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[Piratis]

I know Kifeas, BBF with the correct content. You can fool someone sometimes but you can not fool all people all times.

Soon the two schools of thought will fight the last battle which will decide the fate of the war. On one side will be the nationalist forces that want a unitary Cyprus as first choice and partition as the next best choice and on the other side will be the forces of true Cypriots. This time round we will meet on a level playing field and I reckon the outcome is already decided.

The Annan plan was a partition plan that would give the absolute control of the north part of Cyprus to the Turks (= partition) while at the same time give to Turkey the power to block Cyprus from taking any decision that would be in the interests of our island and not the interests of Turkey. They would also have the power to make the whole thing collapse very very easily.

Today is August 11th 2008. And just like long before the Annan plan was placed in referendum, and even before Papadopoulos was elected as president, I am telling you this and mark it down: There is no way the Cypriot people would vote for a partition plan, that not only will give the north to the Turks, but would also jeopardize everything else that we have. NO WAY.

So I am asking you Bananiot. Are you smart enough to understand what I say? Or are you going to force the Cypriot people to reject another such plan in another referendum, somehting that can only harm Cyprus and help the Turks?

When you know full well, without a single doubt (unless you are stupid) that:
1) the Cypriot people will not accept such plan
2) Forcing Cypriot people to reject another plan can harm Cyprus and help the Turks.

then why you want to do what with 100% certainty will harm Cyprus? To punish Cypriots and help the Turks and AngloAmericans impose their will? Why Bananiot?

And please don't tell me that there is even a chance in a million that Cypriots can accept somehting like the Annan plan, because you know full well that there is no such chance. Even if AKEL asked from its sheep to vote for it, you will still not manage to even approach the 50% because as we have seen from last referendum there is much less party loyalty when it comes to critical issues such as this one. If you do not understand this, then you are stupid and such stupidity is very dangerous for our country.

[Piratis]

So you want to banish 100 000 voters along with their families to some island ...

Just to make it more clear to you. We voted for the dreaded Plan (despite the constant harassment) because we considered the Annan Plan a far better proposition than partition. We did not fall for the lies of the President that within a week of saying no we would get a better, european so called solution. This is the important difference between us and the rejectionists who have finaly come to terms with what Denktsh has been saying all along. We cannot accept that partition is the the next best solution, even if it is on a 90-10% basis.

Thus, we embark on a new effort to find a solution based on the only viable option of BBF where the two communities will be politically equal and each one will be in charge of its component state. The working groups have made significant progres on governance and this may be the catalyst for a final solution.

Again, whatever the outcome, the people will decide with a referendun but now the game will be played in an even field and one can already hear the cries of the rejectionists that have started in "Phileleftheros" and the satanic "Ethnos" which had the cheek to accuse Glafkos Klerides of being a nazi spy. Klerides, being the gentleman he is, never bothered to take them to court and it seems they are at it again, playing the game they know best.

Bananiot you committed no bravery so stop describing it as such. You used your democratic right to vote and in my opinion voted for the dangerous option.

YOU YOURSELF HAVE STATED THAT DENKTASH HAD THE ARMY READY TO INTERVENE HAD WE VOTED YES! WHat would happen then Bananiot? How would we deal with the future as a statelet?

Are we disturbing you acceptionist views too much by requesting sensible protections? Like no virgin birth, no gaurantees and no presence of any army? Are we annoying you by reqesting a fairer distribution of land?

You are wasting your time with Bananiot. The aim of the Turks in Cyprus is to fully Turkify the north part of our island and no kind of agreement will stop them from having this as an aim. If they have the power to enforce their aim, they will, and no words in some agreement will stop them. Here they violate whole UN resolutions and they are telling us that they will bother to violate some agreement?

Here is what the Lausanne Treaty said about the Greek islands of Imbros and Tenedos:

ARTICLE 14.
The islands of Imbros and Tenedos, remaining under Turkish sovereignty, shall enjoy a special administrative organisation composed of local elements and furnishing every guarantee for the native non-Moslem population in so far as concerns local administration and the protection of persons and property. The maintenance of order will be assured therein by a police force recruited from amongst the local population by the local administration above provided for and placed under its orders.

Not only they didn't do what was agreed, but they did the exact opposite by terrorizing the Greeks and forcing them to leave their islands, closing down the Greek school and replacing it with Turkish etc. When the above agreement was signed in Imbros the population was 10.000 Greeks and 100 Turks. Today there are 9000 Turks and less than 300 Greeks.

With something like Annan plan the full control of north Cyprus goes to Turks. That is partition, period. But what is worst, Turkey will also be able to block our international voice as well, so not only they will violate the agreements but they will be able to stop us from officially complaining about it at the UN or EU. The international voice of Cyprus would be reduced to that of Kurdistan.

[Bananiot]

You are both implying, of course, that we should stop negotiations with the Turks because they will not abide by their signature in case of agreement. In the case of the Annan Plan (which I agree you you is a dead plan now) the army was summoned by the likes of Denktash to intervene had we also voted yes because the deep state considered the plan to be unfavourable to them. It will do you both no harm to acknowledge this rather than mince your words with absurdities.

One more thing. It is okay to accuse the Turks that they never stick to their signatures but those doing the accusations must have good credentials themselves if anyone would stop and listen to them. It was our side that went back on its signature in 1960, before the ink had time to dry on the paper. It was basically our side that tried to unilaterally change the constitution and in doing so brought disaster to Cyprus. If you can accept this you may just begin to see clearer.

[Piratis]

You are both implying, of course, that we should stop negotiations with the Turks because they will not abide by their signature in case of agreement.

No Bananiot. Negotiations can continue, although I doubt there will be any true solution coming out of them. It is well known that an invador can not be forced out just with words.

However if we do come to some agreement, that agreement should be such that if the Turks do not abide by their signature that they will gain nothing and we will lose nothing more. An agreement where the Turks get everything from day one, while the peanuts that would be returned to us are not given equally fast, will result with 100% certainty in Turks getting what they want and giving absolutely nothing in return.

In the case of the Annan Plan (which I agree you you is a dead plan now) the army was summoned by the likes of Denktash to intervene had we also voted yes because the deep state considered the plan to be unfavourable to them. It will do you both no harm to acknowledge this rather than mince your words with absurdities.

Yes, the Turkish army was not satisfied with the 99% of their demands that you accepted. They wanted the 100%. Tell us something new.

One more thing. It is okay to accuse the Turks that they never stick to their signatures but those doing the accusations must have good credentials themselves if anyone would stop and listen to them. It was our side that went back on its signature in 1960, before the ink had time to dry on the paper. It was basically our side that tried to unilaterally change the constitution and in doing so brought disaster to Cyprus. If you can accept this you may just begin to see clearer.

We never violated any agreement. We simply made proposals for changes to the constidution of our own country.

It is well know fact that the 1960 agreements were imposed on the Cypriot people by outsiders, violating our right for freedom and self-determination. And you, traitor, instead of acknowledge this fact, you instead accuse the Cypriots for not being the good slaves and accepting whatever foreigners imposed on us. If you see one by one that proposals we made you will see that they would only make Cyprus better, more democratic and more in line with other European democracies. There was absolutely nothing sinister about them.

However I hope you will remind your above statement to some acceptionists that think that a bad plan can be improved with time. You should remind them what the Turks keep saying: "If you didn't like it you shouldn't have signed it" and make it perfectly clear to them that if we make a mistake and accept a bad "solution" not only there will be no space for improvement but we will not be able to even propose any improvements!!

[Bananiot]

You are just one sided Piratis and you fail to see the flip side of the coin, as usual. You can cry "traitor" for the rest of your miserable life, I do not give a damn.

You are such a sorry person, finally believing your own lies, when you say that the changes to the constitution was just a proposal. This is utter rubbish and to prove it once and for all let me tell you that when the Turkish Ambassador to Nicosia knocked on the presidential door to submit the answer of Turkey to the "proposals" he found the door locked and no one bothered to answer him and accept the Turksih answer. Next time you repeat your nonsense, get your historical facts right.

The incident I just described shows that they were not mere proposals but an ultimatum to the Turksih Cypriot community and if you cannot diges this then you have a problem because you are likely to make the same mistakes again and again. This is what happens to people who never learn from thier mistakes.

I will not call you a traitor. You have the prerogative for this.

[Piratis]

You are just one sided Piratis and you fail to see the flip side of the coin, as usual. You can cry "traitor" for the rest of your miserable life, I do not give a damn.

You are such a sorry person, finally believing your own lies, when you say that the changes to the constitution was just a proposal. This is utter rubbish and to prove it once and for all let me tell you that when the Turkish Ambassador to Nicosia knocked on the presidential door to submit the answer of Turkey to the "proposals" he found the door locked and no one bothered to answer him and accept the Turksih answer. Next time you repeat your nonsense, get your historical facts right.

The incident I just described shows that they were not mere proposals but an ultimatum to the Turksih Cypriot community and if you cannot diges this then you have a problem because you are likely to make the same mistakes again and again. This is what happens to people who never learn from thier mistakes.

I will not call you a traitor. You have the prerogative for this.

And since when a foreign country should give to us an answer for the changes we proposed for our own constidution. Is Cyprus not an independent sovereign country? Do the Turks ask us when they want to make changes to the constidution of Turkey??

Those proposals where only proposals and this is made perfectly clear from the fact that those proposals were never implemented.

But I see you avoided answering the question. In your next "yes" campaign sponsored by the AngloAmericans, will you inform the people that after accepting some unfair plan they will never be allowed to even make proposals for its improvement? Or you will continue lying to the people telling them they should put their signature on something unfair that it will magically improve in the future?

[Viewpoint]

You are just one sided Piratis and you fail to see the flip side of the coin, as usual. You can cry "traitor" for the rest of your miserable life, I do not give a damn.

You are such a sorry person, finally believing your own lies, when you say that the changes to the constitution was just a proposal. This is utter rubbish and to prove it once and for all let me tell you that when the Turkish Ambassador to Nicosia knocked on the presidential door to submit the answer of Turkey to the "proposals" he found the door locked and no one bothered to answer him and accept the Turksih answer. Next time you repeat your nonsense, get your historical facts right.

The incident I just described shows that they were not mere proposals but an ultimatum to the Turksih Cypriot community and if you cannot diges this then you have a problem because you are likely to make the same mistakes again and again. This is what happens to people who never learn from thier mistakes.

I will not call you a traitor. You have the prerogative for this.

And since when a foreign country should give to us an answer for the changes we proposed for our own constidution. Is Cyprus not an independent sovereign country? Do the Turks ask us when they want to make changes to the constidution of Turkey??

Those proposals where only proposals and this is made perfectly clear from the fact that those proposals were never implemented.

But I see you avoided answering the question. In your next "yes" campaign sponsored by the AngloAmericans, will you inform the people that after accepting some unfair plan they will never be allowed to even make proposals for its improvement? Or you will continue lying to the people telling them they should put their signature on something unfair that it will magically improve in the future?

Why was Akritas a pre condition for TCs to accept when they wanted to claim their rightful place in running the "RoC"??

[Bananiot]

What a childish argument! Really, only children can think like this. Piratis knows nothing about how this world is run that is why he always feels that we are hard done by just about every body.

The dreaded Americans, by the way, have dished out 15 million dollars per year since 1974 and when they thought we did not need any more assistance, we turned the world around to ensure that the dreaded Americans kept sending th#iier dirty dollars. The hippocricy of some people knows no end. This money was spent to built the refugge camps that housed some 180 000 refugees and Nicosia's new hospital among else.

[Piratis]

Why was Akritas a pre condition for TCs to accept when they wanted to claim their rightful place in running the "RoC"??

1) There was never such pre-condition

2) The TCs do not recognize RoC and fought for its destruction (which is why why you use the word RoC within quotes) so how can you participate in the running of somehting you want to destroy?

[Piratis]

What a childish argument! Really, only children can think like this. Piratis knows nothing about how this world is run that is why he always feels that we are hard done by just about every body.

The dreaded Americans, by the way, have dished out 15 million dollars per year since 1974 and when they thought we did not need any more assistance, we turned the world around to ensure that the dreaded Americans kept sending th#iier dirty dollars. The hippocricy of some people knows no end. This money was spent to built the refugge camps that housed some 180 000 refugees and Nicosia's new hospital among else.

I see. So when you have no answers to what I ask you, you resort to attacks.

If it wasn't for the Americans and their allies (UK/Turkey) then we wouldn't have any refugees to begin with. 15 million dollars are peanuts by the way. If they just paid us for the bases and the other facilities they have on our island they would have to pay a lot more than that.