Cyprus-Forum.com

[EPSILON]

I think the time will come , in my lifetime , Im 62 , that the EU will dictate not only the number of foreign troops on its soil but also whether she would be prepared to accept non EU troops on its soil.

At your 64th bithday you will be a Greek citizen under the Greek Republic of Cyprus- then you can kill yourselve

[CopperLine]

Nikitas,
I've always found Piratis' history telling highly partial and simplistic. This is not a defence of the Ottomans, since the job of the historian is not to defend any particular people or project. Historians and nationalism should not be mixed.

That said, one of the distinctive tendencies of Ottoman rule and in fact one of the differentiaing features of the Ottoman empire - which was NOT a Turkish empire as Piratis amd other repeatedly wrongly describe it as - was that it typically inherited and continued the tax raising practices of its predecessors. This was one of the main reasons for it astonishingly rapid rise and success, and also for it long-term and seemingly irreversible decline. Thus if a region had been characterised by church administered taxes in kind then the Ottoman's would continue with that method, albeit of course the ultimate destination of taxation was different. The use of different tax farming methods, which was common in most modern empires at one time or other, was in fact a key mechanism of incorporating Christians, Jews, Muslims, as well as different so-called 'nationalities' within the empire. Who were these tax farmers in the Ottoman empire ? Turks ? No, almost never. Who then ? All those so-called 'minorities' which made the Ottoman empire a multi-national empire.

[CopperLine]

If tax raising and different sorts of levies are evidence of oppression then all empires are oppressive, Venetians included. If one is talking about direct violence - for whatever purpose - then Venetian rule was no less or no more violent than other empires of the early modern Mediterranean world.

[CopperLine]

Piratis,
It is really cheap to accuse someone of lying just because your history tells a different story from someone else. Unless you can demonstrate a wilful denial of pre-agreed facts the lying charge should be left alone. I profoundly disagree with your interpretation of the histories of the Ottoman and other empires but I do not therefore think that you are lying. I may think that you are mistaken, not possessed of the facts, ignorant of relevant factors, and so on, but accusing of you of lying is not likely to be relevant.

[Piratis]

CopperLine, here we are not talking about interpretation of history or any generalities. We are talking about a very specific document and what was written on that document. He lied about the content of the document, plain and simple.

And no, you can not accuse me that I am lying because I never do. Beyond that you can choose to ignore the facts and believe that the Ottomans were the best thing that happened to our world, or whatever else you want. You will not be the first or the last Turk who will choose to ignore the harm that you have caused and you continue causing to many other nations (what Armenian Genocide? What Kurds - maybe you mean Mountain Turks?) instead of admitting your crimes and finally changing the mentality that you carry since the middle ages.

[Bananiot]

Piratis, why then did we set up private armies, if the Akritas plan was just a peaceful way to correct things? Lissarides had one, so did Yiorkadjis and Sampson. The private armies even held exercises on mount Troodos to get their men battle ready. The official state of Cyprus supported the paramilitarist and this was never a responsible thing to do.

The Turkish nationalists rubbed their hands with joy at our stupid antics because Turkish nationalism was stronger than ours with Turkey a mere 40 miles away, but alas, we thought God was on our side, it seems.

Today we are paying the mistakes we made and if we do not accept this there is always the danger that we will repeat them. Thus, as a simple rule of thump, I turn my back on anyone that carries the patriotic banner. We have suffered enough in the hands of these bigots and we are now ready to take our future into our hands.

[alekcen]

Piratis, i doupt about ur ability to read!!!!

Please look at the Akritas plan carefully and tell me in brief what it describe??http://www.atcanews.org/archive/akritas_plan.pdf


I didnt lie my friend. Just read carefully what the plan says plain and simple!!! If u dont think that by trying to disolve the 1960s treaty , and bringing Enosis, u are not responsible for all the trouble that followed , then my friend , we open a whole new issue.

A part from Akritas plan : In the event of the clashes becoming more general or general we must be ready to proceed with the actions described in (a) to (b), including the immediate declaration of Enosis, because then there would be no reason to wait nor room for diplomatic action.

) In the event of instinctive violent Turkish reactions, if our counter-attacks are not immediate, we run the risk effacing panic in the Greeks in the towns and thus losing substantial vital areas, while, on the other hand, an immediate show of our strength may bring the Turks to their senses and confine their actions to sporadic insignificant acts, and




) In the event of a planned or staged Turkish attack, it is imperative to overcome it by force in the shortest possible time, because if we succeed in gaining command of the situation (in one or two days), no outside, intervention would be either justified or possible



Pleasre read carefully and tell me what all these imply!!!! What did u expected for the plan to say " Eliminate all Turks" , rather than saying it this way, they imply it.


So u justify this plan that tried to birng enosis, and broke the 1960s constitution????? We signed an agreement and we ought to try atleast to make it work.


Read it again please. And also i dont accuse u of lying. Lets not leave ingorance rule our life.

[Oracle]

Why in 2008, are we still arguing whether Turkey has any right to be sitting in Cyprus ...

... in 1955, Britain, in order to improve its tactical position, invited Turkey to participate in the Conferences on the future of the island – in spite of the fact that in 1878, 1914, 1920 and 1923 Turkey had progressively lost and finally given up its sovereignty over the island. Council of Europe


Turkey has ZERO right to be in Cyprus and the EU ....

[Kifeas]

Piratis, i doupt about ur ability to read!!!!

Please look at the Akritas plan carefully and tell me in brief what it describe??http://www.atcanews.org/archive/akritas_plan.pdf


I didnt lie my friend. Just read carefully what the plan says plain and simple!!! If u dont think that by trying to disolve the 1960s treaty , and bringing Enosis, u are not responsible for all the trouble that followed , then my friend , we open a whole new issue.

A part from Akritas plan : In the event of the clashes becoming more general or general we must be ready to proceed with the actions described in (a) to (b), including the immediate declaration of Enosis, because then there would be no reason to wait nor room for diplomatic action.

) In the event of instinctive violent Turkish reactions, if our counter-attacks are not immediate, we run the risk effacing panic in the Greeks in the towns and thus losing substantial vital areas, while, on the other hand, an immediate show of our strength may bring the Turks to their senses and confine their actions to sporadic insignificant acts, and




) In the event of a planned or staged Turkish attack, it is imperative to overcome it by force in the shortest possible time, because if we succeed in gaining command of the situation (in one or two days), no outside, intervention would be either justified or possible



Pleasre read carefully and tell me what all these imply!!!! What did u expected for the plan to say " Eliminate all Turks" , rather than saying it this way, they imply it.


So u justify this plan that tried to birng enosis, and broke the 1960s constitution????? We signed an agreement and we ought to try atleast to make it work.


Read it again please. And also i dont accuse u of lying. Lets not leave ingorance rule our life.

Re Karagiozi, you didn't find another source to quote for the Akritas plan, and you went straight from the most extremist Turkish propaganda website, and you come here to play the know-it-all wizard? No doubt you have been playing the Turkish propaganda card, since the first day you appeared in this forum. At least you could have gone to some more neutral website, to use as your source, and there at least you may have also learnt something more objective to come here and talk about, but since you are a sciolist that has learned not even half the truth, you are not even aware of its existence.

Here you are, but then at least explain to us why you have claimed in this forum that the Akritas plan was a plan for the ethnic cleansing of the Turkish Cypriots. Where do you see in the text such a claim? Oh, I forgot, you red that too, in the “atca” website! Karagiozi!

[Bananiot]

We could have drugged the Turkish Cypriots into accept enosis, we did not have to exterminate them. Yiorkadjis and Sampson were krypto Turks really and Papadopoulos wanted a four lane road to connect the two Turkish Cypriot villages.

Why did Papadopoulos want to fill a fire engine with petrol? Can someone remind us?