Cyprus-Forum.com

[Nikitas]

Oracle,

Ammohostos, for us inhabitants of that most beautiful city is the name used to refer to the old walled city. Varosi is the area outside the walls and was inhabited by GCs, whereas the old city was TC.

Interesting that when Lala Mustafa Pasha took the city, at the time regarded as one of the richest in the Mediterranean, the Christian inhabitants were displaced by Ottomans. The marshy and swampy land outside the walls was called a Varoush, a suburb, and Christians were allowed to settle there. Even when I was growing up there, in the 50s and 60s it was considered damp and not as "healthy" as higher elevations. I guess that opinion was a remnant from the malaria days. Malaria was not eradicated till the 40s when the UN (not the British) had a programme which involved th planting of a eucalyptus forest covering much of the coast all the way past Salamis. I hear that part of the forest is still there.

Ammohostos has gradually displaced the name Varosi, but it is not the proper name for the GC part of the place.

[Oracle]

Nikitas in my family we refered to Famagusta as Amohosto ... no distinctions between supposed Tc or Gc parts or divisions.

I think such archaic renderings bequeathed to us by Brits or Ottomans have no place in a modern EU-Cyprus which seeks to abandon these derisory distinctions and prepare a Democratic whole ...

After all who calls St Albans by the Roman name Verulamium nowadays?

[Nikitas]

Oracle,

Common parlance being what it is once a name is given it tends to stick. Just think of what we call the inhabitants of Varosi/Ammohostos, we call the Varosiotes. I have never heard any of us use the word Ammohostianos!

I have no problem with using Turkish names which came about through ling use and custom. In some ways the Turkish customary name might reveal a lot about the history of the place and in some cases prove its true origin, as in the case of Varosi, which shows how the GCs were expelled to the Varoush, or which might be something totally different, neither TC or GC, ie Arab Keuy on that map.

For years I thought Kazafani was a Turkish name for a TC village. Then I came across the original name which was Casa Theofani showing Latin origins probably Venetian.

Often the survival and tenacity of the indigenous population is proven by these seemingly foreign names. A case that illustrates the point being the poet Vincenzo Cornaro who wrote the epic Erotokritos. He was Venetian, some sneer, yes he was, but when he went to Venice to present his poem he took his brother along to act as interpreter because Vicenzo himself could not speak Italian! History always needs a second, more careful reading!

[Oracle]

I call the places names .. but I call the inhabitants ... people!

Other than some crude National distinctions, why would anyone label someone by a town ... we all move around so much, it is such a backward description.

Place names are important within the National boundaries though, but as historical and administrative centres ... not to divide or enclave people.

That's why I do not believe you can call a village TC or GC ... but just an RoC village ....

People are fluid, places are more fixed.

[iceman]

English names? What English names other than Lady's Mile are there in Cyprus?

As for changing after 1974 that is TOTALLY inaccurate. In fact the use of names as I recall, and my memory is pretty good, was always based on the most widely known name, so Famagusta was always called by its given name which was Varosi and as far as I know it was a Turkish word. Ammohostos was the name for the old walled city. Lefkosia is named after an ancient Greek Cypriot King and that was thousands of years ago, Lemesos was always Lemesos, and I have never heard any conversation in which it was referred to as Limassol between Cypriots.

Denktash has written enough about the reasons behind the name changes to put an end to all conjecture. It is funny that he comes from a Turkish village with the most Greek name of Ayios Vassilios who was a saint of Cesarea in Asia Minor, the one they call Kaiseri now. Which is the birth place if Saint Nikitas too by the way!

Nikitas
I am afraid your knowledge on place names not so accurate..
Nicosia,which you are trying to wipe off the records and replace with Lefkosia is NOT a name the British invented..it is the oldest name of the city...
Also Limassol is the same...As is Famagusta

[Rebel.Without.A.Pause]

Nikitas
I am afraid your knowledge on place names not so accurate..
Nicosia,which you are trying to wipe off the records and replace with Lefkosia is NOT a name the British invented..it is the oldest name of the city...
Also Limassol is the same...As is Famagusta

Iceman you are wrong im afriad. 'Nicosia' is the Frankish pronounciation of Lefkosia. Lefkosia was a town originally called Ledra in ancient times, which was rebuilt by the son of Ptolemy, Lefkos, around 300BC.

[repulsewarrior]

I call the places names .. but I call the inhabitants ... people!

Other than some crude National distinctions, why would anyone label someone by a town ... we all move around so much, it is such a backward description.

Place names are important within the National boundaries though, but as historical and administrative centres ... not to divide or enclave people.

That's why I do not believe you can call a village TC or GC ... but just an RoC village ....

People are fluid, places are more fixed.

no way oracle, to feel really free, and to be able to travel the world, you need to be fixed like a tree, with a root, ...and that makes origin so important. even if I was born away from my home, you can never replace my grandmother's avlie for the security it represented to me, because our neighbours were a Turkish family who like us were there as neighbours for hundreds of years, or my great aunts home, which is even older (in a neighbourhood with its own distinctions and glory). knowing that the trees we tended, some as old as the Apostle Paul himself, was the foundation from which the diaspora of my family like many Cypriots (actually) who with the coming of the Modern Age became mobile as well.

I would find it strange if after 350 years of habitation there were no Turkish names and no villages founded by Turcophones. Wholesale changes to the toponomy, as in 1974, on the other hand cut deeply, and it is an affront whose harm by its magnitude, is a loss felt by all Mankind.

[iceman]

Nikitas
I am afraid your knowledge on place names not so accurate..
Nicosia,which you are trying to wipe off the records and replace with Lefkosia is NOT a name the British invented..it is the oldest name of the city...
Also Limassol is the same...As is Famagusta

Iceman you are wrong im afriad. 'Nicosia' is the Frankish pronounciation of Lefkosia. Lefkosia was a town originally called Ledra in ancient times, which was rebuilt by the son of Ptolemy, Lefkos, around 300BC.

Rebel
I do not mind being corrected if/when i am wrong.Thank you for the information you provided regarding Nicosia/Lefkosia.
The point i am trying to make is,no matter what the story behind them there used to be town names such as Nicosia/Limassol/Famagusta writen on traffic signs before 1974 in Latin alphabet (as well as Greek versions in Greek alphabet) First thing i realised when crossed over after the checkpoints opened was that these names on road signs were replaced by Greek versions writen in Latin alphabet (Lefkosia/Lemesos).
Why was this change necessary?I can understand Turkish versions not being used but why change the English versions?

[iceman]

I call the places names .. but I call the inhabitants ... people!

Other than some crude National distinctions, why would anyone label someone by a town ... we all move around so much, it is such a backward description.

Place names are important within the National boundaries though, but as historical and administrative centres ... not to divide or enclave people.

That's why I do not believe you can call a village TC or GC ... but just an RoC village ....

People are fluid, places are more fixed.

no way oracle, to feel really free, and to be able to travel the world, you need to be fixed like a tree, with a root, ...and that makes origin so important. even if I was born away from my home, you can never replace my grandmother's avlie for the security it represented to me, because our neighbours were a Turkish family who like us were there as neighbours for hundreds of years, or my great aunts home, which is even older (in a neighbourhood with its own distinctions and glory). knowing that the trees we tended, some as old as the Apostle Paul himself, was the foundation from which the diaspora of my family like many Cypriots (actually) who with the coming of the Modern Age became mobile as well.

I would find it strange if after 350 years of habitation there were no Turkish names and no villages founded by Turcophones. Wholesale changes to the toponomy, as in 1974, on the other hand cut deeply, and it is an affront whose harm by its magnitude, is a loss felt by all Mankind.

repulsewarrior
The change of place names after 1974 by Denktas administration has not been welcomed by too many TC's and many people still use the old names they are used to.But the danger is the new generation do not know the difference and they grow up with only the new names.

[Nikitas]

Being word oriented by profession I look at the etymology of words. Fama Gusta, sounds like Fameglorious looking at the Latin roots. A name which the Venetians gave the place. But the Venetians did not find it empty of people, it must have been called something before that by the locals. Ammo Hostos, buried in the sand, was it used before the Venetians? I do not know, but there is plenty of sand there for sure!

Varosi, from Varoush, the place to which the subservient local were banished, so as not to crowd Famagusta. If you refer to Thomson's writings, of 1878, he says some interesting things about the fever in the area and the creativity of the inhabitans of Varosi.

As to the origins of Nicosia it has been settled. Now as to Limasol, that is a tough one. Anyone know the etymology of the word?