Cyprus-Forum.com

[Bananiot]

Humanist, we have been through this numerous times. There can be only one solution that can be negotiated. Bizonal, bicommunal federation with political equality of the two component states. The details will be decided with good will on behave of the two parts.

If we aspire for something "better", we would need to think of a different recourse to negotiations. Staying as we are (as Piratis and other losers suggest) is not an option because simply things will not be the same tomorrow. They will only get worse.

[DT.]

Humanist, we have been through this numerous times. There can be only one solution that can be negotiated. Bizonal, bicommunal federation with political equality of the two component states. The details will be decided with good will on behave of the two parts.

If we aspire for something "better", we would need to think of a different recourse to negotiations. Staying as we are (as Piratis and other losers suggest) is not an option because simply things will not be the same tomorrow. They will only get worse.

How can aspiring for something better equal with staying as we are?

[Bananiot]

Come on DT, you know perfectly well what I mean. If we do not have the clout (military and political) to go for something better we should sit tight and wait for the balance of power to change. In other words the present stalemate is the second best solution. Does this ring a bell?

[Piratis]

The ancient Greeks, alekcen, had pride and decency. They were not defeatists like you. If they were like you they wouldn't fight the Persians who far outnumbered them. And in more recent times they wouldn't fight against the Ottomans in their revolution or against the Italians and Germans during WWII, again nations who far outnumbered them and have far more power

Defeatists??? I would prefer to say realistic my friend, not living constantly with illusions and fairytales and wait for the mighty Grego-Cypriot EMPIRE to raise again so i can re-claim my country.
Also how can somone compare the fight against Nazi - fascist and against slavery with BBF, which has nothing to do with the examples u mentioned.

And what would be the "realistic" think to do when the Persians were invading? What would be the "realistic" thing to do with the Ottomans? What would be the "realistic" thing to do against the Italians during WWII? Isn't it always "realistic" not to fight when your opponent appears more powerful?

You are just trying to cover your defeatism with "realism" my friend.

Defeatis like me??? Defeatist could also be called the people who fight in 1974 when the nationalist like YOU, who used to support enosis, runned like cowards when the invasion happened, and came to protect limassol and Troodos??? We ve seen nationalist like u in the past, and we ve seen the help of Greece in 1974. We ve seen the nationalist u support that instead of go and fight the enemy, they prefered to go into TC villages and kill women and children.


So in ur opinion i should start preparing for the holy war the GreekCypriot empire will start in the future so we eradicate all the turks and take instabull and ismirn back also, and unifiy cyprus with greece???

Better a Nationalist and Patriot than a defeatist ass kisser traitor like you.
The war is not over my friend. Just compare Greek Cypriots with the Turks and the TCs now. Who has been more successful during the last 34 years, us or them? We might have lost a lot, but they also face consequences which are harmful for them. And we can do even more in this direction.

For your information I didn't run from anywhere during the invasion. But I don't blame the ones who did. At this point the Turks are more powerful and it was not easy for us. But what goes around comes around. Turkey is a fragile country divided between Turks and Kurds and between the followers of Ataturk and the followers of Islam. The time they will go down hard is not very far from now, and that time will be the time we will liberate our island. (unless of course they accept a fair and democratic solution by then, so we can have a real solution and a permanent peace)

So we will not capitulate. If you personally want to capitulate then cross the cease fire line and do it yourself, like Agastiniotis, Fanos Drousiotis and maybe other similar minded traitors have done.

And I never talk about "eradicating" anybody or about any empire. This is what Turks, your friends, do against us. What I am talking about is freedom for our island. Nothing less and nothing more.

[roseandchan]

turkeys not likely to go down as you say. whats that in your dreams? shit happens just move on, stop dwelling on the past and look to the future for your childrens sake.

[Sotos]

Shit will happen to you too. Just wait for it. You shit on us, we will shit on you For your childrens sake I would advice you to give us back our land. Don't say I didn't warn you!

[alekcen]

And what would be the "realistic" think to do when the Persians were invading? What would be the "realistic" thing to do with the Ottomans? What would be the "realistic" thing to do against the Italians during WWII? Isn't it always "realistic" not to fight when your opponent appears more powerful?

You are just trying to cover your defeatism with "realism" my friend

I told u before not to mix, those cases, what has the solution to do with the fight against Nazi , or what has the war with the Persians. We are talking about negotiations now, and civilised way of solving differences.
So u suggest for us to make WAR, thats what u are implying????
Or u want us to wait for years until miracle happens??? Wait for years until the settlers are 500 000, or wait until there is no GC property left???

Realism my friend , means being patriotic, on the contrary nationalist ideas have lead us to this point.

Better a Nationalist and Patriot than a defeatist ass kisser traitor like you.
The war is not over my friend. Just compare Greek Cypriots with the Turks and the TCs now. Who has been more successful during the last 34 years, us or them? We might have lost a lot, but they also face consequences which are harmful for them. And we can do even more in this direction.

For your information I didn't run from anywhere during the invasion. But I don't blame the ones who did. At this point the Turks are more powerful and it was not easy for us. But what goes around comes around. Turkey is a fragile country divided between Turks and Kurds and between the followers of Ataturk and the followers of Islam. The time they will go down hard is not very far from now, and that time will be the time we will liberate our island. (unless of course they accept a fair and democratic solution by then, so we can have a real solution and a permanent peace)

So we will not capitulate. If you personally want to capitulate then cross the cease fire line and do it yourself, like Agastiniotis, Fanos Drousiotis and maybe other similar minded traitors have done

U dont blame the ones who did?? hmmm, u dont blame those who were selling nationalist fairy tales and when the first bullet was shot they runned like cowards, or went to murder women and children???

Also am astound by the way u use the word traitor. That reminds me of some people in the past that use to warn us for our behavior, those people warned us not to attempt enosis, or not to break the 1960s treaty, those people warned us that hurting TC will lead to our destruction, but
what people like u did????? The called them traitors!!!! everyone who spoke against them was a traitor. But see where we end up??? Who were the real traitors??? or shall i say, the ignorant, the naive, the idiots of the time???



Yes we ve been successful, one of the reason is the aid we received from the foreign powers, Greece, UK, USA, UN. And one of the reasons TC are left behind is due to the embargo and the isolation. I dont get ur argument, what are u trying to imply????

[Nikitas]

When you face the argument that Cyprus should undnerstand the current realities and act accordingly, ie not wait for the balance of power to change etc, you must also extend this thinking a step further. What if there is a settlement now based on these current considerations and in a few years there is a change in the balance of power, then what?

The "realists" will honor their signature or will they show "realism" and push to change what most people will regard an unfair settlement? Looking at the possibilities from this angle it is obvious that a lasting solution does not depend solely on current realities, ie the occupation and colonisation of the north and the military imbalance. A lasting settlement must be fair in itself, it is not simply a compromise to get past the present difficulty.

[Piratis]

I told u before not to mix, those cases, what has the solution to do with the fight against Nazi , or what has the war with the Persians. We are talking about negotiations now, and civilised way of solving differences.
So u suggest for us to make WAR, thats what u are implying????
Or u want us to wait for years until miracle happens??? Wait for years until the settlers are 500 000, or wait until there is no GC property left???

Realism my friend , means being patriotic, on the contrary nationalist ideas have lead us to this point.

And what is the difference between the Turkish invadors and the Italian or Persian invadors? You like some invadors better than others?

We are not going to make any war. The war was already made by Turkey in 1974 when they invaded Cyprus. Today we do not have peace, we have a cease fire in the war they started. War was their choice, not ours.

When the Italians invaded Greece they asked from the Greeks to surrender and let them occupy Greece. The Greeks said "NO" and they fought for their freedom. Was the war a choice of the Greeks because they fought the invadors?? If that is how your "logic" is then your IQ must be extremely low.

And about what "civilized way of solving differences" are you talking about? The Turks occupying 1/3rd of our lands and keeping it as hostage trying to force us and blackmail us to accept their terms, is what you called "civilized way"?

Patriotic means to defend your country even when the odds are against you. Not to betray your country when the opponent is stronger, that is treason, not patriotism.

U dont blame the ones who did?? hmmm, u dont blame those who were selling nationalist fairy tales and when the first bullet was shot they runned like cowards, or went to murder women and children???

The women and children were murdered by the Turks. Some GCs responded to the Turkish agression, but aparently for you the Turks who started (as always) the murders and the crimes are innocent, and the only guilty ones are those GCs who retaliated!

Why do you support the murder of Cypriots alekcen?
Why do you support the ethnic cleansing of Cypriots from their homeland?
Why do you support the demand of the Turks to be gifted our lands?

Also am astound by the way u use the word traitor. That reminds me of some people in the past that use to warn us for our behavior, those people warned us not to attempt enosis, or not to break the 1960s treaty, those people warned us that hurting TC will lead to our destruction, but
what people like u did????? The called them traitors!!!! everyone who spoke against them was a traitor. But see where we end up??? Who were the real traitors??? or shall i say, the ignorant, the naive, the idiots of the time???

The only thing that Cypriots fought for was for the freedom of their own island. We never attacked the TCs unless they started a conflict against us first. Of course those foreigners that imposed their rule over Cyprus (along with their local puppets) would warn us not to seek our freedom. Do you know any ruler that will not warn his slaves that if they dare to revolt they will be punished? Does this mean the slaves should not revolt to seek their rights?
Regardless of if the slaves win in their struggle, or lose and face the penalties that their rules impose on them, the patriotic ones are those who keep fighting. Not those that accept whatever the ruler says. If it was like that then nobody would ever dare to revolt.

Yes we ve been successful, one of the reason is the aid we received from the foreign powers, Greece, UK, USA, UN. And one of the reasons TC are left behind is due to the embargo and the isolation. I dont get ur argument, what are u trying to imply????

No mate, we have been successful because we know how to work and create thing. Not like the Turks who can only steal what other created and achieve nothing more. The aid we received in the first years after the invasion is minimal compared to the aid that the occupied areas continue to receive every year from Turkey. And if the "empargo" is their excuse, then how come and Turkey itself is a 3rd world country.

What I am "trying to imply" is that we didn't lose the war. We just lost one military battle, but we won many other kinds of battles against them. Therefore we are not willing to surrender to them, they didn't win the war as they dream and you think. We will continue fighting this war for as long as it takes until our island is liberated.

[Piratis]

When you face the argument that Cyprus should undnerstand the current realities and act accordingly, ie not wait for the balance of power to change etc, you must also extend this thinking a step further. What if there is a settlement now based on these current considerations and in a few years there is a change in the balance of power, then what?

The "realists" will honor their signature or will they show "realism" and push to change what most people will regard an unfair settlement? Looking at the possibilities from this angle it is obvious that a lasting solution does not depend solely on current realities, ie the occupation and colonisation of the north and the military imbalance. A lasting settlement must be fair in itself, it is not simply a compromise to get past the present difficulty.

That is a 100% correct argument Nikitas. If "realism" means that it is OK to force your will and get whatever you want with total disregard to legality, democracy and humans rights, as long as you have the power to do so, then this "realism" would work both ways.

This means we will not have a permanent peace, since whenever one side will be able to gain somehting by force then they will. Is this what the "realists" advocate? Or their "realism" works only one way?

A real solution and a permanent peace can only come if the solution is fair and just based on universal principles, such as democracy and human rights, that do not change. Anybody who is a true realist and can see further than the present and the very short term future, should be able to see this fact.