMMISSIONS.

Did they mention in 1954, before any violence, the Greeks asked the UN to allow a referendum in Cyprus ? (You know, like they had in Quebec and Montenegro and other civilised places on Earth)

The Turks said NO to a referendum.

So if something is not decided by votes, what is the alternative ?

But you are ommissing the purpuse of the referendum,which was the union of Cyprus with Greece.

None the less my stand is the same.The Greeks were and are by far those who started and created the problem bsc they used their overwhelming majority.The turks were only a weak minority which we took advantage.So yes,what did the Greeks expect?Turkey to watch?Plus after the invasion we have peace at last...

The Greeks have been true animals against the turks for 20 years before Turkey invaded...No way a level-headed person will believe that an 18% minority managed to harm the overwhelming majority of 82% of Greeks on Cyprus.That is only for kids to believe.We were and are responsible for a mass planned extinction of the Turks on Cyprus that didnt work...________________________________________Last edited by Panos26 :

As I said Panos26, in his other posts, claims that Greece is the most modern country in the region and ultimately superior to Turkey in terms of both economic development and cultural (?) superiority.
Is he a left-winger or a traitor or a turk masquareding as greek, I hardly think so..
In an Armenian website, a biased statement in favor of Turks and coming either from an armenian or a greek is very unlikely.
So ?? Waiting for your comments, buddies.

[miltiades]

He is no doubt a first class idiot !!

[Magnus]

What kind of comments do you want? It's just another dude on another internet forum giving his opinion. He's no more credible or significant than anybody else on the internet.

Who cares if he makes some pro-Turkish or anti-Greek statements? He's not speaking on behalf of anyone, just running his own mouth and he's not the first one to make such comments.

If he cares so much about those 30,000 dead Turks (wherever he got the number from) then maybe he should take himself down to that peace protest and light a candle. When they're done he can get them to teach him the Tsifteteli Tourkiko.

[miltiades]

The world is full of Plonkers , this one takes the biscuit !

[Piratis]

Cem, the only time that 10s of thousands of people were murdered in Cyprus was the time when the Ottoman Turks first invaded our island and slaughtered everybody they found in front of them.

The Turks in Cyprus during the Ottoman rule, or the Turkish Cypriots as they were called after, where never by themselves. They had the millions of Turks behind them, who armed them and who would send reinforcements whenever the Cypriots would try to revolt. If they were just a "poor weak minority" then they wouldn't be able to rule Cyprus and oppress Cypriots for 3+ centuries, would they?

The inter-communal conflict was in fact started by Turkish Cypriots in 1958:



Now you tell me: Would a "weak" 18% minority, without any backing from Turkey/UK go out and attack the 82% majority starting a bloody conflict?

During the inter-communal conflict that TCs started some 100s of people from both sides where killed.

I don't know where this "Panos" came up with the number 30.000 but not even Turkish propagandists would make such ridiculous claims because such claims are the easiest thing to prove as a lie.

Here is a quote from a report of the Council of Europe:

According to the censuses which took place in Cyprus before the factual partition of the island, the Greek Cypriot community amounted to 447,901 (78,2%) in 1960, and to 498,511 (78,9%) in 1973. The Turkish Cypriot community numbered 103,822 (18,1%) people in 1960, and 116 000 (18,4%) in 1973. The total population of Cyprus was 572,707 in 1960 and 631,778 in 1973 (see Appendix 3, Table 1). An average rate of annual growth for both communities between 1960 and 1973 was similar and amounted to 0,8%. In consequence, the ethnic distribution of the population did not change between 1960 and 1974 and the proportion of each community remained stable.

http://assembly.coe.int/Documents/Worki ... OC9799.htm

[eracles]

Cem, how many TCs do you think were murdered by Greek Cypriots?

[Cem]

Cem, the only time that 10s of thousands of people were murdered in Cyprus was the time when the Ottoman Turks first invaded our island and slaughtered everybody they found in front of them.
The Turks in Cyprus during the Ottoman rule, or the Turkish Cypriots as they were called after, where never by themselves. They had the millions of Turks behind them, who armed them and who would send reinforcements whenever the Cypriots would try to revolt. If they were just a "poor weak minority" then they wouldn't be able to rule Cyprus and oppress Cypriots for 3+ centuries, would they?

The inter-communal conflict was in fact started by Turkish Cypriots in 1958:



Now you tell me: Would a "weak" 18% minority, without any backing from Turkey/UK go out and attack the 82% majority starting a bloody conflict?

During the inter-communal conflict that TCs started some 100s of people from both sides where killed.

I don't know where this "Panos" came up with the number 30.000 but not even Turkish propagandists would make such ridiculous claims because such claims are the easiest thing to prove as a lie.

Here is a quote from a report of the Council of Europe:

According to the censuses which took place in Cyprus before the factual partition of the island, the Greek Cypriot community amounted to 447,901 (78,2%) in 1960, and to 498,511 (78,9%) in 1973. The Turkish Cypriot community numbered 103,822 (18,1%) people in 1960, and 116 000 (18,4%) in 1973. The total population of Cyprus was 572,707 in 1960 and 631,778 in 1973 (see Appendix 3, Table 1). An average rate of annual growth for both communities between 1960 and 1973 was similar and amounted to 0,8%. In consequence, the ethnic distribution of the population did not change between 1960 and 1974 and the proportion of each community remained stable.

http://assembly.coe.int/Documents/Worki ... OC9799.htm

First, I did not claim anything regarding the number of causalties,i;e, whether they were 30.000 or less or more.
What I would like to emphasize is whether such an under-advantaged community in terms of demographics could do the same harm to the other community. That was the issue.

And hearing this from a mainlander greek who showed his contempt for turks in his all other posts, I must say, have puzzled me. It is not often I hear similar comments from greeks.
The involvement of Greece in Cy is an undisputable fact..

Regarding Ottoman involvement in Cy:

1) It was 400 yrs ago and has got nothing to do with today's issues. You don't expect me to do a time travel back 400 yrs ago then plead Ottoman army to stop slaughtering Cypriots, do you?. Ottoman empire, just like every empire, was built on bloodshed and it is now defunct, gone.

You keep parroting this "otto" story for a long time which suggests that as Ottomans were our ancestors, we, TCs, are mostly responsible for the CyProb so we should take the blame for what our ancestors had done.
Ottoman emprie was a multi-ethnic entity comprising greeks, serbs, albanians, armenians as well.

How do you know that there were not anybody from these groups who slaughtered the cypriots ? They also served in the ottoman army.

I think if we go back that long into history, the Cyprob would get even more a "mess".

Question:
If the Tcs, as you said, had the backing of millions of turks behind them, then how come:
They could not become more populous than GCs over time ?
I mean, since Ottos were running the island for centuries, they could have brought in more and more of their kind so as to outnumber the locals, the true Cypriots GCs.
There was nothing to prevent them from putting this into action..
.
As for the video, all it shows that a bomb explodes and fighting breaks out between GC and TCs. It does not show the culprit behind the blast..

[Cem]

What kind of comments do you want? It's just another dude on another internet forum giving his opinion. He's no more credible or significant than anybody else on the internet.
Who cares if he makes some pro-Turkish or anti-Greek statements? He's not speaking on behalf of anyone, just running his own mouth and he's not the first one to make such comments.
If he cares so much about those 30,000 dead Turks (wherever he got the number from) then maybe he should take himself down to that peace protest and light a candle. When they're done he can get them to teach him the Tsifteteli Tourkiko.

That is right.. No more or less credible than posters of this forum.
He would go to peace rally ONLY in order to open fire on them...
When he was NOT making this statements out of remorse, but out of pride..

[Magnus]

What kind of comments do you want? It's just another dude on another internet forum giving his opinion. He's no more credible or significant than anybody else on the internet.
Who cares if he makes some pro-Turkish or anti-Greek statements? He's not speaking on behalf of anyone, just running his own mouth and he's not the first one to make such comments.
If he cares so much about those 30,000 dead Turks (wherever he got the number from) then maybe he should take himself down to that peace protest and light a candle. When they're done he can get them to teach him the Tsifteteli Tourkiko.

That is right.. No more or less credible than posters of this forum.
He would go to peace rally ONLY in order to open fire on them...
When he was NOT making this statements out of remorse, but out of pride..

I am sure we agree that it all comes down to credible evidence. It is not our arguments that make us 'valid' or not, it is the evidence they are based on. This 'Panos' character has posted nothing to back up his claims, therefore he is only voicing his opinions.

Some people might agree with him, others don't. Either way, his comments aren't of any special significance, he's just some loudmouth on the internet.

[Piratis]

Cem, the problem of Cyprus is not the crimes that the Turks did against Cypriots 400 years ago. The problem is that they didn't stop committing crimes ever since.

Basically the only time that we were not attacked, oppressed or threatened by the Turks was just 80 years, between 1878 and 1958.

The Latins also oppressed us and committed crimes against us in the past, but we do not have a problem with Italy or with the Latin minority of Cyprus today. Today they are not trying to impose their rule over any part of the island anymore, and they equal Cypriot citizens which respects all others and in return they are respected.

So it is not about what happened in the past, it is about what is happening now.

It is clear that the conflict of 1958 was started by the TCs, watch the video again (made by your British friends, not us). And as it was always obivous the conflict was not between GCs and TCs. It was between Cypriots VS a foreign oppressor (Turkey/UK) and their pawns which they brought to our island. If TCs were just by themselves then do you think they would dare to start a war against GCs who outnumbered them 5 to 1?

Question:
If the Tcs, as you said, had the backing of millions of turks behind them, then how come:
They could not become more populous than GCs over time ?
I mean, since Ottos were running the island for centuries, they could have brought in more and more of their kind so as to outnumber the locals, the true Cypriots GCs.
There was nothing to prevent them from putting this into action..

And how do you think the TC minority was created in Cyprus? If there was no such policy of forcefully Turkifying Cyprus then there would be 0% of Turks in Cyprus today.

They brought many 1000s of people in Cyprus, but bringing them was not that easy since they had to be forced to come. Cyprus back then was not what it is today. People didn't want to come here. Also they tried to make many Cypriots muslims by offering several advantages to being a muslim rather that a christian. But they didn't want to eliminate all Cypriots because then there would be nobody to exploit. Also many Turks left from Cyprus when the Ottoman rule was over, and many Cypriots who were forced to become muslims turned back to Christianity.

Do you seriously doubt that the Turks who were brought to Cyprus had the backing of the rest of the empire and later the backing of Turkey??? Those people were the local administrators (pawns) of the Ottoman empire/ Turkey and they continue to be today. What do you think Talat is?