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Economic crisis wraps Turkish Cypriot

How can we solve it? (keep it civilized)

Postby DT. » Thu Aug 14, 2008 9:52 am

DT. wrote:
CopperLine wrote:It might be worth getting a sense of historical perspective and comparison here. First, the economic difficulties facing Turkey are, in the short run, nothing as severe as those which it suffered in the late 70s, in the 80s, in the late 90s, or the early part of this decade. I agree there are huge structural problems - but these are faced by all OECD economies to a greater or lesser extent. Thus Turkey is NOT less capable of supporting TRNC than before. It is a question of whether the AKP in particular wish to do so and in what way and for what purpose.

Second, whether supported by Turkey or not, does an economic crisis in TRNC more likely lead to a retrenchment of Turkish Cypriot separatism or does it more likely lead to an opening to the RoC ? (In any case it depends what kind of economic crisis and what its dynamics are).

Third, wishing for a crisis in expectation of throwing off the yoke of powerful forces is usually a daft wish in the absence of an organised movement or party. It is the already-powerful who survive crises, who suffer least, who are capable of offsetting damage, not the poor, the weak or the powerless. Just compare the size and weight of the Turkish economy with that of Cyprus, RoC or TRNC.

I'd have thought a better strategy would be to reflect on economic crises as affecting ordinary Cypriots and others and using that as a basis for common solidarity. Workers of all lands unite.


GDP per capita Cyprus: $27,429
GDP per capita Turkey: $ 9,629

Tell me again who are the poor?


Read your post copperline, you speak of the poor, the weak and the powerless. Your idea of the size and weight of an economy as an indicator (not sure which one) is a mistake. An economy may have the size of 2-3 trillion, yet remain fragile to international crisis or immaturity of the administration.

Take China and its stock exchange, up 500% then down 80%. The economy is a giant yet when the govt stops certain companies from dropping in share value then you are showing a level of immaturity as an economy.

Turkey is a vulnerable big(ish) economy. It is vulnerable in relation to its status as a candidate of the EU or not. It is vulnerable due to its debt. It is vulnerable due to its dependence on cheap labour...and many others.

Cyprus is a small compact efficient economy which has been successfully shifting its focus from tourism to services managing to bring it down to only 18% of the GDP now. The population has a higher buying power than nearly all economies in the region, it has a stable currency (as opposed to the lira) and it is completing its first round of EU infrastructure development making it much more attractive to foreign investment than ever before.
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Postby CopperLine » Thu Aug 14, 2008 11:01 am

DT,

You highlighted from my post the word "poor", then you gave two GDP per capita figures, and then asked who was poor. I simply responded saying that GDP and GDP per capita are not measures of poverty, and stand by that claim.

There's much that I agree with in your latest post - where reference to GDP is now absent - some of which I'd already said in earlier posts.
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Postby repulsewarrior » Thu Aug 14, 2008 3:36 pm

Cypriots, as a self-representing people have without a doubt demonstrated their resiliance and their ability to promote social-exchange, since their advent. Turkish Cypriots, for one reason or the other, have shown their reliance on a National identity to which they remain a subject. In the near future we will see what is more important to all of them: the island, or themselves.
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Postby Cem » Fri Aug 15, 2008 3:25 pm



Hi RW

I now finished reading your posts. Sorry to reply late, I had some other concerns at the moment.

Theoretically, I have no disagreement with you. Moreover, I must say I have found your propositions quite rational and plausible.
The only problem is about their practicality. The T/C side, for reasons you may know, is now seeming to be leaning on the "Oxi" side due their much disappointment of the outcome of AP referendum.
Will they -by majority- come to your line of reasoning ?
Not, unless the "momma tourkias" compel them to think so.
Therefore, it is becoming a major duty for comrade Christofias to take the iniative and try to put the Cyprus talks at the head of the Europaiki Enosis agenda.
I assume we both know that Turkey will never get into E.U no matter what she accomplishes in the line of her homeworks such as resolving the CyProb, recognition of Armenian genocide, allowing cultural rights for kurds, etc.
E.U is built on judeo-christian values whereas Turkey is now fast becoming a mixture of islamist and fascist state. The majority of turks "values" (whatever they are) are diametrically opposite to European peoples. Therefore, none of the EU states is likely to accept Turkey to be part of E.U so that EU parliament will be predominantly muslim, no way sir !
Therefore, E.U must use a tact that will subdue Turkey into leaving her grasp on the island and I would say a concession of an economic type would do. (I mean a general economic concession not a concession either on RoC or TRNC).
Regards.
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Postby humanist » Fri Aug 15, 2008 10:12 pm

cem ........ you say little but yet you say a lot. I think your on the right track there ... cheers
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Postby Nikitas » Fri Aug 15, 2008 10:54 pm

Cem are you suggesting that we can buy Cyprus back?
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Postby pantheman » Sat Aug 16, 2008 9:32 am

Nikitas wrote:Cem are you suggesting that we can buy Cyprus back?


So Turkey kidnaps Cyprus and makes a ransom demand. Well guess what the US and the UK don't deal with Terrorists. It encourages them to do it to the next poor unsuspecting victim.

We need to take her back, anyway we can.
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Postby Cem » Sat Aug 16, 2008 11:14 am

pantheman wrote:
Nikitas wrote:Cem are you suggesting that we can buy Cyprus back?


So Turkey kidnaps Cyprus and makes a ransom demand. Well guess what the US and the UK don't deal with Terrorists. It encourages them to do it to the next poor unsuspecting victim.

But, you did negotiate with..ahem..terrorists..

Who you thought you were dealing with during the countless rounds of Annan plan talks ? T/C leadership ?? Don't make me laugh..
:shock:
BTW, the U.S and U.K did also deal with terrorists many times despite their smart-mouthing.
Saudi Arabia, America's sweetheart, is the biggest financing source for terrorists like Bin-Laden. Don't forget that he is originally Saudi Arab too and has still many relatives there.
We need to take her back, anyway we can.

The past 34 years must have clearly shown to you the futility of "anyway we can" kind of deal.
Last edited by Cem on Sat Aug 16, 2008 11:36 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby Nikitas » Sat Aug 16, 2008 11:24 am

Obviously we need a Trojan Horse
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Postby Cem » Sat Aug 16, 2008 11:35 am

Nikitas wrote:Cem are you suggesting that we can buy Cyprus back?


the RoC can not buy back Cyprus alone. the E.U can act on her behalf however.

What I mean is that if the E.U is really intent on solving the CyProb this time, she has to make some offers to Erdogan such as the reopening up of the few economy-related chapters in accession talks (they can later be closed under any pretext whatsoever anyhow).

Such a move might reinforce Erdogan's profile in turkish public opinion as the majority now seem to have lost their interest in E.U.
Turkish economy is still highly fragile and E.U is its biggest partner in both trade and tourism.

As far as I am concerned, while basically I am not against re-unification under the banner of E.U and RoC, I have two major concerns:
1) T/Cs should never suffer from the consequences of such re-unification economically.
2) Therefore, the re-unification process can only be finalized at the end of 15 to 20 years probationary period for the T/C side so that pending this period T/C economic assets (firms, companies, banks) can be strengthened and made competitive.
Any premature re-unification proposal disregarding the obvious economic weakness of T/C and not addressing the above issues will definitely get a big "HAYIR" from me in a referandum
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