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NAME N SHAME DEVELOPERS

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Postby Sega » Sun Aug 24, 2008 12:57 pm

Feisty wrote:
Free Spirit wrote:What I said was that part way through construction the developer/builder very often takes out a re-mortgage using your property/land as surity and this is the real reason why most people do not get their title deeds because although the corrupt solicitor has completed on the deal and given your cash to the builder/developer, the bank are holding your deeds to fund the buiders next project.
In one village where we were considering a house purchase the owners only had the deeds to the land.


Whilst I don't dispute there is a problem with deeds, please get your facts right.
A developer cannot re-mortgage or even mortgage a property if it has been sold, only the land.
If an owner has deeds to the land the developer cannot re-mortgage any part of it.


Does this developer have to pay the land off before you get the title deeds? Surely this would pose some problem.
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Postby Feisty » Sun Aug 24, 2008 1:02 pm

I have no idea.
I'm not a lawyer though the obvious answer would depend on a number of variables eg
Has the developer even mortgaged the land?
If you have a mortgage yourself on the land/property it's highly likely your bank will hold the deeds.
Any amount of other legal variables.

I would imagine that there are two sets of deeds, possibly joined together at some point, which would probably account for someone havving just the deeds to the land.
Land title deeds obviously cannot include the property built on the land as there is usually none there at the point of sale.
Property deeds cannot be issued until the property/development has been inspected after completion to ensure it complies with planning permission.
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Postby Feisty » Sun Aug 24, 2008 3:16 pm

The difficult property title deed route

By Antonis Loizou, FRICS
Antonis Loizou & Associates Ltd
Chartered Surveyors
Property Valuers - Project Managers

28 June 2007

So that you can appreciate the long and difficult way from the completion of a building, to the issue of the property title deeds, we hereby submit the procedure that it is required. For each step we hereby provide the legal requirement for the issue of a permit and the actual time taken.

• Application for town planning permit - This is the most important permit for the development. It sets out what you can build, the use, the access, the ceeding of part of your property to the public use, the layout/appearance of a building, the density, height, coverage etc. Legal time required for a reply is 3 months, but actual time 6-9 months and this provided there are no problem.

• Building Permit – The building permit follows the issue of the planning permit. It checks the structural stability of the building, the provision of public services, health and safety, the fire adequacy of the building, sewage and drainage etc. No legal requirement for its issue. Should be received 3-4 months, but usual time especially if in the District Office 12-18 months.

• Once the building is completed you must invite the Municipality (if a Municipal area) or the District Office/Town Planning Department (if not) in order to check, whether what you have built is in accord with the two previous permits. Time for inspection from date of invitation should be 1-2 months, actual time 4-6 months.

• Cover Permits – Because, inevitably, no building is erected 100% in accord with its permits, but minor or not changes are made or additions (e.g. a pool, a car-port etc) then you must start all over again. That, is a new application for a town planning permit (called a cover permit) a new application for a new building permit (called a cover building permit) with the possibility of these two new permits requiring another 1 year or so.

• Once the building is O.K., you must seek the certificate of final approval. The supervising technician will make up his report, submit it to the local civil engineer, the engineer will then submit it to the building committee, the minutes must be typed, corrected and approved and when this is done, the committee must sign. Time from the O.K. until you actually get the certificate in your hand 6-18 months – always provided there is no major problem with the building.

• Then you must submit what is called a division permit. A clear and straightforward procedure but, yes, it will take another 6 months.

• Then, once this is issued, you will need a certificate of approval of the division permit (again through the engineer, Building Committee, minutes etc etc) another 6 months at best.

• Once you receive the previous last permit then you can apply to the Lands Office for registration and issue a title. Normal time needed is between 12-30 months depending on the difficulties.

• If the project which your property forms part is large enough, it will also require an environmental study and thus your time is elongated by another 6-8 months (legal time for a reply 30 days).

Total time from start to completion around 8-10 years or time after completion to deed approximately 5-7 years.

This time could be reduced to 50% of the total, if the permits are privatized i.e. the designer (architect/engineer) to bear the responsibility that he is designing within the regulations and he must certify at the end that the developer has built in accord with the permits. The designer must have a Bank/Insurance guarantee of at least CYP500.000, so if he does not do his job right, he will have to pay the authority for the loses, in addition loosing his architect/engineer permit. This could be done for small buildings, on an experimental basis, up to the extent of 5.000 sq.mts. Alternatively and because we feel that the longest delays are those after the building permit issue, all the relevant certificates to be issued by the supervising or any other architect/engineer (with the same CYP500.000 guarantee and responsibility). The authorities to keep a supervising role and spot checking.

If this adopted for an experimental period of 1-2 years, at least for those buildings with a building permit issued up to the year 31.12.2005, it will cover the thousands of backload applications, leaving the authorities to make a fresh start.

Surely there will be cover ups and the difficulties and including the possibility that the non-public, supervising architect/engineer, might turn a building e.g. here and there, but what is the target? If the problem is to be solved this is the only way. After all it is the authorities fault for such delays as is the numerous illegal acts by the applicants.

Assuming that there are delayed 20.000 housing units (let alone the others) pending/in the process of having their titles being issued, the transfer fees that the Government will collect once the deeds are issued is expected to exceed CYP140 mil., a good income for the state, but more importantly, it will solve thousands of problems created against the buyers.

Privatization is the name of the game and we have been pressing the Government for the last 8 years to allow this, as it has allowed in the past (with the same reservations) for the private land demarcation and private property valuations on behalf of public authorities. It is very difficult however to convince the civil/Municipal employees to let go some of their despotic authority. Is not an easy thing. Lets keep our fingers cross because this privatization process is already happening to a small extent for other activities.

www.aloizou.com.cy

Copyright © 2006 Antonis Loizou & Associates Ltd All rights reserved
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Postby pantheman » Sun Aug 24, 2008 5:21 pm

Sega wrote:
Feisty wrote:
Free Spirit wrote:What I said was that part way through construction the developer/builder very often takes out a re-mortgage using your property/land as surity and this is the real reason why most people do not get their title deeds because although the corrupt solicitor has completed on the deal and given your cash to the builder/developer, the bank are holding your deeds to fund the buiders next project.
In one village where we were considering a house purchase the owners only had the deeds to the land.


Whilst I don't dispute there is a problem with deeds, please get your facts right.
A developer cannot re-mortgage or even mortgage a property if it has been sold, only the land.
If an owner has deeds to the land the developer cannot re-mortgage any part of it.


Does this developer have to pay the land off before you get the title deeds? Surely this would pose some problem.


If a developer takes out a mortgage on the land your property is going to be built on then the bank owns the land. In the case of the devloper going bust the money is till owed to the bank.

Now, if he has taken out the mortgage before he has sold then the bank has first charge on the land. And usually this is when the mortgage is taken out.

if after all the properties have been sold he defaults then if the owners want there title deeds they all have to club together and pay the mortgage off before the bank will release the title for sub dividing.

Taking out mortgages after proprties have been sold is more difficult and as the land has an encumbrance at this stage (ie the sales contracts already lodged at the land regisitry) then the bank will get second charge after the bank that lent the money for the property purchase in the first place.

The reason there is a time lag of title deed issuing is as detailed in feistys post above. The fact that the developer owes money is another added delay.

Thats basically it.
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Postby Maynard23 » Sun Aug 24, 2008 6:43 pm

The gentleman who first focused attention on this particular problem is apparently camped out in the rain as a result of his conduct.

I have heard rumours that he is in the process of selling camp-sites alongside him, quite an enterprising chap really, he has also approached Miltiades enquiring if he could be supplied with the necessary accoutrements required for the vending of "Hot Dogs" in the vicinity.

Perhaps he will negotiate with the Turks up at the Apostolos Andreas for a regular supply of "Donkey Meat", that is of course, if they have not eaten all the Donkeys themselves, seems like they are a bit reluctant to feed them unless they are paid for the privilage of worshippers visiting their own country.

Funny old world, it would make you laugh if it didn't make you cry. :lol: :cry: IMHO (well I'll be dogged !)
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Postby Feisty » Sun Aug 24, 2008 7:15 pm

At least Conor is man enough to stand up for himself and his family.
You just throw out insults and threats from behind a nickname.
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Postby Maynard23 » Sun Aug 24, 2008 7:27 pm

Feisty wrote:At least Conor is man enough to stand up for himself and his family.
You just throw out insults and threats from behind a nickname.



Actually my dear, I was thinking of inviting you out for a meal, I quite like your sense of humour and I am sure we would get on famously.
I can't promise to compete with the trick performed by Bubbles's elephant, I don't like rolls you see, I much prefer a bit of crumpet.
Perhaps I could slip something under the table which might be of interest to you, who knows, we might even end up inseparable.

Incidentally, I do not have a nick-name. IMHO (well I'll be dogged !) :lol: :lol:
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Postby Feisty » Sun Aug 24, 2008 7:49 pm

Sorry, I'm very fussy about the men with which I socialise and your previous demeanour on this board would ensure I gave you a very wide berth.
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Postby Maynard23 » Sun Aug 24, 2008 8:12 pm

Feisty wrote:Sorry, I'm very fussy about the men with which I socialise and your previous demeanour on this board would ensure I gave you a very wide berth.


I do have a berth on my yacht and it is quite wide, I would be delighted to entertain you on board, I confess that I am something of a spoiled brat and your instant rebuff to my invitation is something which is quite unfamiliar to me.
Perhaps you will consider the offer with a little more consideration now that I have revealed my capacity for self assessment.
Kindly give the matter your most earnest consideration, let us not allow a slight difference of opinion to mar the union of Angels such as we are. :lol: :lol: (I'll leave out the "well I'll be dogged" bit even), what do you think ?. :lol: :lol:
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Postby Free Spirit » Sun Aug 24, 2008 10:47 pm

Sega wrote:
Feisty wrote:
Free Spirit wrote:What I said was that part way through construction the developer/builder very often takes out a re-mortgage using your property/land as surity and this is the real reason why most people do not get their title deeds because although the corrupt solicitor has completed on the deal and given your cash to the builder/developer, the bank are holding your deeds to fund the buiders next project.
In one village where we were considering a house purchase the owners only had the deeds to the land.


Whilst I don't dispute there is a problem with deeds, please get your facts right.
A developer cannot re-mortgage or even mortgage a property if it has been sold, only the land.
If an owner has deeds to the land the developer cannot re-mortgage any part of it.


Does this developer have to pay the land off before you get the title deeds? Surely this would pose some problem.

You've missed the point Fiesty he re-mortgages before final completion, there are so many tricks/dodgy activities going on.
If this was not so how come there is such a variance in time regarding different owners getting their title deeds? If the time was as it has been stated around 3 years then ask yourself why after 15 years has our friend still not been able to secure the release of her title deeds; maybe they're funding the new marina.
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