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Will Turkey Abandon NATO?

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Will Turkey Abandon NATO?

Postby boomerang » Fri Aug 29, 2008 10:00 am

Will Turkey Abandon NATO?
By ZEYNO BARAN
August 29, 2008; Page A15

Will Turkey side with the United States, its NATO ally, and let more U.S. military ships into the Black Sea to assist Georgia? Or will it choose Russia?

A Turkish refusal would seriously impair American efforts to support the beleaguered Caucasus republic. Ever since Turkey joined NATO in 1952, it has hoped to never have to make a choice between the alliance and its Russian neighbor to the North. Yet that is precisely the decision before Ankara. If Turkey does not allow the ships through, it will essentially be taking Russia's side.

Whether in government or in the military, Turkish officials have for several years been expressing concern about U.S. intentions to "enter" the Black Sea. Even at the height of the Cold War, the Black Sea remained peaceful due to the fact that Turkey and Russia had clearly defined spheres of influence. But littoral countries Romania and Bulgaria have since joined NATO, and Ukraine and Georgia have drawn closer to the Euro-Atlantic alliance. Ankara has expressed nervousness about a potential Russian reaction.

The Turkish mantra goes something like this: "the U.S. wants to expand NATO into the Black Sea -- and as in Iraq, this will create a mess in our neighborhood, leaving us to deal with the consequences once America eventually pulls out. After all, if Russia is agitated, it won't be the Americans that will have to deal with them."

Nonetheless, Ankara sided with fellow NATO members in telling Georgia and Ukraine that they would be invited to join the alliance -- albeit without any time frame. But now that Russia has waged war in part over this decision, the Turks will have to pick sides. Deputy chief of the Russian general staff Anatoly Nogoivtsyn already warned Turkey that Russia will hold Turkey responsible if the U.S. ships do not leave the Black Sea. Foreign Minister Sergei Lavrov will travel to Ankara on Monday to make clear that Russia means it.

Russia is Turkey's largest trading partner, mostly because of Turkey's dependence on Russian gas. More important, the two countries share what some call the post-imperial stress syndrome: that is, an inability to see former provinces as fellow independent states, and ultimately a wish to recreate old agreements on spheres of influence. When Mr. Putin gave a speech in Munich last year challenging the U.S.-led world order, Turks cheered. The Turkish military even posted it on its Web site. President Abdullah Gül recently suggested that "a new world order should emerge."

Turkey joined Russia at the height of its war on Georgia in suggesting a five-party "Caucasus Stability and Cooperation Platform." In other words, they want to keep the U.S. and the EU at arm's length. Both Russia and Turkey consider Georgia's American-educated president, Mikheil Saakashvili, to be crazy enough to unleash the next world war. In that view Turkey is not so far from the positions of France or Germany -- but even these two countries did not suggest that the Georgians sign up to a new regional arrangement co-chaired by Russia while the Kremlin's air force was bombing Georgian cities.

Two other neighbors -- Azerbaijan and Armenia -- are watching the Turkish-Russian partnership with concern. Azeris remember how the Turks -- their ethnic and religious brethren -- left them to be annexed by the Soviets in the 1920s. Armenians already fear their giant neighbor, who they consider to have committed genocide against them. Neither wants to have to rely on Iran (once again) as a counterbalance to Russia. Oh, and of course, Iran had its own sphere-of-influence arrangements with the Soviets as well.

Though Turkey and Iran are historic competitors, Turkey has broken with NATO countries recently by hosting President Mahmoud Ahmedinejad on a working visit. As the rest of NATO was preoccupied with the Russian aggression in Georgia, Turkey legitimized the Iranian leader amidst chants in Istanbul of "death to Israel, death to America."

A few days later, Turkey played host to Sudan's Omar al-Bashir, who is accused of genocide by the rest of NATO -- but not by Russia or Iran, or by the Muslim-majority countries who usually claim to care so much about Muslim lives.

Where is Turkey headed? Turkish officials say they are using their trust-based relations with various sides to act as a mediator between various parties in the region: the U.S. and Iran; Israel and Syria; Pakistan and Afghanistan, etc. It may be so. But as more American ships steam toward the Black Sea, a time for choosing has arrived.

Ms. Baran is senior fellow and director of the Center For Eurasian Policy at the Hudson Institute.

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB121997087258381935.html?mod=googlenews_wsj


The turks will turn as always to the highest bidder...like we've seen before with WW2...

One thing is for sure the yanks never really forgot about the last no from "turkey=fascist state"...

Lets all hope they turn their backs to the US again...Lets all gather around for another vigil with the candles...
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Postby turkkan » Fri Aug 29, 2008 10:37 am

boom, is this even a serious post or are you just trying to provoke a reaction?
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Postby boomerang » Fri Aug 29, 2008 10:40 am

turkkan wrote:boom, is this even a serious post or are you just trying to provoke a reaction?



Turkkan, nice to hear from you :lol:

No mate I thought it's an interesting article from the Washington Journal...as far as a reaction, well you know how it is...already being there with Iraq...

Who do you think is gonna side with who?
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Postby Raymanoff » Fri Aug 29, 2008 10:43 am

This is what i call new world order... finally.
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Postby Nikitas » Fri Aug 29, 2008 11:34 am

Note that the first US ship to tie up in Georgia was a COAST GUARD vessel and not a US navy ship. Little details tell a lot. Isolated ships moving into the Black Sea mean nothing. Ships make sense only if they are in mutally supportive formation and there is no way a fleet could go to the Black Sea and risk being trapped there by an "accident" in the Bosphorus.
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Postby Tim Drayton » Fri Aug 29, 2008 12:02 pm

Turkey as a nation that is vigorously promoting its EU accession process is clearly going to side with the West.

It is, in my view, highly significant that Merkel and Sarkozy, the most vociferous opponents of Turkish EU membership, have come out in strong support of Georgia in its conflict with Russia. I sense that a new game has started in which the goal is to increase Western influence in parts of the former Soviet Union. Georgia is a pawn in this game. In order to dangle the carrot of EU membership before Georgia, Turkey first needs to become a member. I expect Turkey's EU accession process to be fast tracked, and the major obstacle to this is Cyprus. Hence, I also expect this autumn's round of negotiations to produce a "miracle solution" that appears to have been the work solely of Cypriots, but in fact has been carefully engineered behind the scenes. Sadly, this will once again be a solution that serves the interests of Western imperialism. Don't forget that the latter views Turkey as an important strategic ally. This provides a clue as to which party is likely to benefit most from such a solution.

It may have been possible to create a solution that benefitted the people of Cyprus, rather than the Bilderbergs. However, when members of one community can do nothing but pour scorn on a well-meaning effort by a civil society organisation - one that has no ties with the Turkish or TRNC governments - composed of people in the other community who have a genuine commitment to reunification, and some of whose members have been outspoken critics of the Talat regime, involving the purely symbolic act of lighting candles in the name of a nebulous concept of "peace" that surely every human being can support, what hope is there? People who permit themselves to be divided and ruled get what they deserve.
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Postby Piratis » Fri Aug 29, 2008 12:38 pm

Sadly, this will once again be a solution that serves the interests of Western imperialism. Don't forget that the latter views Turkey as an important strategic ally. This provides a clue as to which party is likely to benefit most from such a solution.


In that case it will again be rejected. Then what? Will they recognize the pseudo state? But that will only guarantee our and Greece's veto to the Turkish EU accession.

If they consider Cyprus as an obstacle, then the only way to remove this obstacle is to force Turkey to accept a true solution that the Cypriots can accept.
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Postby Oracle » Fri Aug 29, 2008 1:03 pm

We all know having Turkey sign up to anything means nothing in terms of committing them to co-operation.

They are eager to belong to all the clubs, yet use them as it suits them, and fail to recognize them or reciprocate when they have to fulfil an obligation.

They are a gross liability to any organisation since they are unreliable and disloyal, and judge every opportunity with its potential for their continued Expansion.
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Postby Raymanoff » Fri Aug 29, 2008 1:06 pm

Oracle, mark my words...
IF... Turkey "quits" NATO >> US withdrawal from IRAQ - consider Northern IRAQ (Kurdistan) occupied.
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Postby Tim Drayton » Fri Aug 29, 2008 1:26 pm

Piratis wrote:
Sadly, this will once again be a solution that serves the interests of Western imperialism. Don't forget that the latter views Turkey as an important strategic ally. This provides a clue as to which party is likely to benefit most from such a solution.


In that case it will again be rejected. Then what? Will they recognize the pseudo state? But that will only guarantee our and Greece's veto to the Turkish EU accession.

If they consider Cyprus as an obstacle, then the only way to remove this obstacle is to force Turkey to accept a true solution that the Cypriots can accept.


If you think that a small island nation, let alone one whose people are incapable of uniting in the defence of their common interests, can stand in the way of the Anglo-American imperialistic alliance, a study of the fate of the inhabitants of Diego Garcia may prove instructive:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Depopulati ... ego_Garcia

Here, the whole population of the island were removed to make way for an air base.

The fact that Germany and France, which have been lukewarm to say the least about the Anglo-American adventure in Afghanistan and Iraq, seem to be giving the Georgian project their wholehearted support suggests to me that a deal to eliminate an inconvenient little hurdle like the Cyprus problem has already been done behind closed doors. All that remains is to make it appear to have come from the lips of Christofias and Talat and make sure that it is approved in the referenda. Since this deal will surely result in the EU acquis communautaire being applied to the whole island, the people of Cyprus certainly face a happier future than those of Diego Garcia.
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