Cyprus-Forum.com

[T_C]

...certainly, T_C it goes both ways. the history is not one of many pleasentries, and yet as the island dwellers we had managed to socialise ourselves to become Great Cooperators.

this is the truth, it goes beyond "Turkish" or "Greek" it is the survival of an ethic which deserves our esteem, and it survived millenia before the Modern Age.

...and so the reaction is 'natural', as such i wish we would govern ourselves accordingly, with an appropriation to the possibilities with our thoughts, toward the betterment of the Human Condition, as opposed to that which is the Impasse.

I wasn't even doubting that RW. We have reason not to trust the GC government, as do the GCs not to trust us or Turkey. BUT, these GCs want to portray that they have good enough reasons not to trust ANYONE but somehow no one can ever seem to have a good enough a reason not to trust them.

[Viewpoint]

In another thread I said the GC's should choose the high road and allow the TC's to cross. The GC's did and scored +1 in the eyes of the world.

Now the TC's (or the Turkish occupying forces I guess since they are effectively holding the TC's hostage as well as 37% of the island) refuse to return the favour. This will render more negative points than the GC's scored positive ones. This is just further proof to the rest of the world who the real aggressor is. It's undeniable proof that the Turks are the unreasonable ones.

I feel very sorry for the true TC's who are unable to see that they are victims of Turkey. And I'm even more sorry for those who know the shit they're stuck in but are too afraid to do or even say something about it. Ordinary people are victims of Turkish military and an elite of TC politicians who sold their soul, 37% of Cyprus and their countrymen to the invader.

It's tempting to close the crossings, I can appreciate that... this was also my first reaction when reading these news. But I'm not so sure anything good will come from closing them. It's a gamble. It could mean that the thousands that cross everyday for work will take up residence in the south rightfully as humanist said. But it could also backfire and alienate the TC's even more (those crossing every day for work in particular) which would inevitably lead to additional support for permanent partition and the demands for international recognition of the 'TRNC'.

Those crossing for work on a daily basis are obviously comfortable enough to be working for and with GC's. The step from that to actually live side by side with GC's should be a rather small step. But closing the crossings could very well cause these people to have a knee jerk reaction themselves and then take a huge leap backwards. Instead of running for the RoC and the work there they could just as well end up with resentment for the government that 'took away their livelihood'. Like I said, it's a gamble... with high stakes.

Do the GC's really want to risk losing their 'TC allies'? Remember, these are people who actually know, by personal experience, that the GC's aren't murderous genocidal monsters who wish to eradicate TC's from Cypriot soil once and for all. They're a valuable resource in finding and supporting a fair solution and the key to making things work once Cyprus is reunited. These TC's are the ones that will help those that still fear the GC's understand that they're all Cypriots and religion and ancestry are superficial things at the end of the day if you want to make a country successful and prosperous.

I say, keep a steady course on the high road. Turkey has shown its true face once again. The house of cards will one day collapse. The UN are watching, so is the EU. I bet soon enough the US will harden its stance towards Turkey as well. I think it's important to show the world, and the key players, that the RoC is playing fair. Then everybody, including the blind, will see that the 'TRNC' is nothing but a Turkish puppet show and the Turks will be unveiled as the unreasonable invaders they certainly are after 34 years of holding 37% of Cyprus hostage.

You all know more and more TC's are beginning to share this view somewhat. They're starting to realise that they're held hostage by Turkish military. They woke up one day and saw that they were a minority among mainland Turks. They see how those in charge are trying to wash the TC Cypriotness away and transform everybody into obedient Turks loyal to nobody but the Turkish 'deep state'. This 'awakening of the oppressed' is very important, I'd say crucial, to the final solution of the Cyprus problem... not to mention the development of a reunited Cyprus. When GC's and TC's alike think of themselves as Cypriots there will be no mainland Turks left on the island!

You conveniently forget that you were trying to do the same thing but failed, the big difference is that we are Turkish in origin and not Greek.

[humanist]

T-C

No humanist evading is what you and Oracle were doing!

Sorry for the mixup by the way...but what you don't understand is that I UNDERSTAND your suffering, I DO NOT hate the ordinary GCs. It was the GC government that did this to my family and it's them I do not trust.

Ofcourse me not trusting the GC government doesn't do you or your cause any favours so I'm not suprised at the way you react. Thats so selfish though and shows exactly how much you "care" about TCs.

This is why you probably think that I hate GCs, but when GCs (including you) try and silence our suffering because it makes you look bad then it's crystal clear where we stand with GCs like yourselves.

You have EVERY RIGHT to talk about your familys suffering at the hands of the Turks or TCs but SO DO I about my family suffering at the hands of the GC government.

T-C I am not sure what Oracle and I were evading?

The thread is about closing all crossing points. I agreed with kafenes about closing them because it appears to me that GC's and especially Christofias is giving in and the TC tealdership appears to take take and not make any allowance. Regadrless of the fact the we all know Talat has no say and the generals are running the show.

Secondly you have no right to question my ability to care for TC's. I want TCs to share equal standing in the Cypriots society and benefit from all that Cyprus has to offer firstly as an independent nation and secondly as a EU member State.

No I am not going to say yes you have suffered and therefore you can have my home in exchange, not allow me or thousand sof others to settle where we want too within our country. That is not caring at all that is just allowing you to live in your victimhood.


Taking things back to EOKA will only bring you excactly what we had gone through in the past few posts.

EOKA on our part was just as bad as Taksim on our part. With the exception that EOKA was a Cypriot struggle against British colonisation. Taksim as stated in Wikepedia is a group of TC's supporting partition of Cyprus.

Remember we are not the ones currently holding a country hostage, we are not the ones who have stopped people from crossing that is your doing.

[humanist]

T_C I am sorry mate I got all emotional and I lost my cool. Mate the point I was trying to make and failed miserably was that both communities suffered going back to history we cannot change the future.

I realised that at each defining moment of Cypriot history the two communities seem to head lock and as such both loose, persons and dignity. I think if we are to move forward we have to concentrate on building a beteer Cyprus, not Turkish and most certinly NOT Greek.

And that is why I asked many times for a TC to explain to me what political equality means and I have yet to get a clear response.

[Piratis]

No humanist evading is what you and Oracle were doing!

Sorry for the mixup by the way...but what you don't understand is that I UNDERSTAND your suffering, I DO NOT hate the ordinary GCs. It was the GC government that did this to my family and it's them I do not trust.

Ofcourse me not trusting the GC government doesn't do you or your cause any favours so I'm not suprised at the way you react. Thats so selfish though and shows exactly how much you "care" about TCs.

This is why you probably think that I hate GCs, but when GCs (including you) try and silence our suffering because it makes you look bad then it's crystal clear where we stand with GCs like yourselves.

You have EVERY RIGHT to talk about your familys suffering at the hands of the Turks or TCs but SO DO I about my family suffering at the hands of the GC government.

So what is the solution T_C? You don't trust the GCs and then what?

This is Cyprus, and in Cyprus you have to learn to live with lots of Greek Cypriots around you.

Some TCs think that because they don't trust the GCs there is the option to just ethnically cleanse GCs from the homelands they existed for 1000s of years and just live separate from them.

If that is a "solution", then there is another similar solution that solves the problem in the same way: All the TCs are removed from Cyprus. This way TCs don't have to live along with the GCs that they do not trust, and we will even have several kilometers of sea separating us, making you even more secure.

If we have to resolve to methods of ethnic cleansing as a "solution" then it makes more sense to remove the TCs who are fewer and who have a much shorter history in Cyprus, and who after all are the ones who don't want to live along with the rest of Cypriots.

So the question to you is: Would you sacrifice your homeland and your human rights for the sake of such a solution and such peace?

If you wouldn't, then how can you expect the GCs to do so?

So such kind of "solution" and such sort of "peace" are actually only theoretical since no side will accept such terms against them.

If we want a permanent solution and a permanent peace then you and everybody has to accept that Cyprus belongs to all Cypriots and that the solution should not be based on practices of ethnic cleansing and separation, but on universal principles such as democracy and human rights.

Within these principles there are a lot of things that can be done to offer safeguards and a sense of security to the TCs. But the TCs should stop using their mistrust as an excuse for unfair gains and for pushing their dream for partition.

If they accept that they have nothing to gain from mistrust this will also help them to start trusting GCs more. Mistrust against GCs is not only due to GCs actions, but also to the TCs actions, starting with TMT in the late 50s and continuing with the Turkish administration after 1974. The TMT and Turkey want mistrust and hate between the two communities because this is what served (and serves today) their partition aim.

[T_C]

T_C I am sorry mate I got all emotional and I lost my cool. Mate the point I was trying to make and failed miserably was that both communities suffered going back to history we cannot change the future.

I realised that at each defining moment of Cypriot history the two communities seem to head lock and as such both loose, persons and dignity. I think if we are to move forward we have to concentrate on building a beteer Cyprus, not Turkish and most certinly NOT Greek.

And that is why I asked many times for a TC to explain to me what political equality means and I have yet to get a clear response.

It's ok humanist, I do it too most of the time.

I agree with your post above though. I just don't know how they're going to find a solution thats going to make everyone happy?

Specially since they've left so many open wounds to fester for all these years and seeing that theres not 1 "official" Cyprus story that we can trust, we end up taking sides and feeling "wronged" by the other all the time.

I don't want land or anything from the GCs, I just want the GC government to apologise for what they did and vice versa. By doing so I would feel more confident that history wouldn't repeat itself and that lessons were learned.

Unfortunately the stance most of us take make us distrust eachother even more.

[humanist]

mate I know that neither you, iceman or that other nice chap (forgot his name ) don't want land from GC's and most of us recognise that you need houses to live in for the time being. As far as apologies well we are talikng about governements here they wont. What would be nice is before the official openning of discussions, that both Talat and Christofias give you the apology you are asking for.

[Kikapu]

T_C I am sorry mate I got all emotional and I lost my cool. Mate the point I was trying to make and failed miserably was that both communities suffered going back to history we cannot change the future.

I realised that at each defining moment of Cypriot history the two communities seem to head lock and as such both loose, persons and dignity. I think if we are to move forward we have to concentrate on building a beteer Cyprus, not Turkish and most certinly NOT Greek.

And that is why I asked many times for a TC to explain to me what political equality means and I have yet to get a clear response.

It's ok humanist, I do it too most of the time.

I agree with your post above though. I just don't know how they're going to find a solution thats going to make everyone happy?

Specially since they've left so many open wounds to fester for all these years and seeing that theres not 1 "official" Cyprus story that we can trust, we end up taking sides and feeling "wronged" by the other all the time.

I don't want land or anything from the GCs, I just want the GC government to apologise for what they did and vice versa. By doing so I would feel more confident that history wouldn't repeat itself and that lessons were learned.

Unfortunately the stance most of us take make us distrust eachother even more.

I just want the GC government to apologise for what they did

T_C,

Back in March when Christofias and Talat met for the first time right after the election to discuss a settlement, Christofias acknowledged that wrongs were done to the TC's. To date, I have not heard Talat saying the same thing about wrongs done to the GC's by the TC's. Therefore, you are not accurate with your above statement. Perhaps you did not know what Christofias did. Naturally, do not expect anymore apologies to come from him, until Talat does the same in return. It is only fair, don't you think.??

[repulsewarrior]

please read my Manifesto and the other two threads...,

http://www.cyprus-forum.com/viewtopic.php?t=19022

http://www.cyprus-forum.com/viewtopic.php?t=16772

http://www.cyprus-forum.com/viewtopic.php?t=15874

[bilako22]

T_C

Yeah I'm ok thanks

We lasted for 30+ years so I don't know what would be so different if they closed them again.
We've gotten used to missing out on a lot of things and we've been through a lot worse than having some crossings being closed.

And we have been punished, by the GCs and Turkey OVER and OVER and OVER again.

No TC would trust the word of the GC government, they'd have to be stupid. A bit like you trusting Turkey actually...

I cannot believe that after the thousands of people who roam in the RoC from the occupied areas each and evry day you have come u with this valueless setence T-C. Firstly GC's are not punishing you, you are all punishing yourselves. We are the legal nation, we are under occupation from Turkey we sought support from the international arena and they have honoured humanitarian practice. How are we excactly punishing your people mate. Give a good reason and then I'll apologise.

If you are referring to the embargoes it ireallty is very simple, you stole my home under gun point, I can and have imposed economic embargo.

The GC governemnt gives opportunities to TC's who want to take the and they have, if they don't want to trust is simply their issue. They choose not trust, if they can trust RoC employers and the wealth it gives them, who runs the country.


It is not a bit like not us not trusting Turkey we have very good reasons not to trust Turkey she entered illegally killed and pilalaged, kicked 200,000 people out of their homes and that is the reason we do not trust Turkey.

Funny how you forget thats exactly what eoka was doing to us, with the blessings of the GC government...

Pathetic reasoning T_C ... EOKA's prime aim was to remove the British and well you know it.

Instead of helping this course ... the TCs fought against it.

You have no one to blame but yourselves if you now feel let down by EVERYONE ... both by GCs and Turks.

How can that be T_C ? ...... that GCs and Turkey jointly colluded to frame the TCs ... pull the other one ..... you are one selfish paranoid, group of people ...

Useless ....

Bullshit , EOKA was fighting to achieve ENOSIS with its motherland.