Cyprus-Forum.com

[denizaksulu]

In the late 50s the British and the Turks collaborated in order to oppress the revolution of the Cypriot people. After the TCs attacked us in 1958 and the inter-communal conflict was started, 100s of people were dying.

Instead of allowing the Cypriot people to decide the destiny of their own island in a democratic way, and write our own Constitution if we choose to be an independent country (integration with another country (Greece) was also our right, see the resolution regarding de-colonization: http://www.un.org/Depts/dpi/decolonizat ... ration.htm), the British forced on us the 1960 agreements.

Those agreements were not a result of the democratic will of the Cypriot people. They were written by outsiders, and the it was demanded from Makarios to sign them, giving him no other alternative (apart from Cyprus continuing to be part of the British empire). When Makarios asked to make a few changes then refuse this to him.

So it is clear that the 1960 constidution was not a result of the democratic will of the Cypriot people, it was not written by our democratically elected representatives, but was something made by the British and forced on the Cypriot people.

That is the 'abuse' of democracy. We also had the right 'not to be part of Greece, which was your ultimate aim. But we settled for a Republic. That was not good enough for you.

[humanist]

Deniz, you have point there, however that does not help us get out of the mess today.

[Nikitas]

Deniz,

I live in Greece and happened to have employed itinerant workers from Komotini in the north, who are Turks by origin. They have the right to move around the WHOLE of Greece. Which is a lot more rights than I have in Cyprus or that I am likely to get under any future agreement. This is not to project Enosis as a favorable solution, but to point out that the cure is far from ideal. There should have been other alternatives.

[denizaksulu]

Deniz, you have point there, however that does not help us get out of the mess today.

I know Humanist. As long as our dear friend makes point as bove, he needs to be reminded. About the current mess, God only knows. When Christofias makes statements like 'NO solution without Morphou@, I begin to panic. My idea of a solution was Cyprus for ALL. I must be a dreamer.

What a mess.

[denizaksulu]

Deniz,

I live in Greece and happened to have employed itinerant workers from Komotini in the north, who are Turks by origin. They have the right to move around the WHOLE of Greece. Which is a lot more rights than I have in Cyprus or that I am likely to get under any future agreement. This is not to project Enosis as a favorable solution, but to point out that the cure is far from ideal. There should have been other alternatives.

Nikitas, I am aware of what you are saying. It does irritate me that GCs have not the same rights in the North as the TCs have in the south. That is why I will never trust the 'goodwill' of the Northern Administration. As we say, double standards at its best. I am not saying that the south is a 'paradise' either.

[CopperLine]

So it is clear that the 1960 constitution was not a result of the democratic will of the Cypriot people, it was not written by our democratically elected representatives, but was something made by the British and forced on the Cypriot people.

By the same token Piratis this is no more and no less than applies to virtually all the dozens of countries that gained their post-colonial independence from Britain, France, etc in the post second world war period. Nothing distinctive to Cyprus here .

[observer]

There is no doubt that TCs were treated unfairly by what was in effect a GC government between 1963 and 1974.

GCs have a valid point that they have been treated unfairly since 1974, but TCs also have grounds for believing that they have been treated unfairly too.

In an ideal world all Cypriots should be able to wipe the past clean and make a new start as Cypriots, but as so many entries on this forum make clear, this is just not practical. The best that can be hoped for in the upcoming talks is a BBF with the hope that common interest and goodwill will bring the two sides closer together over time.

[Kifeas]

In the late 50s the British and the Turks collaborated in order to oppress the revolution of the Cypriot people. After the TCs attacked us in 1958 and the inter-communal conflict was started, 100s of people were dying.

Instead of allowing the Cypriot people to decide the destiny of their own island in a democratic way, and write our own Constitution if we choose to be an independent country (integration with another country (Greece) was also our right, see the resolution regarding de-colonization: http://www.un.org/Depts/dpi/decolonizat ... ration.htm), the British forced on us the 1960 agreements.

Those agreements were not a result of the democratic will of the Cypriot people. They were written by outsiders, and the it was demanded from Makarios to sign them, giving him no other alternative (apart from Cyprus continuing to be part of the British empire). When Makarios asked to make a few changes then refuse this to him.

So it is clear that the 1960 constidution was not a result of the democratic will of the Cypriot people, it was not written by our democratically elected representatives, but was something made by the British and forced on the Cypriot people.

That is the 'abuse' of democracy. We also had the right 'not to be part of Greece, which was your ultimate aim. But we settled for a Republic. That was not good enough for you.

Deniz, let me reverse for a moment the issue, in order to tell you that had Cyprus been populated by 80% Turkish Cypriots, and only 20% Greek Cypriots, not only by now it (Cyprus) would have been part of Turkey; but even worst, had the GCs claimed the same thing you are claiming above (i.e. the right not to be part of Turkey,) there would have been absolutely not even one single GC left in Cyprus, by now; just like there isn't almost any Greek or Christian left in Turkey, in which at a time -not very long ago- the Greeks were making up to 20% and the Christians up to 40% of the total population of Anatolia; and also judging by the way the Kurdish citizens of Turkey are treated for merely asking for the right to only speak their language!

[denizaksulu]

In the late 50s the British and the Turks collaborated in order to oppress the revolution of the Cypriot people. After the TCs attacked us in 1958 and the inter-communal conflict was started, 100s of people were dying.

Instead of allowing the Cypriot people to decide the destiny of their own island in a democratic way, and write our own Constitution if we choose to be an independent country (integration with another country (Greece) was also our right, see the resolution regarding de-colonization: http://www.un.org/Depts/dpi/decolonizat ... ration.htm), the British forced on us the 1960 agreements.

Those agreements were not a result of the democratic will of the Cypriot people. They were written by outsiders, and the it was demanded from Makarios to sign them, giving him no other alternative (apart from Cyprus continuing to be part of the British empire). When Makarios asked to make a few changes then refuse this to him.

So it is clear that the 1960 constidution was not a result of the democratic will of the Cypriot people, it was not written by our democratically elected representatives, but was something made by the British and forced on the Cypriot people.

That is the 'abuse' of democracy. We also had the right 'not to be part of Greece, which was your ultimate aim. But we settled for a Republic. That was not good enough for you.

Deniz, let me reverse for a moment the issue, in order to tell you that had Cyprus been populated by 80% Turkish Cypriots, and only 20% Greek Cypriots, not only by now it (Cyprus) would have been part of Turkey; but even worst, had the GCs claimed the same thing you are claiming above (i.e. the right not to be part of Turkey,) there would have been absolutely not even one single GC left in Cyprus, by now; just like there isn't almost any Greek or Christian left in Turkey, in which at a time -not very long ago- the Greeks were making up to 20% and the Christians up to 40% of the total population of Anatolia; and also judging by the way the Kurdish citizens of Turkey are treated for merely asking for the right to only speak their language!

IF....................too many ifs Kifeas.

If thre Ottomans never rented Cyprus to the British,

If the Russian bear never showed its claws,

where do we end up with the 'ifs'.

Lets stick to Cyprus and Cypriots and common interest and benefits. Is that hard to understand?

[BC Numismatics]

Deniz,
You're wrong about one thing.The Ottomans never rented Cyprus to Great Britain.Great Britain were more than right to take Cyprus over,as the Ottomans were shite administrators.Cyprus is only an independent country,thanks to the British.

Aidan.