Cyprus-Forum.com

[repulsewarrior]

Mr.B., please explain the opening of the gates. Why did Denktash do that?

[zan]

By Nicos Rolandis

“The Irish conflict once seemed as intractable as any in the world. The Irish solved it by mutual concessions, persistent negotiation, refusal to give in to momentary setbacks and a willingness to let friendly outsiders help. That’s a good template for others to follow”.

In her own historical course during the past 50 years, Cyprus directed her footsteps to an objective quite different from the above. The phrase “political compromise” was absent from the Cyprus vocabulary. We used to reject proposals before we studied them. Instead of building confidence, we demolished it. Co-operation was upstaged by conflict.

I recall vividly a story which Tassos Papadopoulos related to us, a group of friends, one evening, around 1962:

It was about a decision of the Council of Ministers. There was a proposal submitted to the Council, Tassos said, for the approval of the construction of an asphalted road which would connect two Turkish Cypriot villages, close to Nicosia, at a cost of £100,000. The majority of the Greek Cypriot ministers were opposed to the proposal. Eventually, after a long discussion, it was agreed that the asphalt would cover only a single lane. This reduced the cost to £50,000, but it meant, in effect, that if two cars going to opposite directions came across each other on the road (most probably driven by Turkish Cypriots) one of the drivers would have to fall into the un-asphalted part of the road or into the ditch and would probably damage his vehicle.

When the meeting of the Council of Ministers was over, Tassos said, Makarios told him: “Tassos, today we saved £50,000.” “No, your Beatitude,” Tassos retorted, “today we squandered £50,000.”

In other words, whilst Makarios was satisfied because we had curtailed the budget of the “useless Turks” by £50,000, Tassos regretted the fact that we even approved £50,000 for the single-lane road.

We were all silent for a moment and then I interjected: “If this is our mentality in the Council of Ministers, I am afraid that we have neither saved nor lost £50,000. It is Cyprus that we are losing.”

And indeed, we lost Cyprus. We partitioned the country. When the initial enthusiasm and the jubilation which followed the 1960 declaration of Makarios that “We have won” subsided, we all grabbed the body of Cyprus, Greek and Turkish Cypriots alike, each side pulling it its own way, until we broke the country apart. Neither side displayed the love and affection of the “mother” in Bertolt Brecht’s Caucasian Chalk Cycle, which might have saved the common motherland. We brought in illegal weapons, they brought in illegal weapons. Warlords on their side, warlords on our side. The ‘Akritas’ organisation on the Greek side, the TMT organisation on the Turkish side.

Eventually we Greek Cypriots dealt the fatal blow, the coup de grace. We endeavored in 1963 to amend the Constitution and strip the Turkish Cypriots of the rights we conferred on them in 1960 by our own signature. In other words, Makarios tried to change radically the very same Constitution which three years before he hailed with the words “We have won”.

We were not wise enough. We failed to win the Turkish Cypriot community. We rejected a Constitution which we had signed and which is considered today as a “blessing”, even by people like Tassos Papadopoulos, who realised in 2005 – that is 42 years later – that the Constitution was a blessing (as he said) and that its provisions were constructive. In 1963, however, Tassos and almost all the others scuttled the provisions of the Constitution as if it were an anathema.

Unfortunately, the above mentality persists today as well. So, when Demetris Christofias referred recently to “a partnership which exists since the 1960s”, those who, in effect, have been striving over the years to abort a solution to our problem, felt uncomfortable. They invoked all sorts of legalistic arguments. However, any objective analyst who will study the 85 pages of the Cyprus Constitution, will reach the conclusion that a partnership between the two communities permeates the whole text. There are two communities, whose co-operation is mandatory throughout the whole spectrum of the constitutional functions: The President and the Vice President of the Republic, the House of Representatives, the High Court, the Independent Officers, the Public Service, the Armed Forces. Both communities have a role in all the above; the Constitution cannot function and the country cannot survive without the co-operation of the two communities. If this does not constitute a partnership, I wonder what a partnership could ever be.

Christofias was right when he alluded to those who never believed in the 1960 Agreements and who, by projection, never believed in the Republic of Cyprus. However, he did not dare speak out and say what is self-evident. He did not say that those who never accepted the co-operation between the two communities have, as a consequence, been pursuing the partition of the country.

Since the year 1184, i.e. for 824 years, Cyprus has been under occupation or semi-occupation, with the exception of the period 1960-1974. In the years of Isaac Comnenus, of the Crusaders, the Franks, the Venetians, the Turks, the British and then again the Turks, we never governed ourselves, we were never free. Christofias, even if I disagree with the methodology of the Working Groups and the Technical Committees (which are a legacy of the disastrous Papadopoulos era), tries, under adverse conditions, to refute the old adage that “a mountain will not move to join another mountain”. He tries to get Troodos and Pentadaktylos together. He tries to restore peace and independence after 824 years of occupation.

I do not belong to Christofias’ ideological camp, but I have worked with him many times in the past: from July 1987 to February 1988, when Ezekias Papaioannou appointed him as liaison officer between my party (the Liberal Party) and his party, during the campaign of George Vassiliou, whom we both supported for the Presidency of the Republic. We also worked together in the summer and late autumn of 1992 in New York, when the Ghali Set of Ideas was under negotiation.

I do not believe very much in walls separating people on ideology: in the international arena and especially in the European Union, “right”, “centre”, “socialist” and “left” do not differ that much. What is significant is to believe in the human being and his rights, in social justice and in the values of life. And most importantly to be willing and able to soothe human suffering and to eradicate injustice which afflicts two out of three residents on this planet.

Thus far, Demetris works tirelessly for his country, with courage and realism. It is easy for some people, acting under the mantle of “patriotism”, to pursue the “absolute” which is not feasible and does not exist, to try to appear as heroes and to vilify others who are chasing hope, even in the darkness.

Cyprus will smile again after 824 years of occupation, when Troodos sends a kiss to Pentadaktylos.

[Oracle]

Michalis Ignatiou, "Phileleftheros" and "Ethnos" (mainland Greek newspaper which produced documents that Klerides was a German spy not so long ago) made fools of themselves once again last sunday. Ignatiou thought he unurthed evidence that the USA spent millions to get the Annan Plan through.

Later, it came to our attention that those funds Ignatiou referred to were part of the United Nations aid to Cyprus NGO's and that Papadopoulos's wife Photini got the lion's share! Furthermore, the "deal" was done in 1997, much before the dreaded plan was concieved.

Immediately after the "revelation" Perdikis of the Greens and Karoyian of DIKO jumped on the wagon explaining that they had no doubt that big money was pocketed by the yes platform.

Obviously, our rejectionists are losing sleep over the prospects of a solution. I read that Denktash is not doing much better on the other side. They have so much in common.

I love the way Bananiot conducts his propaganda. He states photini got the money when he knows full well that she is President of the Cyprus Red Cross and its the Red Cross that got the funds. Does he say that though? Nope, it would give a human face to his bogeyman. I'm no fan of Tpap as you well know however, CUT THE CRAP BANANIOT.

Thanks for clearing that up DT.

Bananiot is such a low-life.

I who knows little of Cyprus politics, was immediately led to believe the money went into her private pocket, and I blushed for her.

How dare he manipulate me, and anyone else reading this, with such deliberate distortions. We don't all have time to check up on everything everyone says, and impressions remain.

He is lucky she is above taking notice of such acts of libel.

His other disgraceful habit is his unguarded sexism ... (figure it out from the modes of address!).

Bad Bananiot.

[repulsewarrior]

...nice piece zan, thanks.

[Bananiot]

You are indeed pathetic Oracle. Whenever you desire sympathy you pretend that you do not know. You pretend that you swim in an ocean of ignorance. In this case however it is not your fault really. DT should have known better. When I referred to Photini I did so as in her capacity of President of the Cyprus Red Cross. After all, even fools like you Oracle cannot hide behind ignorance knowing that UN aid money is never paid to individuals but to organisations. In fact I have referred to this money on a number of occasions, especially during the infamous time of Papadopoulos's ambient atmosphere.

Photini is a multi billionaire and on a personal level she has no need for a few thousand dollars. However, some people have a need it seems, to deviate from the topic of the thread. DT does this quite regularly and mostly he criticises people in a very unproductive manner, instead of criticising the ideas that come out of people. In this thread he only saw Bananiot trying to undermine Photini and of course the crazy woman seconded him, right away.

Repulsewarrior, Nikos Rolandis is one of the few persons we have in this banana plantation that talks sense and for this reason you can expect a barrage of abuse from the pavement patriots, any moment now.

Piratis, when you accuse people that you disagree with you that they are the bearers of Turkish propaganda that is fascism. You have had a good teacher on this. Papadopoulos, while President of all Cypriots, claimed that 100 000 people that voted for solution were traitors. He told us that that they were paid good dollars for their treachery and it is up to them to prove that they were not paid! He said that the yes platform says in Greek what the enemy says in Turkish. He also claimed that we spend our time at the court of Xerxes, if you can understand the insinuation. Of course, your clock has stopped at the pre February 17th 2008 period and you find it hard to understand that the "other" opinion is no longer vilified, but, this is not my problem. Papadopoulos was sent packing mostly for his arrogance and his dead end policy on the Cyprob. When you claim that he was "naturally" sent home because people did the usual and voted for their party, you display total ignorance of the statistics of the last election which showed that a sizeable number of DIKO and EDEK members did not vote for Papadopoulos.

P.S. Perhaps you can tell us why you think Denktash opened the gates in 2003, Repulsewarrior.

[Piratis]

Piratis, when you accuse people that you disagree with you that they are the bearers of Turkish propaganda that is fascism. You have had a good teacher on this. Papadopoulos, while President of all Cypriots, claimed that 100 000 people that voted for solution were traitors. He told us that that they were paid good dollars for their treachery and it is up to them to prove that they were not paid! He said that the yes platform says in Greek what the enemy says in Turkish. He also claimed that we spend our time at the court of Xerxes, if you can understand the insinuation. Of course, your clock has stopped at the pre February 17th 2008 period and you find it hard to understand that the "other" opinion is no longer vilified, but, this is not my problem. Papadopoulos was sent packing mostly for his arrogance and his dead end policy on the Cyprob. When you claim that he was "naturally" sent home because people did the usual and voted for their party, you display total ignorance of the statistics of the last election which showed that a sizeable number of DIKO and EDEK members did not vote for Papadopoulos.

Papadopoulos never said that those that voted "yes" were paid to to so. Those who were paid were those in charge of the "yes" campaign.

And of course you say in Greek what the enemy says in Turkish. Here that we all talk English it is even easier to see that you and Turks say the exact same thing. When was the last time you had an argument with the Turkish partitionists on this forum? You always support them, and they always support you. You are one and the same.

And then you come to accuse Papadopoulos because he is stating the obvious. As if we wouldn't notice if Papadopoulos had not point it out

[Bananiot]

I am not here to talk with the Turkish Cypriot partitionists. I have never known any and I have never made friends with them. I am here to talk with the Greek Cypriot partitionists among whom I live and whose views I can practically contradict. Papadopoulos was a top class partitionist since a long time ago, when he said that "today we lost 50000 pounds your Beautitude". That was strong "patriotic" talk of course and only the visionary (just like nowdays) knew that this mentality would lead us to disaster.

[Nikitas]

Bananiot said:

"Nikitas, are you seriously claiming that if you named Simitis in this forum as being at the receiving end of these moneys you would be prosecuted? "

I was referring to journalists who were paid to promote the Annan plan. Not politicians who openly supported it. These journalists are the one who now display wealth beyond their means. Some of them, although coming from the traditionally anti American left, had no problem accepting trips to the US and contracts to deliver seminars to other journalists to brief them on the Annan plan.

When people who, in a one on one situation, make fun of you to your face because you are a Cypriot, who privately confess that they think Cypriots are born dumb, suddenly appear on TV and radio as the concerned champions of peace for Cyprus, then you know something is wrong.

[Nikitas]

Zan that was an interesting piece by Rolandis.

[Piratis]

I am not here to talk with the Turkish Cypriot partitionists. I have never known any and I have never made friends with them. I am here to talk with the Greek Cypriot partitionists among whom I live and whose views I can practically contradict. Papadopoulos was a top class partitionist since a long time ago, when he said that "today we lost 50000 pounds your Beautitude". That was strong "patriotic" talk of course and only the visionary (just like nowdays) knew that this mentality would lead us to disaster.

If you wanted to talk to Greek Cypriots you would do so in Greek in a Greek language forum. You are here exactly to offer your support to the Turkish propaganda so stop denying the obvious.

The Greek Cypriot partitionists are those who accept that 1/3rd of our island should by Turkified and ruled by Turks. That is YOU. W

We reject partition and the claims of Turks against our island, while you accept them.

And what is that story about the "50000 pounds"? Another Turkish propaganda creation which you adopted maybe?