Cyprus-Forum.com

[utu]

...as a Cypriot however, in a United Republic of Cyprus, I would prefer to vote for my Turkish Cypriot Representative and my Greek Cypriot Representative from two seperate slates for the House which leads, with its President, a Party Leader, by winning a majority over the equally numbered seats. A Lower House which votes by consensus, elected to represent ridings of equal sizes, being free of National Politics, Independant of its Parties, and sitting on the Governments Commitees, will assure that the State remains transparent in its policy toward minorities, with the island's changing demographics and a population which may grow to 12 million over 200 years.

...yes utu, English is not a bad language to have Official, and i hope that a United Republic of Cyprus would be able to commit to this language with a superior fluency to it, in several languages, Arabic, Greek and Turkish to name a few.

lol, the world is made up of counting bits and bytes... take the word 'the' seven times in seven seperate languages and figure what that is worth. few countries, like Canada and Cyprus, are so uniquely suited to make this attempt at a broader sense of communication possible.

The concern about any form of federalism in Cyrpus is that the Greek south and the Turkish north would still be in a form of partition, and under that scenario, the problem would not be solved.
There is an idea about having both states overlap each other, so that an 'overlap zone' state in the center of Cyprus make up of both groups would be formed. In this 'overlap zone', there would be residents from both main groups who are willing to live together, but upon reflection, it just seems to be another version of the buffer zone currently in existance.
A unitary state setup with the representaives of the government elected based on demographic formulae, and in turn checked by a senate made up of equal percentages of the four main ethnic groups seems to be the best idea IMHO

[utu]

utu, we are speaking the same language. now let us see if we will stand accused
as Canadians by the "Turks or Greeks who put Nations above their own will on this island".
(lol)

You do yourself an injustice by lowering the standard of this debate with this type of rhetoric, which is only designed to further divide Cypriots on nationalistic grounds. No one is going to accuse you for your beliefs provided they are sensible, which they mostly are IMHO.

Well, if the people on the island can see themselves as purely Cypriot and beholden to no other country, then there will be hope for Cyprus to survive as a unitary and sovereign country.

[Paphitis]

utu, we are speaking the same language. now let us see if we will stand accused
as Canadians by the "Turks or Greeks who put Nations above their own will on this island".
(lol)

You do yourself an injustice by lowering the standard of this debate with this type of rhetoric, which is only designed to further divide Cypriots on nationalistic grounds. No one is going to accuse you for your beliefs provided they are sensible, which they mostly are IMHO.

Well, if the people on the island can see themselves as purely Cypriot and beholden to no other country, then there will be hope for Cyprus to survive as a unitary and sovereign country.

You seem to forget that the majority of the islands population still wish to identify themselves with Hellenic and Ottoman culture. It is a very personal choice that should be left up to the individual, but it still does not absolve all Cypriot citizens from their responsibility of maintaining allegiance to Cyprus alone. Yes we are all Cypriot citizens, but culturally we are something more than this as far as ethnicity is concerned. And any nationalistic rants which hurt the other community need to be frowned upon and condemned.

[repulsewarrior]

Paphitis
it is not a division, it is integration, it is recognising our distinctive identities as Persons while as Individuals we are prepared to defend our Rights united and for the interests of the island first. what is hard to understand? a strong central state that is sovereign over the land and the sea that is this island; able in defending itself and in defending our Individual Rights.

And, being Bicommunal

Two National Assemblies, where as Persons we can direct the application of this infrastructure on territory over which each acts on the will of its majority first.

...sorry guys in my mind enclaves serve to keep us United and with them there is a useful definition applied to this word, "Bizonal".

[utu]

Yes we are all Cypriot citizens, but culturally we are something more than this as far as ethnicity is concerned. And any nationalistic rants which hurt the other community need to be frowned upon and condemned.

Amen to that last sentence, Paphitis. Greek heritage should be a source of pride to Greek Cypriots, just like Turkish heritage should be a source of pride to Turkish Cypriots, but that pride should never supplant the fact that if one decides to live and stay in Cyprus, the Cypriot identity should prevail...

[humanist]

utu

Amen to that last sentence, Paphitis. Greek heritage should be a source of pride to Greek Cypriots, just like Turkish heritage should be a source of pride to Turkish Cypriots, but that pride should never supplant the fact that if one decides to live and stay in Cyprus, the Cypriot identity should prevail...

why shouldn't Greek Cyriot heritage be a source of pride to Greek and Turkish Cypriots alike, just like Turkish Cypriot heritage be a source to Turkish and Greek cypriots alike? Those two cultures brought together is what makes Cypriots unique and diferent to Greeks as far as I know. I can't coment on TC's being similar or different to Turks of Turkey.

[repulsewarrior]

...in my Cyprus there will be Turkish Greeks, and Greek Turks (Jewish Turks, and Arab Greeks (some time in a future further, but not so far away)) because they choose freely whether as a minority or majority where they want to live. even if "Greeks" and "Turks" live "here", as well, we will not be overwhelmed by their need for exclusivity within the public domain (nor will their enmity be our enmity); whatever our "ethnic" origins (or Nation with which we identify) there is in a Bicommunal State voices to be heard, and as a People, first as Cypriots, we remain this island's dwellers and its Steward.

Two Natonal Assemblies serve to sustain the distinctiveness of these communities (Turkish and Greek), and in terms of infrastructure the United Republic of Cyprus will endeavor to transfer funds in the application of its acts to these bodies. Having a right to tax, the National Assemblies can enact works of their own for the benefit of its electors. ... in other words hospital care is Universal, depending where you are it is "Turkish" or "Greek" first, but it is just as functional in at least their counterpart's(') language(s) as well as English. Municipalities will tax you as well, they will meet some level of competance too, with their Charter obtained from the Communal level of government, (rather than a single central government), your rights protected by the Federal government, your expression as an individual [(Turkish or Greek (Maronite, Armenian)), Jewish, Arab, and others in the future as in the past] though a collective representation, and the ability to act, (a little closer to your own tax dollar) in National Assemblies.

yes humanist, we can share in the pride that on our island we support a social context which is inclusive, and that within this culture their is a collectivity of societies which promote this tolerance, our distinction as Cypriots: Cooperators and welcoming.

[EricSeans]

Wise, wise words.

Bananiot my friend we will be at peace protest together . let them to talk .they like the ways how it is going on now .

The Cat Stevens is coming to perform a peace concert to support the talks . every efforts that we are going to make will open more gates for us .These people are only talks . Love buses are on the roads as well .They started to carry passengers from South Nicosia to Kyreania .he love bus company is under the treat from ROC transport minister. how are still he is doing his job .

some of them they don't understand giving what the news says in north than personal views of me .Let them to talk and attack as Bananiot at the end people like us will win .

they talks about colors of Attila but they never see they are own colors .
tell u truth they are is no difference between them .

[EricSeans]

Also wise words. I'm impressed by the quality of debate on this BB. Not like the other side.

You are such a defeatist DT. Last night Greek Cypriots and Turkish Cypriots held a joint mass rally for peace at Ledra Palace. Our common enemy is whoever is preventing peace and surely we all understand that the Turkish army does not like the idea of common struggle of Turkish and Greek Cypriots because it goes against its interests.

When I wrote that the Turkish army is behind the events at Limnitis, the super patriots of the forum jumped on me like they were possessed because they wanted to prove that the Turkish Cypriots are just as bad. They are doing a great deservice to the cause of Cyprus by alienating the Turkish Cypriots from the common struggle. They have done this before and brought disaster to Cyprus and it seems, they never learn.

[Kifeas]

You are such a defeatist DT. Last night Greek Cypriots and Turkish Cypriots held a joint mass rally for peace at Ledra Palace. Our common enemy is whoever is preventing peace and surely we all understand that the Turkish army does not like the idea of common struggle of Turkish and Greek Cypriots because it goes against its interests.

When I wrote that the Turkish army is behind the events at Limnitis, the super patriots of the forum jumped on me like they were possessed because they wanted to prove that the Turkish Cypriots are just as bad. They are doing a great deservice to the cause of Cyprus by alienating the Turkish Cypriots from the common struggle. They have done this before and brought disaster to Cyprus and it seems, they never learn.

Soyer’s comments prior to today’s meeting:

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`The objective is a new partnership state to be formed by politically equal Turkish Cypriot and Greek Cypriot constituent states, which will have a single international identity`, the Prime Minister said, adding that the point to be reached must be based on a vision of both leaders, equality of Turkish Cypriots and bi-zonal structure.

Mr Soyer stressed that Turkey's guarantorship would continue in all circumstances as a reality that can not be debated.

Talat’s comments in today’s meeting with Christofias

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The “President” (Talat) listed the continuation of the 1960 Treaties of Guarantee and of Alliance as an essential part of a settlement; safeguards to ensure that neither side can claim jurisdiction over the other; and maintaining the internal balance between the two sides in Cyprus as well as the external balance between Greece and Turkey over Cyprus, as elements they attach great importance.

Mr Talat expressed the hope that the two sides will able to reach common ground on all issues and will be able to agree on a settlement plan that respects fully the political equality of the Turkish Cypriot People and the Greek Cypriot People.

Bananiot, do you believe that this so-called common struggle that you talked above, between the TCs and the GCs, also embraces or includes the above aims and goals of the TC (not mainland Turkish) leadership, for a solution that will be the outcome of a “new partnership” agreement between the so-called TC and GC constituent states, which will “maintain” the so-called external balance between Greece and Turkey OVER Cyprus; or do you seriously think that the Cyprus issue will be solved on the basis of empty slogans and rhetoric, like the ones you and your friend Halil profess in this forum?

Where have you seen any common struggle between the GCs and the TCs, when the TCs and their leadership do not accept the idea of one independed and sovereign country, one people and one nation; but they only understand the Cyprus problem to be that of how better to establish Cyprus as a protectorate of foreign powers, and how to better serve the interests of Turkey, by placing Cyprus under its dominion and suzerainty? Are you day-dreaming, or what? There is no common struggle, Bananiot, neither a common vision, nor common objectives! Digest it, like I did!