Cyprus-Forum.com

[metecyp]

What is going on? Is this democracy in action?

Ask Piratis. He is the one claiming how "democratic" the structure in the south is.

[Piratis]

democratic in quotes is what you have in Turkey. I am not even talking about what you have in the north, since you don't even have a state.

Go get a lesson about Democracy. I told you many times, but you keep showing your ignorance.

First of all, Verheugen is not a Cypriot. I don't remember any Cypriot politician going to Germany to tell them what to do. Germany is one democracy and that is where Verheugen can vote and have all his political rights. Cyprus is an independent state, and no Cypriot was denied to express his/her view. Here we do not have Gray wolves to beat up everybody that disagrees with them.

The TV channels are independent organizations. You can judge the channels for their actions. If the government intervened to arrange the programmes of TV channels that would be dictatorship, or at least communism. But here we have Democracy.

Yes, I know you want to accuse as that we are undemocratic, that we are extremists, that we are fascists, etc. because you hate us. You can say whatever you want. I could start saying the same about you, and drop this discussion to your level but I really have no time for such low level discussions.

[metecyp]

First of all, Verheugen is not a Cypriot. I don't remember any Cypriot politician going to Germany to tell them what to do.

This is the lamest excuse I've ever heard. He's not Cypriot, so he cannot express his opinion on the Annan plan, what kind of a logic is that? Haven't you at least read some Greek philosophers?

Here we do not have Gray wolves to beat up everybody that disagrees with them.

I've never approved such actions, and I've never claimed that the structure in the north is democratic. You claim that what you have is democratic, so why do you even compare things in the south with the grey wolves in the first place? Pointing out that the structure in the north is "less democratic" doesn't make the structure in the south more democratic.

Yes, I know you want to accuse as that we are undemocratic, that we are extremists, that we are fascists, etc. because you hate us.

Yes, the structure in the south is not democratic, because TCs are not part of it. But I don't hate you or any GC and I don't think that most GCs are fascists. I have many GC friends, and I have no problem with them whatsoever. I don't even claim that you're an extremist. You're just one-sided and narrow-minded in your views, that's all. The problem is that you claim how "brainwashed" TCs are, and how much propoganda goes on in the north, but you never accept that there's equal, if not more, amount of propoganda in the south. If there was no propoganda, then Verheugen should have been able to express his views. If there was real intention of GC people hearing both sides of the story, then most channels would have been happy to host Verheugen, so people could hear both sides of the story. You said TV channels are private and they can do whatever they want, that's not true. TV stations have the obligation to present both sides of any story, well, at least that's the case in democratic societies. I can't believe you claim how democratic your side is and be proud of Verheugen's denial from GC TV channels at the same time, it doesn't make sense.

[Piratis]

This is the lamest excuse I've ever heard. He's not Cypriot, so he cannot express his opinion on the Annan plan, what kind of a logic is that?

Who said he can not? We hear him in TV and radio every day and we read about his opinion in newspapers. Everybody knows what he says. Also, I never said I agree with the decision of the channels (if they actually took such decision). What I said is that this action of some channels says nothing about how democratic Cyprus is. What is lame is your attempt to discredit Republic of Cyprus because of this event.

What I said Is that channels are not obligated to give him air time since he is not Cypriot. If a minister of our government asked for 1 hour in CNN or in Turkish TV station to express his opinion would the channel be obligated to have him, and especially air him at the specific period he requested? I don’t think so.

About the Greek philosophers I will not say anything. I had a joke to say about it but I will not because I might offend some people. Although you become very aggressive I see no reason of following you in this.

[metecyp]

About the Greek philosophers I will not say anything. I had a joke to say about it but I will not because I might offend some people. Although you become very aggressive I see no reason of following you in this.

Go ahead. I have a minor in Philosophy, I won't be offended.

[mehmet]

Ok, I have just read some of the discussion that take place since my last post. You will realise when you join EU that foreigners have rights in Cyprus, if you didn't realise that before you soon will when judgements in the European Court apply to your country. For many years greek Cypriots seek to internationalise the Cyprus problem, Makarios was doing this for years, why else would he go around the world in Non-Aligned Conferences. So when people from outside of Cyprus have opinions about our problems don't forget who it was that went around telling the world about them. Was you only expecting them to listen to you and not ot speak?

No mention is made of the cancellation of a repeat of a popular Cypriot progeramme, despite Greek Cypriot requests, despite the tv company selling advertising space. I think I understand media manipulation when I see it. I experience it enough from the UK. If this is how people are being helped to make an informed decision it is quite poor and not worthy of a society that claims to be democratic.

[Piratis]

I repeat that what he says (and everybody else: Powel, Blair, Poos etc) is transmitted and printed and nobody is missing this information.
Personally I have no problem with any of them appearing for many hours on TV channels, but as I said this was a decision made by the channels and it was their right. Unlike the European Court that all Cypriots have to respect – and we are, giving air time to foreign politicians is not a democratic requirement and shows nothing about how democratic a country is. We are an independent country.

About this program that you say it was canceled I don’t see whats the problem. We have many TV stations having many discussions every day. The channels cancel or reschedule programs all the time. Actually most Cypriots got bored of listening to the same things over and over. What was so special about this particular program?

[mehmet]

I understand that what was so special about this progeramme was that a member of AKEL who was party to the negotiations that took place disputed Papadopoulos's arguements against Annan Plan. Greek Cypriots getting bored of repeats isn't the issue. Greek Cypriots asking for repeats is. It is quite unusual for people to request repeats of news/ discussion progerammes. The issue is why did they change their minds about showing it after initially scheduling it. Who made the decision? Was there any political pressure to do so? From whom? This is what the discusssion of how a media operates in a democratic society is about.[/b]

[metecyp]

These are quotes from today's Cyprus Mail.

E.U. OFFICIALS launched a blistering attack on the government yesterday, led by Enlargement Commissioner Gunter Verheugen, who effectively accused Cyprus of cheating its way into the European Union.

I remember Piratis was upset with me when I said "GC side getting into EU representing the whole island is not fair". Well, there you go, I'm not the only one saying so.

“I call on Mr Papadopoulos now to do the necessary. He must live up to his pledge,” he added saying that throughout the negotiations the Cyprus government had been in agreement with the general lines of the Annan plan and had only sought minor changes.

I remember this too. I remember how GC side repeatedly said (especially when Denktas refused the plan) they accept the main principles of Annan plan, and they seek minor changes to the plan. So what happenned?

Verheugen said at the very least he had expected a fair and balanced information campaign in Cyprus. “Never before in the history of the European Commission has a member of the European Commission been accused of interfering in the internal affairs of a member state,” he said referring to accusations levelled by the government against “foreign powers”.

The core of democracy is to defend someone's right to express his views even if your views are complete opposite. No further comments.

He also warned that the Turkish Cypriots would not be left in economic isolation. “We will not accept a situation where Turkish Cypriots would be a victim of a situation they have not created,” he said.

Although I'm glad that TCs are not going to suffer due to faults of others anymore, I'm still upset because this is only going to increase the current division. "Yes" from TCs, "No" from GCs is only going to increase the current division, and whatever we might agree in the future is not going to be better than the current plan.

[Piratis]

Why do you give so much importance on a programme that was canceled and you don't see that in your side 100.000 illegal settlers will vote?

About Cyprus cheating etc anybody can say whatever. The simple fact is that Greece made it clear that no enlargement could happen without Cyprus and this is how we managed to enter.