Cyprus-Forum.com

[repulsewarrior]

utu, we are speaking the same language. now let us see if we will stand accused
as Canadians by the "Turks or Greeks who put Nations above their own will on this island".
(lol)
You speak as a Cypriot.
thank-you,
what about enclaves?; two National Assemblies, each communities' Constituency, with a territory, made up of
parts.

[Paphitis]

Paphitis when you say "virgin birth" you give Talat some credibility, as though we know what it means. When I say "virgin birth" i tell you mine. Talat wants a "virgin birth", and without a definition it is not a bad way of defining the unknown; if we are willing to believe that with this impasse things will have to change in ways unknown to us at present. that is all the credence we can give this desire...

quit judging and read, did you get passed the first sentence?

it is not that hard to understand, and it is based on all the other proposals for a Solution to the Problem.

c'mon guys, i write to Christofias whenever I feel that I can offer help. i'd like to write to Talat but i can't find an e-mail for him that works.

this manifesto is you; believe it or not

VP and a guy named Dhavlos were the first to offer me a dialog, in giving me their ideas, now a few years ago.
i have changed, my attitude of mind, because i have the courage to overcome my own fear, (my humble advice to those who are afraid) and
yet the Principal has never changed, for me at least, since '74, when the spots on the map of Cyprus first
appeared as a way of defining Bizonal; and thus the confidence that this idea is sound. Although few support my
view publicly the PM's are warming.
although i have been ignored for the most part, you cannot dispute that as a system it works. the will is lacking
because it seems that what we expect is more of the same.

would you choose Partition over my Manifesto?

it is important that they, our two leaders, have this support. please don't sit around feeling helpless, think. help me, act. choose.

In short RW, I do not agree with the establishment of any cantons or enclaves as they only serve to maintain the division amongst Cypriots. It also helps to facilitate and assists any extremists from either side to commence a domino effect of violence, such as what had occured in the past.

[utu]

There would not be 'enclaves' in the pure sense of the word. The term 'canton' would be more accurate, though this would be for electoral purposes only. The state would therefore be unitary with a facade of federalism, in reality applying only to the electoral constituencies. The Government - as I said - would be a lower house based on population percentage. 100 MP's: 18 Turk, 1 Armenian, 1 Maronite, 79 Greek, 1 other. The upper house - who must endorse all bills passed by the lower house is made up of twenty senators - sixteen of which would comprise the senate, whilst the remaining four would comprise the council of state. Four from each population group - Greek, Turk, Armenian, Maronite. Their majority vote would either endorse of vote down lower house bills.
The four senators who make up the council of state would rotate the Chairman of the State Council, who acts as the ceremonial head of state. The cabinet would be appointed on the U.S. Model with the Council of State appointing nominees and the senate endorsing the appointments.

[utu]

In short RW, I do not agree with the establishment of any cantons or enclaves as they only serve to maintain the division amongst Cypriots. It also helps to facilitate and assists any extremists from either side to commence a domino effect of violence, such as what had occured in the past.

Clarification: Cantons in the way I envisage would be solely for the terms of electing members of the government. In all other respects, the state would be unitary. The only thing that I would want to see is that religious leaders or representatives of any faith would not be eligible to hold office.

[Paphitis]

There would not be 'enclaves' in the pure sense of the word. The term 'canton' would be more accurate, though this would be for electoral purposes only. The state would therefore be unitary with a facade of federalism, in reality applying only to the electoral constituencies. The Government - as I said - would be a lower house based on population percentage. 100 MP's: 18 Turk, 1 Armenian, 1 Maronite, 79 Greek, 1 other. The upper house - who must endorse all bills passed by the lower house is made up of twenty senators - sixteen of which would comprise the senate, whilst the remaining four would comprise the council of state. Four from each population group - Greek, Turk, Armenian, Maronite. Their majority vote would either endorse of vote down lower house bills.
The four senators who make up the council of state would rotate the Chairman of the State Council, who acts as the ceremonial head of state. The cabinet would be appointed on the U.S. Model with the Council of State appointing nominees and the senate endorsing the appointments.

So far an excellent model.

But, how can you justify the GC community which comprises 78% of the population only having 25% of the seats in the Senate?

[Paphitis]

In short RW, I do not agree with the establishment of any cantons or enclaves as they only serve to maintain the division amongst Cypriots. It also helps to facilitate and assists any extremists from either side to commence a domino effect of violence, such as what had occured in the past.

Clarification: Cantons in the way I envisage would be solely for the terms of electing members of the government. In all other respects, the state would be unitary. The only thing that I would want to see is that religious leaders or representatives of any faith would not be eligible to hold office.

The state should be secular as you say, and this is what we have today.

But you can not forbid clergy the right of running for office. This is tantamount to denying them their democratic rights as citizens!

[utu]

In short RW, I do not agree with the establishment of any cantons or enclaves as they only serve to maintain the division amongst Cypriots. It also helps to facilitate and assists any extremists from either side to commence a domino effect of violence, such as what had occured in the past.

Clarification: Cantons in the way I envisage would be solely for the terms of electing members of the government. In all other respects, the state would be unitary. The only thing that I would want to see is that religious leaders or representatives of any faith would not be eligible to hold office.

The state should be secular as you say, and this is what we have today.

But you can not forbid clergy the right of running for office. This is tantamount to denying them their democratic rights as citizens!

Call me old-fashioned, but a person who runs for office should not be a theocrat. The secular nature of the government means that clergy should not have a say in running the government. Voting is different, and clergy should not be stopped from voting. The biggest complaint about the previous governments of Cyprus is that the Greek Orthrodox Church had too much sway in it, and their disdain for both Islam and Turks is unfortunatley quite well-known. Your first president was a good example of that. When a person in power invokes God in order to look down on other minorities, it becomes theocratic, and THAT must be avoided if peace is to prevail.

[Paphitis]

In short RW, I do not agree with the establishment of any cantons or enclaves as they only serve to maintain the division amongst Cypriots. It also helps to facilitate and assists any extremists from either side to commence a domino effect of violence, such as what had occured in the past.

Clarification: Cantons in the way I envisage would be solely for the terms of electing members of the government. In all other respects, the state would be unitary. The only thing that I would want to see is that religious leaders or representatives of any faith would not be eligible to hold office.

The state should be secular as you say, and this is what we have today.

But you can not forbid clergy the right of running for office. This is tantamount to denying them their democratic rights as citizens!

Call me old-fashioned, but a person who runs for office should not be a theocrat. The secular nature of the government means that clergy should not have a say in running the government. Voting is different, and clergy should not be stopped from voting. The biggest complaint about the previous governments of Cyprus is that the Greek Orthrodox Church had too much sway in it, and their disdain for both Islam and Turks is unfortunatley quite well-known. Your first president was a good example of that. When a person in power invokes God in order to look down on other minorities, it becomes theocratic, and THAT must be avoided if peace is to prevail.

Call me old-fashioned, but a person who runs for office should not be a theocrat. The secular nature of the government means that clergy should not have a say in running the government. Voting is different, and clergy should not be stopped from voting.

I agree about secularism. But you can not deny any clergy or imam the right of running for office. They as individuals have this right in a true democracy.

The biggest complaint about the previous governments of Cyprus is that the Greek Orthrodox Church had too much sway in it, and their disdain for both Islam and Turks is unfortunatley quite well-known. Your first president was a good example of that. When a person in power invokes God in order to look down on other minorities, it becomes theocratic, and THAT must be avoided if peace is to prevail.

If any clergy or imam is able to gain high office, then surely the Senate that you propose acts as a good safeguard against filtering out any non secular acts by those in power.

I think that prohibiting any person from the right to run for office is not the answer. IMHO

[repulsewarrior]

...as a Cypriot however, in a United Republic of Cyprus, I would prefer to vote for my Turkish Cypriot Representative and my Greek Cypriot Representative from two seperate slates for the House which leads, with its President, a Party Leader, by winning a majority over the equally numbered seats. A Lower House which votes by consensus, elected to represent ridings of equal sizes, being free of National Politics, Independant of its Parties, and sitting on the Governments Commitees, will assure that the State remains transparent in its policy toward minorities, with the island's changing demographics and a population which may grow to 12 million over 200 years.

...yes utu, English is not a bad language to have Official, and i hope that a United Republic of Cyprus would be able to commit to this language with a superior fluency to it, in several languages, Arabic, Greek and Turkish to name a few.

lol, the world is made up of counting bits and bytes... take the word 'the' seven times in seven seperate languages and figure what that is worth. few countries, like Canada and Cyprus, are so uniquely suited to make this attempt at a broader sense of communication possible.

[Paphitis]

utu, we are speaking the same language. now let us see if we will stand accused
as Canadians by the "Turks or Greeks who put Nations above their own will on this island".
(lol)

You do yourself an injustice by lowering the standard of this debate with this type of rhetoric, which is only designed to further divide Cypriots on nationalistic grounds. No one is going to accuse you for your beliefs provided they are sensible, which they mostly are IMHO.