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What If ....

How can we solve it? (keep it civilized)

Postby humanist » Sat Aug 23, 2008 10:13 pm

Cem
The TCs have been made dependent on Turkey on purpose.


The TC's also have contact with EUrope now and if they wish to stop their dependency on Turkey they can use the RoC to stop that by working together with Christofias to get out of that.

However, Zan and VP put forward great arguments that there is no, problems faced by TC's because maa Turka is looking afer you guys all of fairly and equally.

Frankly am getting over your elitist attitude that so long as TCs are doing alright who cares about settlers.

For fuck sakes when I was there I went to the toilet @ Apostolos Andreas and the woman there was begging for pitttence to feed her children. Wake up you selfish arseholes.
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Postby Cem » Sun Aug 24, 2008 11:21 am

humanist wrote:Cem
The TCs have been made dependent on Turkey on purpose.


The TC's also have contact with EUrope now and if they wish to stop their dependency on Turkey they can use the RoC to stop that by working together with Christofias to get out of that.

However, Zan and VP put forward great arguments that there is no, problems faced by TC's because maa Turka is looking afer you guys all of fairly and equally.

Frankly am getting over your elitist attitude that so long as TCs are doing alright who cares about settlers.

For fuck sakes when I was there I went to the toilet @ Apostolos Andreas and the woman there was begging for pitttence to feed her children. Wake up you selfish arseholes.


Humanist, you, a GC, telling me this by playing on the sensitivity ?

Tell this to your fellow GCs who in the event of a solution to their liking, and let alone leaving one settler on the island,they would be cheerfully be deporting their children born here, even those married with TCs, even TCs themselves back to Turkey.

So you are deeply moved by this beggar woman at Apostolos Andreas , is it Tc's fault, that she is there ? Or is it due to joint work of Turkey and the stupid TC government here who don't care about letting anybody from Turkey in.

There are millions like that in major urban centers in Turkey.
At every traffic light in Istanbul, there are gangs of small kids swarming over the stopping cars, trying to sell handkerchiefs, bottles of water, trying to wipe the windshields with rags despite the drivers' attempting to shoo them away.

Now, the same thing starts happening in the north and you are moved by the plea of that settler woman because.. ahem.. you are a "humanist" and put the blame of her tragedy on TCs.

What about your fellow GCs who post here about using "Easykill" for cockroaches for getting rid of turks on the island ? As a humanitarian, have you objected to that with the same vigour ?

What about your fellow GCs who even blame our ancestors for what they did and who claim that TCs owe their existence on the island to Ottoman's bloodbath of 1571 conquest and thus TCs should have no right to speak up for themselves?

To the jerks who make that claim:

1) What would you expect us to do then ? Make a time travel centuries back and beg the Ottoman sultan not to deport turkish settlers to Cyprus ?
2) In addition to turks, Ottoman empire had greek, serbs , albanians, bosnians, armenians and assyrians as subjects. It is quite probable that in the armada that ravaged Cyprus in 1571, there were also soldiers from this ethnic groups as well.
3) If every community should be deported back regardless of their centuries of existence in some place just because their ancestors came there as a result of an invasion, then implementing this logic worldwide, one would find the entire world map radically changing today as hundreds of millions of people would be uprooted and shipped back to where they come from.
Starting with the Americans as we all know, I guess, who were the true owners of the entire American continent.
Then negroes would be shipped back to where they (were forced) to come from including potential next U.S president Barack Obama.

What about that "scientific" woman of yours-a frequent poster here, who is openly preaching greek cypriot supremacy and hate-mongering against the TCs by calling us "scum", showing blatant contempt for our culture ?

Do you think she, along with many others, would give a rats' ass about the plea of the settlers in the north ?
The humanism is of the GCs is as plausible as their other utterances: farfetched.
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Postby Oracle » Sun Aug 24, 2008 11:45 am

Cem wrote:
Oracle wrote:
Cem wrote:
CopperLine wrote:In the first place it is highly highly improbable that the TC community or its leadership would ask Turkey to leave. As many people have already pointed out the dependency - economic in particular - that has developed over the decades is a massive disincentive to issuing such a call. This is especially the case in the absence of a worked-out viable alternative (itself likely to be part of a negotiated comprehensive settlement).

Secondly, issuing such a call depends for its credibility on it arising from a more or less solid social base. What is that social base ? Sure, an inividual here or an 'ultra' party there can make this call and it will be immediately discounted as 'pissing in the wind'. Which section of TC society (supported by which section of GC society) is this call going to come from ? Again people have already noted on this Forum how TCs are in a numerical minority even in northern Cyprus and are on a demographic downward slope both in absolute and relative terms.

Third, of course is the form or content in which such a call would be framed. For example, is this a straight withdrawal or is it timetabled ? Is it without pre-conditions or is it subject to fulfilment of other requirements ? And so on.

Fourth, even if TCs made such a call the question of under what auspices such an action would take place is raised. That is to say, is this under UN, EU, OSCE, bi-ltaeral, etc auspices and how does it relate to the wider Cyprus negotiations.


Whilst I'm all for TC society making such calls it is nevertheless little more than wishful thinking if we do not consider the concrete reality that TCs have very little power in the situation.


Very good post CopperLine, can't help not agreeing with it.
I for one, had stressed the "economic dependency" issue many times, but for some "deaf" ears, it went unheeded.


I was the first to remark that was a good post. Others then posted similarly.

However, you are the only one who continued on from that to make a loaded comment.
It has made me wonder if we are interpreting this "anthology" of CopperLine's in the same way.

Cem, would you, in a few sentences, post your personal take-home message from Copperline's post ....

We can compare it with what I understood :)

Again I got caught in the spider web of Stella...
The one, who is always... one step ahead of turks..
Use search facility to find my posts here and you will see (am afraid I am bit lazy to do that for you)...
Still, to answer your "diggings" :
For the first paragraph of CL, I am one of the people he mentioned stressing the economic dependency-that is why Tcs can not simply ask Turkey to withdraw fro Cy.
For his second paragraph concerning having a solid social base, I have not touched upon the issue earlier, but I agree with him for simply those segments of Tc society daring to ask this are still "tiny" compared to majority which constitute the electorate base of the two biggest parties ,namely, UBP and CTP. On the other hand, I have exclusively stressed the weight and importance of settlers votes in TRNC's political agenda implying that such a motion would be very unlikely to pass without their approval. I had also pointed out that the real talks behind the scenes are going on not between Xtofias and Talat but between E.U and Turkey (even the USA).
As for the calendar of a withdrawal scheme, I had made my point in agreeing with "Kofi" Kikapu plan in the event of a solution (4000 troops per year).
For the 4th, I think it should be under the auspices of both U.N, E.U and the U.S.A .
While many times I stressed the inability of TC people in taking such draconian measures by themselves such as asking Turkey to withdraw, you, along with some other people, on the other hand, have always accused the TCs of willful complicity with Turkey.
As if everything depended exclusively on their will.
The TCs have been made dependent on Turkey on purpose.
Read my answer to Nikita's post pls.
BTW, by having an answer for every post, it looks like you want to dominate this forum not only in the CyProb area but also in the chat area as well (having seen your posts there too).
Then, I asked myself why this dear Stella have not condescended to reply to my inquiry about the aquarium stores in Cyprus posted in that area.
Since, you always want to be "one step ahead of turks"..


I did not post on your thread requesting aquarium accessories, because I do not approve of keeping fish ... except in size-able outdoor ponds.

Living in a "glass bowl" may be deemed suitable by the Turks, for keeping their pets, the "TC"s, within ....
.... but such practices are inhumane for fish.
:lol:
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Postby Cem » Sun Aug 24, 2008 11:58 am

Oracle wrote:
Cem wrote:
Oracle wrote:
Cem wrote:
CopperLine wrote:In the first place it is highly highly improbable that the TC community or its leadership would ask Turkey to leave. As many people have already pointed out the dependency - economic in particular - that has developed over the decades is a massive disincentive to issuing such a call. This is especially the case in the absence of a worked-out viable alternative (itself likely to be part of a negotiated comprehensive settlement).

Secondly, issuing such a call depends for its credibility on it arising from a more or less solid social base. What is that social base ? Sure, an inividual here or an 'ultra' party there can make this call and it will be immediately discounted as 'pissing in the wind'. Which section of TC society (supported by which section of GC society) is this call going to come from ? Again people have already noted on this Forum how TCs are in a numerical minority even in northern Cyprus and are on a demographic downward slope both in absolute and relative terms.

Third, of course is the form or content in which such a call would be framed. For example, is this a straight withdrawal or is it timetabled ? Is it without pre-conditions or is it subject to fulfilment of other requirements ? And so on.

Fourth, even if TCs made such a call the question of under what auspices such an action would take place is raised. That is to say, is this under UN, EU, OSCE, bi-ltaeral, etc auspices and how does it relate to the wider Cyprus negotiations.


Whilst I'm all for TC society making such calls it is nevertheless little more than wishful thinking if we do not consider the concrete reality that TCs have very little power in the situation.


Very good post CopperLine, can't help not agreeing with it.
I for one, had stressed the "economic dependency" issue many times, but for some "deaf" ears, it went unheeded.


I was the first to remark that was a good post. Others then posted similarly.

However, you are the only one who continued on from that to make a loaded comment.
It has made me wonder if we are interpreting this "anthology" of CopperLine's in the same way.

Cem, would you, in a few sentences, post your personal take-home message from Copperline's post ....

We can compare it with what I understood :)

Again I got caught in the spider web of Stella...
The one, who is always... one step ahead of turks..
Use search facility to find my posts here and you will see (am afraid I am bit lazy to do that for you)...
Still, to answer your "diggings" :
For the first paragraph of CL, I am one of the people he mentioned stressing the economic dependency-that is why Tcs can not simply ask Turkey to withdraw fro Cy.
For his second paragraph concerning having a solid social base, I have not touched upon the issue earlier, but I agree with him for simply those segments of Tc society daring to ask this are still "tiny" compared to majority which constitute the electorate base of the two biggest parties ,namely, UBP and CTP. On the other hand, I have exclusively stressed the weight and importance of settlers votes in TRNC's political agenda implying that such a motion would be very unlikely to pass without their approval. I had also pointed out that the real talks behind the scenes are going on not between Xtofias and Talat but between E.U and Turkey (even the USA).
As for the calendar of a withdrawal scheme, I had made my point in agreeing with "Kofi" Kikapu plan in the event of a solution (4000 troops per year).
For the 4th, I think it should be under the auspices of both U.N, E.U and the U.S.A .
While many times I stressed the inability of TC people in taking such draconian measures by themselves such as asking Turkey to withdraw, you, along with some other people, on the other hand, have always accused the TCs of willful complicity with Turkey.
As if everything depended exclusively on their will.
The TCs have been made dependent on Turkey on purpose.
Read my answer to Nikita's post pls.
BTW, by having an answer for every post, it looks like you want to dominate this forum not only in the CyProb area but also in the chat area as well (having seen your posts there too).
Then, I asked myself why this dear Stella have not condescended to reply to my inquiry about the aquarium stores in Cyprus posted in that area.
Since, you always want to be "one step ahead of turks"..


I did not post on your thread requesting aquarium accessories, because I do not approve of keeping fish ... except in size-able outdoor ponds.

Living in a "glass bowl" may be deemed suitable by the Turks, for keeping their pets, the "TC"s, within ....
.... but such practices are inhumane for fish.
:lol:


A fish can live well in glass bowl called aquarium if it has enough size to contain the fish and right equipment to sustain their life such as air pump, filter, appropriate flora and a few medication.. to start with....
There is way big difference between a glass bowl and a fully equipped sizeable aquarium...
But a fish can not live outside.... ahem... "of glas bowl"....
You know what I mean... :lol:
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Postby Oracle » Sun Aug 24, 2008 12:09 pm

Cem wrote:
Oracle wrote:
Cem wrote: .... Then, I asked myself why this dear Stella have not condescended to reply to my inquiry about the aquarium stores in Cyprus posted in that area.
Since, you always want to be "one step ahead of turks"..


I did not post on your thread requesting aquarium accessories, because I do not approve of keeping fish ... except in size-able outdoor ponds.

Living in a "glass bowl" may be deemed suitable by the Turks, for keeping their pets, the "TC"s, within ....
.... but such practices are inhumane for fish.
:lol:


A fish can live well in glass bowl called aquarium if it has enough size to contain the fish and right equipment to sustain their life such as air pump, filter, appropriate flora and a few medication.. to start with....
There is way big difference between a glass bowl and a fully equipped sizeable aquarium...
But a fish can not live outside.... ahem... "of glas bowl"....
You know what I mean... :lol:


So the Turks may promise expansion from your present "glass bowl" to an "aquarium" accessorised with all your requirements .... so you need never evolve further and be able to leave your "glass cage" ... :lol:

Whereas we have already evolved from being fish, and developed legs and lungs ..... And now we can say ....

Eleftheria i thanatos ......... Ελευθερία ή θάνατος :wink:

Enjoy stagnation in your glass bowl prison ....
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Postby Cem » Sun Aug 24, 2008 7:49 pm

Oracle wrote:
Cem wrote:
Oracle wrote:
Cem wrote: ....
A fish can live well in glass bowl called aquarium if it has enough size to contain the fish and right equipment to sustain their life such as air pump, filter, appropriate flora and a few medication.. to start with....
There is way big difference between a glass bowl and a fully equipped sizeable aquarium...
But a fish can not live outside.... ahem... "of glas bowl"....
You know what I mean... :lol:


So the Turks may promise expansion from your present "glass bowl" to an "aquarium" accessorised with all your requirements .... so you need never evolve further and be able to leave your "glass cage" ... :lol:

Whereas we have already evolved from being fish, and developed legs and lungs ..... And now we can say ....

Eleftheria i thanatos ......... Ελευθερία ή θάνατος :wink:

Enjoy stagnation in your glass bowl prison ....


Eleftheria i thanatos (GR) =Freedom or Death (EN) = Ya Istiklal ya Ölüm (TR).
Again, if the tank is overfilled and uncovered, some fish may jump out seeking Eleftheria and find Thanatos instead.
You may have evolved into developing lungs and legs, but I am afraid we won't have time to evolve if we follow your way...
Better stay in the tank and not try Eleftheria O-Rattle style..
:wink:
Since we know your version of Eleftheria and what it means for us..
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Postby Oracle » Sun Aug 24, 2008 7:56 pm

Cem wrote:
Oracle wrote:
Cem wrote: ....
A fish can live well in glass bowl called aquarium if it has enough size to contain the fish and right equipment to sustain their life such as air pump, filter, appropriate flora and a few medication.. to start with....
There is way big difference between a glass bowl and a fully equipped sizeable aquarium...
But a fish can not live outside.... ahem... "of glas bowl"....
You know what I mean... :lol:


So the Turks may promise expansion from your present "glass bowl" to an "aquarium" accessorised with all your requirements .... so you need never evolve further and be able to leave your "glass cage" ... :lol:

Whereas we have already evolved from being fish, and developed legs and lungs ..... And now we can say ....

Eleftheria i thanatos ......... Ελευθερία ή θάνατος :wink:

Enjoy stagnation in your glass bowl prison ....


Eleftheria i thanatos (GR) =Freedom or Death (EN) = Ya Istiklal ya Ölüm (TR).
Again, if the tank is overfilled and uncovered, some fish may jump out seeking Eleftheria and find Thanatos instead.
You may have evolved into developing lungs and legs, but I am afraid we won't have time to evolve if we follow your way...
Better stay in the tank and not try Eleftheria O-Rattle style..
:wink:
Since we know your version of Eleftheria and what it means for us..


Read my signature .....

"Those willing to sacrifice liberty for security deserve neither, and will lose both." ... Franklin
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Postby Cem » Mon Aug 25, 2008 11:55 am

Oracle wrote:

Read my signature .....

"Those willing to sacrifice liberty for security deserve neither, and will lose both." ... Franklin


O-Rattle,

Which Franklin said this, Aretha Franklin or Benjamin Franklin ?

Anyway, lucky fellows, not to have lived in Cyprus particularly during "sweet" Sixties.
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