Cyprus-Forum.com

[Kikapu]

To be honest I'd not overstate Erdogan's comments in relation to 'Morfou being off the table'. He is a supreme politician with hypocrisy being his middle name. What he says today he'll contradict tomorrow; what he promises tomorrow he'll have conveniently forgotten the following day. His (and Gul's) modus operandi is much more akin to the spinsters of new labour or the sheer mendacity of Kissinger and Cheney than the puritanical crypto-islamists that they're usually portrayed as.

They're after power and holding power. If selling Cyprus today suits them they'll sell it, just like they'd sell their grandmothers. If saying today that they 'll keep Cyprus no matter what, it is because it suits them today. Tomorrow is another day, another constituency to speak to and another interest to manipulate.

No arguments from me regarding your above statement CopperLine.!

[Tim Drayton]

Then I read a comment by an obviously well-informed and intelligent Greek Cypriot claiming that not a single Turkish Cypriot wants or dares to speak up and defend Cypriot interests. This is what psychologists call denial. Now, if I could only understand the reason for this denial I might gain some useful insights into the Greek Cypriot psyche.

Tim, first of all, I did not claim that "not a single Turkish Cypriot wants or dares to speak up and defend Cypriot interests!" I said that "none of them -and I mean from those that have some minimum influencing power, seems to want or dare to speak up! Did you see any reaction from the part of any TC leader representing any sizeable political party, or any mass circulation newspaper, dare say a word -set aside a "shut up," to Erdogan or any other mainland Turkish political or military figurehead, for their continues intervention into the nature, parameters and details of the solution in Cyprus, like for example in the above case? If Morfou is "non-negotiable," why doesn't Talat say so? Why does it have to come from Erdogan's mouth? Is he the one negotiating with the GCs? Are we GCs going to have a solution agreement with the TC community, or with Turkey? Did you see any TC -set aside Talat, react against all these interventions? Don't they have dignity and self respect? They seem not to, besides the fact that they also seem to be in agreement with Erdogan's proclamations on the issue of Morfou!

Don’t talk to me about 5, 10 or 15 years ago! Tell me about what you and me see now, to be the situation and the facts!

I agree, but on the other hand a band of activists, disillusioned with Talat's performance since his election, have broken away from the 'This Country is ours Platform" and set up a rival "Peace Platform". This latter formation has been very critical of Talat, virtually accusing him of continuing Denktash's policies. I don't know what Afrika's circulation figures are, but I do know that you see it on every newstand, and this newspaper speaks out in no uncertain terms against the things you have mentioned above. I don't claim that these are anything more than minority views, but the voice of dissent is heard in the Turkish Cypriot Community. Greek Cypriots seem neither to know nor to care about this. That is what I have problems getting my head around.

[Nikitas]

For better or worse the actual interlocutors are Christofias and Talat. One is given a free hand by his "motherland" who has a policy of "you decide, we support" and the other, Talat, cannot do anything unless he gets prior approval and subsequent validation from Turkey.

In addition to the army, the frequent visits by Turkish government officials to remind him, Talat has the biggest reminder of all about his role, he is part of the minority community in the north. His position is risky.

Assuming he is a Cypriot first, his way out of the Turkish strangleholed is via GC demands- Turkish army and settlers out. The GCs are the only side that can demand what should be a legitimate TC demand for independence from Turkey, but which they cannot do because they will be portrayed as treacherous ingrates who bite the hand that feeds them.

The obstacle to TC demands is the supposed threat from GCs. An illusion that Turkey and her mouthpiezes on the island like to repeat often. The antidote to this is the EU and its role in a federated Cyprus not so much for what it can do for TCs but in what it can do to GCs if they try to repeat the 1963 domination of the island.

The problem is that there is not much effort by Talat to use the EU in this way. Unless it is happening behind the scenes and we do not see it.

[CopperLine]

Nikitas,
Spot on.

There are two key changes in the political landscape outside of Cyprus which Talat (and many GCs have not caught up with : first is the internal politics of Turkey and the salami-slicing victories of the AKP, and second is the consequent relationship with the EU. These two factors mean that we should not expect - and Talat should not need to repeat - the tired and useless dance of the past years.

[Nikitas]

Copperline,

We have to empathize with Talat to some extent. He cannot risk a clash with Turkey, not when the TCs are the weakest section in the TRNC. And he cannot be seen to fraternise with GCs for PR reasons. And then there is the time factor, to get to a solution while the TCs are still numerous enough to pose as the legitimate inerlocutors of the GCs.

I wonder if Talat now realises how Makarios felt when he was being pressed from all sides. History has funny turns for sure.

[Nikitas]

Morphou is not negotiable because of the Turkish investments there, said Erdogan.

Karpasia is not negotiable either because the generals have security objections, according to today's Politis paper.

Well, what exactly IS negotiable? Anybody know?

[CopperLine]

Everything and nothing is negotiable. Everything insofar as that is what negotiations are after one has removed preconditions. Nothing insofar as if one asked the spectrum of interested parties each would have some absolute non-negotiable issue the aggregate of which would veto any negotiation at all.

Assuming that one party has not conceded to some kind of unconditional surrender, then all that remains is negotiable. The claim that 'they'll never agree to that !' is one of the most mistaken claims in diplomatic history. (How many times have you read a politician say something like " We will never raise interests rates" and next week they're raised. Or "I have full confidence in my minister" for the minister to be sacked tomorrow. Or "Freedonia will always be part of Republicana" and next year Freedonia has secured independence). As I've said in this forum before, the whole point of negotiations is that you're talking to people who you've previously lambasted as the sum of the earth, the murderers of your children, the destroyers of your life. If you can start talking to such rogues then the conviction that some 'principle' or some issue is never up for negotiation starts to look pretty wobbly.

[bilako22]

Morphou is not negotiable because of the Turkish investments there, said Erdogan.

Karpasia is not negotiable either because the generals have security objections, according to today's Politis paper.

Well, what exactly IS negotiable? Anybody know?

Yeah , the British bases, Limassol and Paphos.

[humanist]

well that would be nice if it were up to GC's about the British bases in Larnaca, Lemesos/ Paphos but its not.

I believe that any plan going to the UN should include the return of those bases to the RoC which could provide for more negotiation about State size.

[Bananiot]

It now appears that Erdogan never said anything about Morphou. Talat. in yesterday's Yeni Duzen, said that the issue of Morphou will be decided on the negotiations table.