Cyprus-Forum.com

[CopperLine]

Piratis
What evidence do you have to support your claim that "similarly most Turks of today think it is fine to ethnically cleanse Greek Cypriots and take their lands because Greek Cypriots are "evil" and need to be punished." ?

You made this up.

I've seen claims by Turkish leaders that they think that Cyprus should be Turkish; I've read claims by Turkish leaders that they think that taking Cyprus for geo-political or strategic reasons is necessary; I'd acknowledge (but not agree) that Turkish leaders have said that continuing intervention is necessary to protect TCs. But I have never heard anyone claim that Turkish leaders were motivated by a need to "punish" GCs thorugh 'ethnic cleansing' because they were "evil". That is make-believe nonsense.

We've got more than enough well-recorded motivations to be trying to untangle without you introducing some other bonkers notions.

[EPSILON]

Piratis
What evidence do you have to support your claim that "similarly most Turks of today think it is fine to ethnically cleanse Greek Cypriots and take their lands because Greek Cypriots are "evil" and need to be punished." ?

You made this up.

I've seen claims by Turkish leaders that they think that Cyprus should be Turkish; I've read claims by Turkish leaders that they think that taking Cyprus for geo-political or strategic reasons is necessary; I'd acknowledge (but not agree) that Turkish leaders have said that continuing intervention is necessary to protect TCs. But I have never heard anyone claim that Turkish leaders were motivated by a need to "punish" GCs thorugh 'ethnic cleansing' because they were "evil". That is make-believe nonsense.

We've got more than enough well-recorded motivations to be trying to untangle without you introducing some other bonkers notions.

Istanbul. Tenedos, Imbros, Turkey's state was also never said something about evil etc.But they just behaved like this was the case

[Piratis]

Piratis
What evidence do you have to support your claim that "similarly most Turks of today think it is fine to ethnically cleanse Greek Cypriots and take their lands because Greek Cypriots are "evil" and need to be punished." ?

You made this up.

I've seen claims by Turkish leaders that they think that Cyprus should be Turkish; I've read claims by Turkish leaders that they think that taking Cyprus for geo-political or strategic reasons is necessary; I'd acknowledge (but not agree) that Turkish leaders have said that continuing intervention is necessary to protect TCs. But I have never heard anyone claim that Turkish leaders were motivated by a need to "punish" GCs thorugh 'ethnic cleansing' because they were "evil". That is make-believe nonsense.

We've got more than enough well-recorded motivations to be trying to untangle without you introducing some other bonkers notions.

Copperline, why do you like to dispute even the most obvious things?

Isn't it true that most Turks today consider north Cyprus to be Turkish, and they have even named it as "Turkish republic of northern Cyprus"?

And maybe they didn't say openly "Greek Cypriots are evil and we will punish them", but isn't all there propaganda pointing to this exact thing? Trying to prove how bad and evil Greek Cypriots so to excuse the ethnic cleansing and their illegal occupation?

If you dispute what I say then go ask in Turkey any Turk the question: "Is north Cyprus Turkish?", and I bet you that most of the answers you will get will be "yes".

Then ask them: "But how can it be Turkish, when the great majority of the native population has been Greek for 1000s of years?" The answer you will get will be somehting in the lines of: "Greek Cypriots are ........ (fill the gap with the usual Turkish propaganda painting GCs as the evil monsters) so we had to protect the innocent Turkish Cypriots so now north Cyprus is Turkish"

Do you deny that this is the racist way that the average Turk thinks?

[CopperLine]

Piratis,
I'll translate your reply for those who haven't followed the twists and turns :

'No I don't have a jot of evidence for my previous claim that Turks wanted to punish GCs for being evil, but if you conducted a hypothetical survey amongst a hypothetical population they would answer in this hypothetical way. So no I don't have any evidence for what was a brute and categorical description of people, but if I make some cock and bull story up then that will do instead.' No it won't.

Do you deny that this is the racist way that the average Turk thinks?

Apart from the cheap trick of making this a leading question - when are you going to stop beating your wife Piratis, for example ? - the answer to the question is no I do not think that the average Turk -whatever/whoever that may be - racially hates GCs.

[CopperLine]

Epsilon,
Your examples are not about expansionism, they are about demarcation (Tenedos and Imbros) and homogenisation (Istanbul) I agree that they were instances of brutality, but this particular discussion was about countering the basically wrong description of Turkey as having an expansionist politics : it hasn't and it doesn't.

[Piratis]

CopperLine, I will translate what you say:

"Yes, I know that almost every Turk considers north Cyprus as being Turkish and they support the racist ethnic cleansing of Greek Cypriots from their lands which is what was necessary to create this 'Turkish Cyprus', but I will try to play word games and see if I can convince anybody for the contrary" No you don't.

[CopperLine]

Piratis
The game that you play - inventing stories and guessing 'evidence' - is as easy to play as it is pointless.

Incidentally the answer to the thread question should be 'No'. Agreed ?

[Piratis]

CopperLine, I am not inventing anything. You are inventing things when you dispute the obvious, that the average Turk considers north Cyprus as being Turkish and supports the racist ethnic cleansing that was required in order to archive this artificial Turkification of the north part of Cyprus.

The answer to the thread question is 'no'. I hope those that believe that is 'no' show this with actions also, not say one thing but support the exact opposide kind of actions.

[GG]

Don't you all get bored of these conversations?

This forum needs some fun.

[Viewpoint]

There are different levels of racism.

Somebody can dislik people of a specific race and we might not even know he does if he is not honest enough to say it and admit it. Such kind of racism is condemned, but it is not a crime. People are free to like or dislike whoever they want.

Then there is another level of racism, where those people can discriminate against people from the races they dislike, and many such discriminations are illegal and punishable in most countries.

The 3rd and worst kind of racism is the one where the racists not only dislike specific races, not only they descriminate against them, but they directly go and violate their most basic human rights committing crimes against them. Such kind of racism is what we have seen by the KKK in the USA, the Nazis in Germany and in Turkey today, to say a few examples.

During Hitler most Germans were brainwashed and actually accepted his racist theories. The Germans, the majority of them, where therefore racists, and the world had to fight against them. This doesn't mean those Germans where born racists and bad. They were made like this through brainwashing and propaganda. Soon after the end of WWII when the Nazi propaganda was over, they realized their mistake and in Germany today the problem of racism is not any worst than any other place in the world, since racism is not something which is promoted by the state anymore.

Turkey today has the same problem that Nazi Germany had during Hitler. Turkey is ruled by a bunch of criminal Nazi army officers who have brainwashed their people and made most of them to accept their racist mentality. Just like for most Germans during Hitler it was fine to jail the Jews because through some propaganda they convinced them that Jews are evil and they have to be punished, similarly most Turks of today think it is fine to ethnically cleanse Greek Cypriots and take their lands because Greek Cypriots are "evil" and need to be punished.

Piratis can you clarify whether GCs displayed racisim towards TCs during 1963 to 1974?