Cyprus-Forum.com

[Bananiot]

I second iceman's call

[Oracle]

I don't care.

[Nikitas]

Bananiot,

We must show understanding for Ergogan and his problems. How about them showing understanding about our problems. From their side the only thing I hear is a bazaar mentality of give and take even on humanitarian issues. How long is this to go on for?

As for what I suggest, I have said it before. Territory is the first and last issue that counts. The rest is window dressing. At some point Turkey will bring about a secession (i mispelled it in a post above) or else make it impossible for us to stay in the federation and we will be forced to leave, or it might even be worse but I wont go there yet.

The moment you accept Bizonality you accept partition even if you change the terminology. So let us be honest with ourselves and go for the only issue that makes sense.

[Bananiot]

You are still not telling me what you want. What is the only issue that makes sense. Please spell it out, let us be honest (as you rightly say) with ourselves.

[Nikitas]

I want our side to press for the maximum return of territory. It is the only issue that makes any sense and the only one worth pushing for. The system of government is secondary.


If you look at another post by Halil, a Turkish minister is arriving to lay the foundation for a road linking Nicosia with Morphou. The symbolism is clear enough and shows the mind set that will be dogging the new BBF for ever.

The best we can hope for is a clear settlement that defines once and for all the extent of territory ceded to the TC component state. A simultaneous statement that the TCs relinquish ALL CLAIMS to any other part of the ISLAND of Cyprus ( a different notion of the RoC) . Also a clear statement that SBAs burden GC territory and when they leave ALL their area will revert to the GC state. Additionally we must settle the attendand territorial issues like Economic Zones, Continental Shelf, Rescue operations etc.

If we do not settle these issues now we will be facing the problems Greece has with Turkey and we will not have either a navy nor an air force to challenge the daily violations.

I am afraid that we are going into the talks with cloudy notions about the system of government and other irrelevant issues and we will leave the territorial issue to the level of the Anna plan- a 70 30 split with an indefensible dividing line. If we do that we deserve what we will get very soon.

[Bananiot]

I disagree with you. It has never been about territory. Governance was always the issue.

But, let us say we push for 75-80%. We are hardly in a position to dictate terms, you do realise this I hope. Probably, because it is going to be a give and take situation, the more territoty that comes under the Greek Cypriot component state, the more confederal elements will sneak into the equation.

If we are keen on solution because we have finally come to terms with the reality that the clock is not ticking in our favour and if Turkey is willing to go the extra length in order to boost her EU claims, then we may have a chance.

I think you underestimate the EU factor Nikitas and the momentum the new Cyprus will gain after solution.

[Piratis]

Bananiot is so naive he believes the words and not the essence of things.

Words like "unification", when the essence is partition with the Turks having full control over the north part of our island.

Words like "solution" when in fact not only our problems would not be solved but they would be made worst and even more difficult to be solved. Don't forget that the first step in solving a problem is to recognize that there is a problem. By signing an agreement that would give the north part of our island officially to the Turks, the Turkish occupation will not be even recognized as a problem anymore.

We would be like the Kurds who fight for a free Kurdistan and everybody else says "What Kurdistan? That area is Turkish. Kurds are terrorists for wanting the freedom of their lands". This is what will happen to the north part of our country if we sign some capitulation agreement.

Something like the Annan plan would solve almost nothing in practice. Almost no GC refugees will want to go and live under Turkish occupation. Compensations? Who would pay them? Turkey would be off the hook. So forget about them.

The only positive is that 7% of land returned IF Turkey honors the agreement. And since they would get everything they wanted from day one, and since the voice of Cyprus in EU and UN would be eliminated with the TC vetos, then I really don't see them giving even that back and mark my words on this.

So not only we would not solve any of our problems, but we would make our problems worst. Turkey would be off the hook once and for all, the disputes that will continue will be (supposedly) between the two "equal communities" in Cyprus, our economy would go bankrupt since we would have to support TCs and settlers and at the same time we will have them competing against us, we will have control of no country at all, we will have no international voice since Turkey will be able to block whatever they don't like etc.

So Bananiot you have to look at the essence of things, and stop being fooled by empty words.

I don't know how under the current balance of power the Cyprus problem can be solved. Actually I can tell you that it can not be solved under the current balance of power.

What I know is how not to make our problem worst and how not to make steps backward for its solution by de-recognizing the existence of the problem: The Turkish occupation of the north part of our island.

Also Bananiot, you have to stop lying about what we accept and what we don't. We perfectly accept to share power and everything with TCs, but the keyword here is proportional. The TCs want a hugely disproportionally large amount of share in everything (power, land etc) and this is what we do not accept.

[humanist]

Thank you for your response Bananiot. Argh a unitary State for TCs and GC"s and anyone else who wants to be part of that wonderful country. Now that is a real solution.

I do appreciate that is is not going to happen.

[Bananiot]

Political equality Piratis. Do you know the meaning of the words? I see that you now revert ot your wait for another hundred years theory for the balance of power to change. This encapsulates all the absurdities you come up with in this forum.

Humanist, who wouldn't want a unitary Cyprus. We had one but the bigots (mainly in our side) made sure we would never set another sight on it again.

[Piratis]

Political equality Piratis. Do you know the meaning of the words?

Of course I do. From the first result in Google when you search for Political Equality, from Harvard University:

By political equality we refer to the extent to which citizens have an equal voice over governmental decisions. One of the bedrock principles in a democracy is the equal consideration of the preferences and interests of all citizens. This is expressed in such principles as one-person/one-vote, equality before the law, and equal rights of free speech. Equal consideration of the preferences and needs of all citizens is fostered by equal political activity among citizens;

http://www.hks.harvard.edu/inequality/S ... /Verba.pdf

Unfortunately Bananiot it is you that doesn't know what Political Equality means, because you adopt the Turkish meaning of the word, the way they want to apply it in Cyprus only in order to screw us (and not to Turkey itself with their own minorities) which is the exact opposide of what Political Equality truly means. The Turks (and you) reverse the meaning of Political Equality, and instead of Equality among all citizens and one-person/one-vote which is the principle way Political Equality is expressed, you want racist discriminations so that citizens that are Muslim and speak Turkish can have more rights and more say than every other Cypriot citizen.

I see that you now revert ot your wait for another hundred years theory for the balance of power to change. This encapsulates all the absurdities you come up with in this forum.

No Bananiot, I don't have to wait for anything. I know that we have to do today in order to avoid having a worst problem for us now.

The fact that what is better(=least bad) for today could also be very helpful for a true solution in the future is only a bonus.