Cyprus-Forum.com

[Novus]

i find it very sad that people...good people...have to go through life scared of a bunch of stats.

I have seen the violent crime, I know it is for real even without stats or news stories.
What I find sad is people claiming I people have a reason to defend themself or need a handgun for protection when there are over a million violent crime victims every year in America. For those million or so people every year, violent crime is a personal reality.
Violent crime is just a statistic until you are the victim of it.

[Novus]

there is a big difference in the amount of crimes because we have a larger country, bigger population, more people per capita or however that goes. of course stats are gonna be high. but i would rather live here than anywhere else in the world. and i feel very safe here.

Of course the amount of crimes committed will increase with the amount of people living in a certain area. If 1% (just a number for arguments sake) of a population are likely to be criminals the US would have 2.9 million criminals, the UK 600000, Sweden 80000 and Cyprus 8000.

But...

This doesn't change the fact that the US has a higher rate of violent crimes (read murders) than most countries in the EU looking at murders per capita.

Colombia, South Africa and Jamaica are the top 3 countries to avoid if you hold your life dear. The USA is ranked at #24. Not that bad perhaps. But keep in mind that the UK, which people emigrate from because of violent crimes, is ranked at #46. Sweden and Cyprus are not even on the list. And there is enough horrible stuff happening in Sweden to make people worried about the future.

Some numbers although you didn't want them:

Colombia - 0.617847 murders per 1000 people
South Africa - 0.496008 per 1,00 people
Jamaica - 0.324196 per 1000 people

And as you can see the USA looks like heaven compared to the above:

USA - 0.042802 per 1000 people

But look at the UK:

0.0140633 per 1000 people

And Greece:

0.0075928 per 1000 people

Big difference between the US and the UK to begin with. But compared to Greece the US certainly looks like a hellhole to be avoided if you don't want to be a number in these statistics. Judging from these numbers the USA has an average of 124126 murders every year. That's a lot, even if there are 290 million of you.

Sweden has a population of about 9 million. In the late 80's/early 90's there was about 120 to 150 murders/year. Since 2000 until today it's been about 200 murders each year.... at least a 50% increase in the last 10-20 years.

How many murders are there in the whole of Cyprus in a year? Let's make it easy for us and say there's 1 million people living in Cyprus. How many murders do you think there is?

Using the statistics for the USA there would be 42-43 murders/year in the USA if you only had a population of 1 million. I seriously doubt the numbers for Cyprus would even come close to that.

If Sweden was as bad as the USA (using the statistics above) we would have 385 murders every year. So my conclusion is that the US is almost twice as dangerous as Sweden if you hold your life dear. And according to the UN Quatar is the safest spot on earth.

Looking at just the murder rate is a little askew because if you compare overall violent crime, the UK is many times more violent than the US.

In the US there were about 1.4 million violent crimes. In the US violent crime is rape, robbery, murder and aggravated assault (aggravated assault is assault with a weapon or with intent to kill/maim)

In the UK there were about 1.2 million violent crimes, but of that number minor assault with injury is included (sometimes it is in the US too) and so is harrasment, so if we exclude those numbers we are left with 800,000 equivalent violent crimes in the UK.

Since the UK has one fifth the population this means they have twice the violent crime rate or thereabouts. The UK you are more likely to be raped, stabbed, brutally beaten, and mugged than in the US by a factor of at least 2.

....and this is without even mentioning supposedly non-violent crime of burglary. In the UK burglary is many times more than it is in the US.....I guess when criminals know they may get shot they are less likely to break into someone's home.

[Novus]

I spent 2 weeks in Atlanta Georgia and never felt safe at night, I asked a barman at my hotel the directions to a decent bar and when I set of walking he was horrified and insisted on getting me a taxi saying it was to dangerous to walk the short distance.

At the risk of making the thread into the usual the same could be said of Istanbul.

Yeah, but at least in Atlanta you can carry a handgun for protection (with a permit).

[Oracle]

I spent 2 weeks in Atlanta Georgia and never felt safe at night, I asked a barman at my hotel the directions to a decent bar and when I set of walking he was horrified and insisted on getting me a taxi saying it was to dangerous to walk the short distance.

At the risk of making the thread into the usual the same could be said of Istanbul.

Yeah, but at least in Atlanta you can carry a handgun for protection (with a permit).

Excuse me but how does carrying a handgun protect you when somebody else carrying a handgun comes up from behind and shoots you

Surely no one should be carrying lethal weapons.

[Novus]

I spent 2 weeks in Atlanta Georgia and never felt safe at night, I asked a barman at my hotel the directions to a decent bar and when I set of walking he was horrified and insisted on getting me a taxi saying it was to dangerous to walk the short distance.

At the risk of making the thread into the usual the same could be said of Istanbul.

Yeah, but at least in Atlanta you can carry a handgun for protection (with a permit).

Excuse me but how does carrying a handgun protect you when somebody else carrying a handgun comes up from behind and shoots you

First of all, how often does that happen in real life?
Second of all, unless they hit the central nervous system, you might be able to turn around and shoot back before they can finish the job (has actually happened).
Third, what about the millions of other times where a gun was successfully used in this country to protect from an attack?

Having and using a gun will not always save your life, but it sure as hell gives you a damn good better chance of living.

Surely no one should be carrying lethal weapons.

Ever heard of someone beat to death with hands and feet? About 1,000 people are murdered that way in the US every year.

The criminals should not be allowed to carry dangerous weapons by law, but sadly they do not obey the law....they are criminals after all. Disarming the law abiding only makes them defensless against a still armed criminal element.

This is not Cyprus where violent crime of all types (besides bar brawls) is almost non-existent. This is a part of the world where the criminals are vicious, bold and prolific. As long as they exist in society, we need our lethal weapons for defense.
Even in the parts of the US where there are almost no criminals, there are still dangerous animals. Ever seen a rabid skunk or have you ever seen what a black bear can do to someone? Ever seen a pit bull attack victim?

[Oracle]

Excuse me but how does carrying a handgun protect you when somebody else carrying a handgun comes up from behind and shoots you

First of all, how often does that happen in real life?
Second of all, unless they hit the central nervous system, you might be able to turn around and shoot back before they can finish the job (has actually happened).
Third, what about the millions of other times where a gun was successfully used in this country to protect from an attack?

Having and using a gun will not always save your life, but it sure as hell gives you a damn good better chance of living.

Surely no one should be carrying lethal weapons.

Ever heard of someone beat to death with hands and feet? About 1,000 people are murdered that way in the US every year.

The criminals should not be allowed to carry dangerous weapons by law, but sadly they do not obey the law....they are criminals after all. Disarming the law abiding only makes them defensless against a still armed criminal element.

This is not Cyprus where violent crime of all types (besides bar brawls) is almost non-existent. This is a part of the world where the criminals are vicious, bold and prolific. As long as they exist in society, we need our lethal weapons for defense.
Even in the parts of the US where there are almost no criminals, there are still dangerous animals. Ever seen a rabid skunk or have you ever seen what a black bear can do to someone? Ever seen a pit bull attack victim?

So a gun allows you to go places you otherwise may not have ventured to? Gives you a survival advantage (whether you deserve the advantage or not). A gun makes you "equal" to a bear, so you can survive in his environment, but destroy him instead.

Goes against the Laws of Nature

[Novus]

So a gun allows you to go places you otherwise may not have ventured to? Gives you a survival advantage (whether you deserve the advantage or not). A gun makes you "equal" to a bear, so you can survive in his environment, but destroy him instead.

Goes against the Laws of Nature

Laws of nature? If you haven't noticed it is a bear-eat-man/man-eat-bear kind of world out there. Since mankind has existed we have hunted, killed and eaten animals.
A bear knows no boundaries. They will also enter human habitat and sometimes attack people, even in their own homes.
Since about 30 years ago the black bear population has probably dolubled and they are spreading their territories (same with coyotes). While one does not want to kill a bear out of hand, one also does not want to be eaten by a bear.
I am sorry, I love bears but if it comes down to me or the bear, the bear is gonna gonna get shot. If a bear comes after a family member, it is gonna get shot. If it comes after my picnic basket....meh, I'll just call Natrual Resources and let them take care of it.

What about rabid dogs or dogs raised to be violent? Do we as humans have a right to protect ourselves or out family and pets against them?
Would you rather see people mauled or dead by a pit bull than to see some people defend themselves with a firearm? I never understood that logic.

[Oracle]

So a gun allows you to go places you otherwise may not have ventured to? Gives you a survival advantage (whether you deserve the advantage or not). A gun makes you "equal" to a bear, so you can survive in his environment, but destroy him instead.

Goes against the Laws of Nature

Laws of nature? If you haven't noticed it is a bear-eat-man/man-eat-bear kind of world out there. Since mankind has existed we have hunted, killed and eaten animals.
A bear knows no boundaries. They will also enter human habitat and sometimes attack people, even in their own homes.
Since about 30 years ago the black bear population has probably dolubled and they are spreading their territories (same with coyotes). While one does not want to kill a bear out of hand, one also does not want to be eaten by a bear.
I am sorry, I love bears but if it comes down to me or the bear, the bear is gonna gonna get shot. If a bear comes after a family member, it is gonna get shot. If it comes after my picnic basket....meh, I'll just call Natrual Resources and let them take care of it.

What about rabid dogs or dogs raised to be violent? Do we as humans have a right to protect ourselves or out family and pets against them?
Would you rather see people mauled or dead by a pit bull than to see some people defend themselves with a firearm? I never understood that logic.

Novus ... I know this is a "Catch 22" situation.

Since one person has a gun, everybody else has to have one to protect themselves from this gun, and so on.

Too late.

There is no putting everything back in Pandora's Box.

It's just sad to look at the sickness in the States and know we are headed that way and there is no getting off. We need a multilateral disarmament and America will not join us.

[Novus]

So a gun allows you to go places you otherwise may not have ventured to? Gives you a survival advantage (whether you deserve the advantage or not). A gun makes you "equal" to a bear, so you can survive in his environment, but destroy him instead.

Goes against the Laws of Nature

Laws of nature? If you haven't noticed it is a bear-eat-man/man-eat-bear kind of world out there. Since mankind has existed we have hunted, killed and eaten animals.
A bear knows no boundaries. They will also enter human habitat and sometimes attack people, even in their own homes.
Since about 30 years ago the black bear population has probably dolubled and they are spreading their territories (same with coyotes). While one does not want to kill a bear out of hand, one also does not want to be eaten by a bear.
I am sorry, I love bears but if it comes down to me or the bear, the bear is gonna gonna get shot. If a bear comes after a family member, it is gonna get shot. If it comes after my picnic basket....meh, I'll just call Natrual Resources and let them take care of it.

What about rabid dogs or dogs raised to be violent? Do we as humans have a right to protect ourselves or out family and pets against them?
Would you rather see people mauled or dead by a pit bull than to see some people defend themselves with a firearm? I never understood that logic.

Novus ... I know this is a "Catch 22" situation.

Since one person has a gun, everybody else has to have one to protect themselves from this gun, and so on.

Too late.

There is no putting everything back in Pandora's Box.

It's just sad to look at the sickness in the States and know we are headed that way and there is no getting off.

The US does not have a "sickness", we have a lot of violent criminals is what we have. Fortunately the violent criminals only makes up maybe a thousandth of the population here and only maybe ten percent of them are constant offenders. About ten percent of the criminals commit 70% of the crime here. Once we remove them from society and fix the problems that would have helped let a new batch become criminals, we will not have these problems in nearly the same degree. However, there is no way to totally prevent some people from becomming criminals and therefore we will always have some in our society and we will still need a defense against them. Even mostly crime free Cyprus has murders.

We need a multilateral disarmament and America will not join us

This is not directed at you, multilateral disarmament is the stupidest thing I have ever heard of. For people to think the gun cannot be uininvented is too amazing to even try to fathom. Guns are easy to make and ammunition, while a little harder, is not that hard. Even if we removed all guns from our societies, in a few years the criminals will have made and will use some of these: http://www.thehomegunsmith.com/introduction.shtml

All disarmament does is to disarm the law abiding. There is no benefit of a total firearm ban. Just look at Jamaica, they banned all firearms over 30 years ago and yet they have a higher gun murder rate than the United States does. They often make their own guns. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xL6rCTLC0Go

Now compare Jamaica to Cyprus, they are both island nations, but I read somewhere Cyprus 36 firearms per 100 people (mostly shotguns), yet very few murders in Cyprus occur....why? Because Cyprus has almost no violent criminals, or if they do they are not able to repeat their violent crimes over and over. It is not the presence of legally held guns, it is the number of criminals present that is the problem in any given society.

Instead of anti self defense rights organizations like IANSA calling for a ban on all firearms, they should be working on removing criminals in the societies. The call for banning firearms is a red herring.

[GorillaGal]

I find it very sad that so many Americans are unable to see the faults with their own country but so eager to point out the shortcomings of others. You'll remain the biggest, the best and the bravest until the bitter end won't you?

For the record, I'm not scared of a bunch of stats. But I'm smart enough to acknowledge that the stats actually reflect something... the reality. It's not like someone made a list with random numbers just because he/she had nothing better to do. You have more murders per capita than so many other countries, why not admit that there is something wrong?

why admit it? because this thread is about police force in CY, on a forum about CY. i haev no problem admitting that the USA has problems, and alot of them. we are, after all, a hell of alot larger than CY, with a hell of alot more people, from a hell of alot different countries (including a hell of alot of cypriots).