Cyprus-Forum.com

[Cem]

There are many unbiased people analysing the 1960 constitution who would agree it was unfair. Giving the TCs unprecedented powers beyond their numerical worth

....

Yes, unbiased people like...Grieve-Ass, Malaka-rios and yourself..
They first analyzed the constitution and then put their analysis results into practice starting in december 1963.

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Kindly have a look at this for a start: Polivio "Cyprus in search of a Constitution"
.... regarding how the demographic majority were cheated of a voice!

I will deal with the rest of your stupid remarks when I get back.

And what is this ? A book ? A document ? Something I could acces over internet ? Is the author a Greek Cypriot ? If so, what makes his treatise more reliable ?
Moreover, who the hell is this Polivio? What are his credentials ??..etc..etc..
Questions... questions.. thus starts scientific inquiry ..

[Piratis]

In the late 50s the British and the Turks collaborated in order to oppress the revolution of the Cypriot people. After the TCs attacked us in 1958 and the inter-communal conflict was started, 100s of people were dying.

Instead of allowing the Cypriot people to decide the destiny of their own island in a democratic way, and write our own Constitution if we choose to be an independent country (integration with another country (Greece) was also our right, see the resolution regarding de-colonization: http://www.un.org/Depts/dpi/decolonizat ... ration.htm), the British forced on us the 1960 agreements.

Those agreements were not a result of the democratic will of the Cypriot people. They were written by outsiders, and the it was demanded from Makarios to sign them, giving him no other alternative (apart from Cyprus continuing to be part of the British empire). When Makarios asked to make a few changes then refuse this to him.

So it is clear that the 1960 constidution was not a result of the democratic will of the Cypriot people, it was not written by our democratically elected representatives, but was something made by the British and forced on the Cypriot people.

[repulsewarrior]

...as i understand the history, the idea that was being forced on Makarios in Zurich was the partition we have today.

it was Makarios who was able to prevent this with the treaty we have today...

as i have said before, we have Makarios to thank, that a Cypriot identity lives.

...like Denktash who opened the gates, in the end, they chose this island's integrity, before (and above) their respective National identities.

[Viewpoint]

Yes they were treated very badly by the majority Im ld enough to remember being treated as second class citizens at airports crossing points, beaches shopping areas etc, after agreeing to a new constitution which the GCs had not intention of maintaining they throw us out of government and had an hidden agenda to gift Cyprus to Greece which put us in danger so we fought back with Turkeys help but GCs will never admit this because if they do it will only support why we do not trust them one inch and need our own part of the island to administer with plenty of safeguards so that neither side is allowed to repeat the mistakes of the past.

you weren't even born on the Island and visited there on occassion. The fact that you hare a Greco hater does not do justice to your argument because you have proven yourself unable to remain objective or present the other side, which that the TC's through Turkey had been instrumental in harming GC's at the time. The difference is we stopped years ago you have perspetuated your violence towards GC's continually and you continue to do so.

If you think your family had it bad being discrimnated against at the beach, how about you try this one. YOU TOOK MY UNCLE OUT. I was old enough to experience the pain and anguish.

I am truly sorry for your loss and painbut as you are no doubt aware for every GC loss there are also TC losses, the pain for TCs is hightened because GCs and you are one of them do not acknowledge our suffering, you coose to ignore and avoid it and thet supports our mistrust of GCs every treating us as equals.

[Piratis]

I am truly sorry for your loss and painbut as you are no doubt aware for every GC loss there are also TC losses, the pain for TCs is hightened because GCs and you are one of them do not acknowledge our suffering, you coose to ignore and avoid it and thet supports our mistrust of GCs every treating us as equals.

Who is not acknowledging your suffering? I acknowledge it, and I am sure Humanist does as well. So who doesn't?

Of course you suffered as well. When there is a war and conflict between two sides most often than not both sides suffer and have casualties.

So our acknowledgment of your suffering is not the issue. The issue is that you are trying to use your past suffering as an excuse to occupy our land and violate our rights today.

I would understand for you to have such demands if you were the innocent victims and us the evil aggressors. But that is not the case. All the conflicts and wars we had, right from the first one in 1571, in 1821 (and many in between), in 1958 and in 1974, where all started by you against us. Also it is you who caused the most by far suffering and casualties to us, and you who oppressed us, violated our rights and occupied our lands for the longest time (somehting that you continue doing today).

So we do not object to the fact that you suffered or you had casualties. What we object is to your efforts to continue committing crimes against us today, trying to excuse them with some past suffering of several decades ago, forgetting that it is you who started the conflicts and you who caused far more suffering to us.

[Kikapu]

In life and in conflict, mistreatment of others is a two way street. Sometimes mistreatment of each other occur at the same time in parallels, or as a revenge for past misdeeds and if opportunity allows it, revenge is sought and delivered at much later date than when the mistreatment first took place. Therefore, those who may be victims at certain time in history may well have been aggressors at another time, therefore just by picking a certain time in history to tell you who the victims and the aggressors were, does not do justice to the overall problem between the communities. One can try and create a chain of events to find one community at fault over the other, but in the end, the results will be, that neither community were angels going back centuries.

[repulsewarrior]

Actually VP, to speak cynically, you got your revenge in blood ten times over, just like the land you possess which is not yours. this is not enough; and in your low esteem, what has survived is corruption and murder, as tools used by your elite, for your "State", mono clonal and exclusive.

Limnitis and Solomou still sting you see, and if what you say about "Greeks" is true then you will also agree that we are both in trouble.

Things cannot stay the way they are. The change will mean an advent, something new and something different, where we will maximise our prosperity in union, as the island dwellers. Nothing should be more important to us. The benefits will far outway the costs. And in our esteem we will have in our happiness humility, the Grace to be giving, and to do so as Cypriots in a manner where we as persons sustain our distinctive manner in this hospitality.

that is bicommunal: a State, and two National Assemblies.

[humanist]

MY apologies I actually wanted to answer NO they were not, but with every situation there is history and context

[Kikapu]

Have been living in Cyprus for some years now and have heard statements like the 3 below on several occasions.

1) " The GC's treated the TC's as second class citizens and looked down on them."

2) "The partition of Cyprus is a very sad state of affairs..but lets face it..the GC's asked for what they got in 1974."

3) "We treated the TC's like scum because they are scum."

Comments such as these I have heard from...GC's....TC's...English...English Cypriots.

Personally I have no idea how TC's were treated prior to 74 since I did not live here at that time.

My question therefore is this...Were the TC's treated fairly by the GC's prior to 74...?

Yes they were treated very badly by the majority Im ld enough to remember being treated as second class citizens at airports crossing points, beaches shopping areas etc, after agreeing to a new constitution which the GCs had not intention of maintaining they throw us out of government and had an hidden agenda to gift Cyprus to Greece which put us in danger so we fought back with Turkeys help but GCs will never admit this because if they do it will only support why we do not trust them one inch and need our own part of the island to administer with plenty of safeguards so that neither side is allowed to repeat the mistakes of the past.

Im ld enough to remember being treated as second class citizens at airports crossing points, beaches shopping areas etc, after agreeing to a new constitution

What's the matter VP, did you forget that you were born in the UK in 1962/3 and that you did not move to Cyprus until 1992 at the ripe old age of 30. So how were you persecuted and treated as a second class citizen going through Ercan airport and the crossings, which did not open until 2003, and enjoying the beaches in the north with 40,000 Turkish Troops. Your fabricated story is as bad, if not worse than Liar Soyer's who claimed to have been taken as a prisoner by the EOKA in Kücük Kaymakli in 1963. Liar Soyer refuse to apologize for his lies and instead took off. Are you going to apologize for your lies VP, or are you going to leave us also.??

I'll be waiting for your full apology for making a inaccurate statement VP. Please do me a favour and don't make it last 20 pages of game playing with me to try and wear me down. It did not work for Liar Soyer and it will not work for you, so please don't waste any one's time and lets have your apology pronto for telling a lie.

[humanist]

VP I am not saying you (TC's) have not suferred by the actions of some GC's in the the 60's. I think what I was trying to illustrate is the fact that both communties suferred as a directly or indirectly, bu the actions of the other. I think if we are genuinely looking for a BBF solution then we need to concentrate on what we can achieve. We need to help each other out in whatever way we can to bring this BBF to reality. The latest actions by Turkish generals does not make the way into the future easier. That is all am saying. More sadly they tell you (TC's) that they are boss. You (TC's) my friend are screwed you got the enemy on the one hand and you have your rullers on the other to content. Don't think I can't understand the position of TC's.

Thank you for your other coments. It's all cool.