Cyprus-Forum.com

[boomerang]

I just want to know who died and put Bananiot in charge in calling everyone a rejectionist that don't agree with him...

[Piratis]

Basically a rejectionist is a person who rejects a compromise solution to the Cyprus issue.

I, and most other members of this forum, accept a compromise solution and yet you call us "rejectionists". Isn't it a compromise from our side to accept that the TC minority can be a majority of a specific region in Cyprus consisting of about 18%? Isn't it a compromise to accept that a minority of 18% can have veto powers on specific issues? Do you know many countries that have made such compromises to their minorities Bananiot?

Who you call "rejectionists" are not those who reject a compromise solution but those who reject human rights violations, racist discriminations and and undemocratic system that will give to Turkey the control of our whole country.

A compromise solution is one that can be accepted by both communities

In that case then why you insist on somehting like Annan plan? If there is one thing that we know for 100% about what each community accepts and what it does not, that is that Greek Cypriots do not accept somehting like the Annan plan.

No Bananiot, for you a so called "compomise" solution is whatever the Turks accept. You don't give a damn about what Cypriots accept and that is evident.

You of course know that democracy (and federation) comes in many shapes and tastes. The sensible thing to do is to choose those elements of democracy and federation that suit Cyprus and can bring the much desired solution.

Democracy has certain principles which if violated is not democracy anymore. One of the main principles is majority rule. You can't have whatever and then label it a "taste of democracy". If it doesn't meet the democratic principles it is not democracy.

Also it is very funny that you say about a federation that would "suit Cyprus". Who are you kidding Bananiot? If we would have what would suit Cyprus we wouldn't even have a federation to begin with. What you advocate is what suits Turkey and the AngloAmericans, and stop denying this truth.

Here is what democracy means, as it is defined by the most known federation in the world:

All democracies are systems in which citizens freely make political decisions by majority rule. But rule by the majority is not necessarily democratic: No one, for example, would call a system fair or just that permitted 51 percent of the population to oppress the remaining 49 percent in the name of the majority. In a democratic society, majority rule must be coupled with guarantees of individual human rights that, in turn, serve to protect the rights of minorities--whether ethnic, religious, or political, or simply the losers in the debate over a piece of controversial legislation. The rights of minorities do not depend upon the goodwill of the majority and cannot be eliminated by majority vote. The rights of minorities are protected because democratic laws and institutions protect the rights of all citizens.

Diane Ravitch, scholar, author, and a former assistant U.S. secretary of education, wrote in a paper for an educational seminar in Poland: "When a representative democracy operates in accordance with a constitution that limits the powers of the government and guarantees fundamental rights to all citizens, this form of government is a constitutional democracy. In such a society, the majority rules, and the rights of minorities are protected by law and through the institutionalization of law."

These elements define the fundamental elements of all modern democracies, no matter how varied in history, culture, and economy. Despite their enormous differences as nations and societies, the essential elements of constitutional government--majority rule coupled with individual and minority rights, and the rule of law--can be found in Canada and Costa Rica, France and Botswana, Japan and India.

This is what democracy means Bananiot. Majority rules but at the same time the human and democratic rights of everybody, including those of minorities are protected and can not be removed.

So Cypriots should be able to rule their own island in a democratic way, one person one vote, and at the same time the human and democratic rights of all citizens without racist discriminations will be guaranteed.

[Viewpoint]

Basically a rejectionist is a person who rejects a compromise solution to the Cyprus issue.

I, and most other members of this forum, accept a compromise solution and yet you call us "rejectionists". Isn't it a compromise from our side to accept that the TC minority can be a majority of a specific region in Cyprus consisting of about 18%? Isn't it a compromise to accept that a minority of 18% can have veto powers on specific issues? Do you know many countries that have made such compromises to their minorities Bananiot?

Who you call "rejectionists" are not those who reject a compromise solution but those who reject human rights violations, racist discriminations and and undemocratic system that will give to Turkey the control of our whole country.

A compromise solution is one that can be accepted by both communities

In that case then why you insist on somehting like Annan plan? If there is one thing that we know for 100% about what each community accepts and what it does not, that is that Greek Cypriots do not accept somehting like the Annan plan.

No Bananiot, for you a so called "compomise" solution is whatever the Turks accept. You don't give a damn about what Cypriots accept and that is evident.

You of course know that democracy (and federation) comes in many shapes and tastes. The sensible thing to do is to choose those elements of democracy and federation that suit Cyprus and can bring the much desired solution.

Democracy has certain principles which if violated is not democracy anymore. One of the main principles is majority rule. You can't have whatever and then label it a "taste of democracy". If it doesn't meet the democratic principles it is not democracy.

Also it is very funny that you say about a federation that would "suit Cyprus". Who are you kidding Bananiot? If we would have what would suit Cyprus we wouldn't even have a federation to begin with. What you advocate is what suits Turkey and the AngloAmericans, and stop denying this truth.

Here is what democracy means, as it is defined by the most known federation in the world:

All democracies are systems in which citizens freely make political decisions by majority rule. But rule by the majority is not necessarily democratic: No one, for example, would call a system fair or just that permitted 51 percent of the population to oppress the remaining 49 percent in the name of the majority. In a democratic society, majority rule must be coupled with guarantees of individual human rights that, in turn, serve to protect the rights of minorities--whether ethnic, religious, or political, or simply the losers in the debate over a piece of controversial legislation. The rights of minorities do not depend upon the goodwill of the majority and cannot be eliminated by majority vote. The rights of minorities are protected because democratic laws and institutions protect the rights of all citizens.

Diane Ravitch, scholar, author, and a former assistant U.S. secretary of education, wrote in a paper for an educational seminar in Poland: "When a representative democracy operates in accordance with a constitution that limits the powers of the government and guarantees fundamental rights to all citizens, this form of government is a constitutional democracy. In such a society, the majority rules, and the rights of minorities are protected by law and through the institutionalization of law."

These elements define the fundamental elements of all modern democracies, no matter how varied in history, culture, and economy. Despite their enormous differences as nations and societies, the essential elements of constitutional government--majority rule coupled with individual and minority rights, and the rule of law--can be found in Canada and Costa Rica, France and Botswana, Japan and India.

This is what democracy means Bananiot. Majority rules but at the same time the human and democratic rights of everybody, including those of minorities are protected and can not be removed.

So Cypriots should be able to rule their own island in a democratic way, one person one vote, and at the same time the human and democratic rights of all citizens without racist discriminations will be guaranteed.

So is the EU undemocratic? ps Kosova

[repulsewarrior]

Kosovo, don't make me laugh vp...

...biggest military fortress in Europe, bigger than Cyprus, but not illegally occupied by a NATO force.

compromise, ...like Kosovars and Serbian (and Bosnia Herz..) are at a state where their relations have been normalised and that through their cooperation both prosper.

[Piratis]

So is the EU undemocratic? ps Kosova

The EU is not a country. The EU is an association of countries and therefore the unit is each member country, and not the citizen, as is the case withing countries.

Kosovo follows the principles I wrote earlier. Do you think the Serbian minority in kosovo has 50% power share and veto powers in Kosovo?

Also stop confusing your case with Kosovo.

The only case which is similar to the occupation of the north part of Cyprus by Turkey is when Germany of Hitler invaded and occupied the sovereign and independent Czechoslovakia with the pretext of protecting the German minority there. And even that case is not totally similar since the Germans of Czechoslovakia were actually concentrated on a specific region of that country, unlike the Turkish minority of Cyprus who do not own a separate region of their own since the whole island, for thousands of years, has an overwhelming Greek majority in all parts of it.

[repulsewarrior]

So is the EU undemocratic? ps Kosova

The EU is not a country. The EU is an association of countries and therefore the unit is each member country, and not the citizen, as is the case withing countries.

Kosovo follows the principles I wrote earlier. Do you think the Serbian minority in kosovo has 50% power share and veto powers in Kosovo?

Also stop confusing your case with Kosovo.

The only case which is similar to the occupation of the north part of Cyprus by Turkey is when Germany of Hitler invaded and occupied the sovereign and independent Czechoslovakia with the pretext of protecting the German minority there. And even that case is not totally similar since the Germans of Czechoslovakia were actually concentrated on a specific region of that country, unlike the Turkish minority of Cyprus who do not own a separate region of their own since the whole island, for thousands of years, has an overwhelming Greek majority in all parts of it.

Thank-you Piratis, I would add that a 'solution' like Kosovo suits the designs of the ethnocentrics we call rejectionists here. Not unlike the Serbs and Kosovars who seek an exclusivity over and above the needs, historical and social-economic, of the population of that region as a whole. Kosovo is the same as Cyprus only in that the intolerant deny or dismiss any demand beyond their own because they believe in their invincibility.

[Viewpoint]

So is the EU undemocratic? ps Kosova

The EU is not a country. The EU is an association of countries and therefore the unit is each member country, and not the citizen, as is the case withing countries.

Kosovo follows the principles I wrote earlier. Do you think the Serbian minority in kosovo has 50% power share and veto powers in Kosovo?

Also stop confusing your case with Kosovo.

The only case which is similar to the occupation of the north part of Cyprus by Turkey is when Germany of Hitler invaded and occupied the sovereign and independent Czechoslovakia with the pretext of protecting the German minority there. And even that case is not totally similar since the Germans of Czechoslovakia were actually concentrated on a specific region of that country, unlike the Turkish minority of Cyprus who do not own a separate region of their own since the whole island, for thousands of years, has an overwhelming Greek majority in all parts of it.

Im refering to your philosphy of majority always rules then you should not have the right to stop the majority from recognizing Kosova. You still have to come to terms with the fact that there are many versions of democracy and not one size fits all.

[Piratis]

So is the EU undemocratic? ps Kosova

The EU is not a country. The EU is an association of countries and therefore the unit is each member country, and not the citizen, as is the case withing countries.

Kosovo follows the principles I wrote earlier. Do you think the Serbian minority in kosovo has 50% power share and veto powers in Kosovo?

Also stop confusing your case with Kosovo.

The only case which is similar to the occupation of the north part of Cyprus by Turkey is when Germany of Hitler invaded and occupied the sovereign and independent Czechoslovakia with the pretext of protecting the German minority there. And even that case is not totally similar since the Germans of Czechoslovakia were actually concentrated on a specific region of that country, unlike the Turkish minority of Cyprus who do not own a separate region of their own since the whole island, for thousands of years, has an overwhelming Greek majority in all parts of it.

Im refering to your philosphy of majority always rules then you should not have the right to stop the majority from recognizing Kosova. You still have to come to terms with the fact that there are many versions of democracy and not one size fits all.

It is obvious VP that you have no clue about what democracy means, neither your "motherland" knows and the recent events there is yet another proof for this.

One person one vote and majority rule is the most important principle of democracy. As simple as that.

And stop confusing things with EU. I tell you again: EU is not a country.

[Viewpoint]

So is the EU undemocratic? ps Kosova

The EU is not a country. The EU is an association of countries and therefore the unit is each member country, and not the citizen, as is the case withing countries.

Kosovo follows the principles I wrote earlier. Do you think the Serbian minority in kosovo has 50% power share and veto powers in Kosovo?

Also stop confusing your case with Kosovo.

The only case which is similar to the occupation of the north part of Cyprus by Turkey is when Germany of Hitler invaded and occupied the sovereign and independent Czechoslovakia with the pretext of protecting the German minority there. And even that case is not totally similar since the Germans of Czechoslovakia were actually concentrated on a specific region of that country, unlike the Turkish minority of Cyprus who do not own a separate region of their own since the whole island, for thousands of years, has an overwhelming Greek majority in all parts of it.

Im refering to your philosphy of majority always rules then you should not have the right to stop the majority from recognizing Kosova. You still have to come to terms with the fact that there are many versions of democracy and not one size fits all.

It is obvious VP that you have no clue about what democracy means, neither your "motherland" knows and the recent events there is yet another proof for this.

One person one vote and majority rule is the most important principle of democracy. As simple as that.

And stop confusing things with EU. I tell you again: EU is not a country.

You are a minority in the EU with a veto right, the EU is a union of states just as a united Cyprus will ne under a BBF with equal political weight of the 2 communities this will give us the right to stop you when we disagree just like you have on the Kosova issue.

Your view of democracy gives you the right to erase Turkish as a official language just because the GC majority used their numerical advantage to discriminate against its TC population. Democracy can be manipulated and misused to persecute and discriminate against certain ethnic groups you shoudl know this you are the masters and have lots of experience to fall back on, this is the crux of the matter, if you have no intentions to exploit your numerical advanatge then surely you should not have any objections to placing safeguards that will ensure you do not misuse your power against us, but you still persistantly object which places us on guard against any and all avenues that will allow to dominate us.

[Nikitas]

Erase he Turkish language? But in the south it is still regarded as an official language and used on official documents, money, street signs etc. If anyone has erased anything in Cyprus it is the TC leadership with the idiotic name changing business and exclusive use of Turkish who erased things.

In the EU Greek was an official language since 1980 when Greece became a full member. Cyprus had no say in it.