Cyprus-Forum.com

[humanist]

VP

As I have said many times although I do not believe we will ever agree a solution because the chasm is just to far to bridge Im still willing to be proven wrong but time and time again I am proven 100% right. Neither side has the vision or the desire to compromise so no solution will be found, feel free to prove me wrong if you can, even you show the sign that we have drifted further and further apart that you willing to agree partition as long as we accept a reduction in land.

VP you are one of those intransigent Turks who is not willing to compromise on anything. I have repeatedly asked you name what political equality you require for unification and you refuse to state it clearly so that someone as dumb as I am can get. I have repeatedly asked you to nalke the guarantees you want to make it safe for you to walk the streets of a unified Cyprus and you outrightly evade doing so.

I be;ieve you are doing this because you have no patritisam to your Island and you are wanting partition so that you can sacrifice your peple to the Turks and in doing so give ENOSIS to Turkey.

I think many will agree on a 18:82 partition but then where does that leave those patriotic cypriots who (a) have always lived in the the occupied area ie Morphou people who want to access EU freedoms by being part of the RoC and what happens to the other portion of TRUE Cypriots who live and have always lived in the free areas,

My position is still the same keep the land mass as is for each county, green zone becomes a peace park some natural bushald with walk ways and bycicle tracks, political equality for both counties, with a solid Federal governement which will provide the people of Cyprus one identity as agreed by the leaders and one soverignthy with both Turkey and Greece out of the equasion. There are many other neutral countries that can provie the security of the minority groups.

[Viewpoint]

humanist

VP you are one of those intransigent Turks who is not willing to compromise on anything. I have repeatedly asked you name what political equality you require for unification and you refuse to state it clearly so that someone as dumb as I am can get. I have repeatedly asked you to nalke the guarantees you want to make it safe for you to walk the streets of a unified Cyprus and you outrightly evade doing so.

I have detailed this many times you are either taking the piss or being very bloody minded, I will repeat it once again, I want a BBF with political equality of the 2 communities that allows us and you to say no when and where necessary. All armies should leave, settlers to be reduced on both sides of island allowing mainly for the time frame they have lived in Cyprus. People should be allowed to live where ever they wish north or south state. Refugees land should be returned where possible if not then compensation should be paid. The north state should be guarantted by Turkey until they enter the EU, you can have Greece if you wish not for TCs to decide.

Cant get any clearer than the above.

[repulsewarrior]

Few will give their own opinion on it, 'my' Manifesto, rather from the few postings, i am grateful to some, yet there is the endless projection of what others will do, (or feel). OP is the only one who did me the favour of analysing it and even she got half way through before giving up. however, although it took a while, she now understands the value of enclaves in their geographic context (for this i am grateful) and if we are to live bicommunally, their value in defining bizonal.

...are you waiting for something different from our leaders, without acts, from 'us', many of you won't for yourself let your mind go from what was, and what we deny, to what could be, and what should be. by all means, betray your trust with a heritance that is older than Greek or Turk. ...by all means allow the plunder to end as Human beings, our respect and our willingness to believe in higher powers as one. let's split our dignity as a most socialised society, and as great cooperators; dismissing it is easy.

to tear the island in two is a crime against all Mankind, it is an act of treason, in Cypriot terms, and there is no pride in this, Turkish or Greek.

Cypriot "ism" is not sustainable with the gates closed. I will not cross north until i feel it is safe to do so.

...but that's just me, I encourage this travel by all Cypriots, because if you don't know this island and you are Cypriot, you should.

buying locally is a way to militate, as in village trade to reach out one by one as it is always a better way toward social-exchange, in the south, and in the north, and our farmers and their communities need this help the most; in the dialog, by traveling, a chance to express our rights to mobility and association; new thoughts, to mingle with the more of the same.

a true Cypriot Patriot is one who shares their goodwill, and who acts in a manner that is helpful. no true Cypriot would not want to meet other Cypriots who love this island as much as them without learning more about them. a true Cypriot is eternally happy, not because they are lucky, but because they have the humility to make others as happy as they are, themselves. stopping the dialog means that "roots up" will fail, we have no chance then, it will be up to the same; better we travel in larger numbers to spend more of our money with people who need it, and not the ones who with glee denied a simple request. revolution like guerrilla warfare needs an awakening where there can be charity without throwing to swine, pearls. a vanguard where others can follow, maybe next year(s) patrons of St. Mamas, christian soldiers, half-way across Cyprus in buses a whole panaxiri, this art in warfare through our acts of non-violence, we can demonstrate, with the Grace to give of our lovingness, to laugh, and the resolve which shows our desire toward making life better. This empathy, is a greater threat to the enemy, which came to fill boots and provide guns, because it will mean that their need will see its demise.

close the gates, no.

...use them; more!

[DT.]

The ROC for the past 34 years has been complaining in the international arena that turkey is violating the rights of its citizens to access their property and travel freely around Cyprus, you can not after so much rhetoric turn around and shut the borders and effectiveley do the same thing out of your own will . That is why the ROC allowed the borders to be opened when Denktash opened them, not because she thought it was a particularly good idea or that they were 'tricked' into it. It would be highly inconsistent with the ROC's official positions,the EU would be very critical of such a move and most importantly it would certainly play into our hands. It would infact possibly be one of the biggests gifts diplomatically that could be given to us.

What could possibly be done is not make it as easy to cross the border via a number of mechanisms, but again these could be challenged in court and if it is found that a tourist or a greek cypriot is treated differently than a turkish cypriot is that would mean discrimination of an EU citizen and it would fall in any court so it wont be done. A government that has run a campaign both locally and on the international arena concerning its close links with the turkish cypriot parties does not shut down any borders.

Turkkan, freedom of movement in your own country and the right of return to your home does not mean
1) Right of return as a tourist to your home and you may peak through the window.
2) Freedom of movement in you own country as long as you go through customs.

The opening of our side of the green line had nothing to do with what you're saying but more with the fact that we've been saying all along that TC's and GC"s can co-exist in a unitary state in peace. The crossings have proven that to a great extent and have somewhat disarmed the turkish side from a 30 year old argument that tc's require the protection of the turkish army to survive amongst gc's.

HOWEVER. Lets get one thing straight, the pilgrims were to still pass from Agios Dometios so any trouble that could have been caused would still have been caused in Morphou, so I don't believe that's the reason this happened. The reason this happened was a clear message from Turkey that the Cypriots can only go so far without the permission from Turkey. A message so subtle to foreigners yet so real to us.

Never accept the Pyla demands since they are only one-sided and I would have gone so far so as to shutdown Ledra's for a month. Good strong symbols that you won;t accept 2 measures and that if this is gonna work then both have to tango. Otherwise Turkey will carry on believing that they can afford to be as reluctant and hardcore as they like to negotiate with and there will be no outside noise to condemn it.

DT, like it or not, Turkkan is quite right in his above assessment! All the rest is garbage rhetoric from people that do not grasp well the Cyprus problem!

Kifeas, you can still maintain a positive image abroad and make a gesture of force at the same time. One critical crossing being closed for a specific time period was warranted I believe.

[Bananiot]

Ledra Street for 3 seconds? Is that a good idea?

I am glad you have diluted your original call. This is real progress.

[DT.]

Ledra Street for 3 seconds? Is that a good idea?

I am glad you have diluted your original call. This is real progress.

I haven't diluted anything. If you bother to read what I said in the beginning which I've already posted twice then your attention defficiency would improve a little.

Still going on about how wrong we are Bananiot? I've had TC's agreeing with my views on this but not you.

[Bananiot]

Make a constructive suggestion and I would be the first to pat you on the back.

[DT.]

Make a constructive suggestion and I would be the first to pat you on the back.

here it is again

My position on this bananiot is to initiate goodwill with reciprocation expected. If the goodwill is not returned then we should stop there. The tc's need to realise that the turkish army is standing in the way of both communities.

If Limnitis is not opened so as to enable this cut off community to be able to rejoin the island then the same should be done for the tc community. The message should be clear, "we've offered these measures and expect the goodwill returned, if it is not then complain to your protectors."