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More Disturbing News: Cruelty Against Humans!!!!

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Postby Paphitis » Mon Aug 04, 2008 9:59 am

miltiades wrote:You are of course conveniently forgetting that Sadam was a brutal murderer who used mustard gas to kill thousands of Iraqis , who even massacred members of his own family.In time when Iraq establishes itself as a democracy and violence diminishes , the Iraqi people will reflect and will be grateful that the US removed the beast that ruled over them with sheer brutality. You are also forgetting , conveniently again , that the killing in Iraq today is not carried out by the Americans or the British but by the savages who blow themselves up in markets , places of worship and anywhere else where innocents gather.
Iran must never be tolerated and allowed to fully develop weapons that would hold the entire region hostage to the theocratic zealots who consider death more valuable than life . History will justify the action taken by the West and the one to be taken soon.


I think it is pointless discussing anything with you.

The absence of Saddam, leaves a massive power vacuum and until this is filled by a ruthless dictator with iron fist rule, there will be more bloodshed. Iraq is not ready for democracy. Most Iraqi's are very soft and humble people, with a few tribal warlords fighting it out for power and control of the country. And then you have the insurgence.
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Postby Paphitis » Mon Aug 04, 2008 10:22 am

You also mention the chemical attacks on Kurds. This chemical capability was obtained by Iraq from pro Western governments, including the US and, some NATO members!!!! So you can imagine the implications!

International sources for technology and chemical precursors
The know-how and material for developing chemical weapons were obtained by Saddam's regime from foreign firms.[12] By far, the largest suppliers of precursors for chemical weapons production were in Singapore (4,515 tons), the Netherlands (4,261 tons), Egypt (2,400 tons), India (2,343 tons), and West Germany (1,027 tons). One Indian company, Exomet Plastics (now part of EPC Industrie Ltd.) sent 2,292 tons of precursor chemicals to Iraq. The Kim Al-Khaleej firm, located in Singapore and affiliated to United Arab Emirates, supplied more than 4,500 tons of VX, sarin, and mustard gas precursors and production equipment to Iraq.[13]

The provision of chemical precursors from United States companies to Iraq was enabled by a Ronald Reagan administration policy that removed Iraq from the State Department's list State Sponsors of Terrorism. Leaked portions of Iraq's "Full, Final and Complete" disclosure of the sources for its weapons programs shows that thiodiglycol, a substance needed to manufacture mustard gas, was among the chemical precursors provided to Iraq from US companies such as Alcolac International and Phillips. Both companies have since undergone reorganization and Phillips, once a subsidiary of Phillips Petroleum and now part of ConocoPhillips, an American oil and energy company while Alcolac International has since dissolved and reformed as Alcolac Inc.[14]

On March 12, 2008, the democratic government of Iraq announced plans to take legal action against the suppliers of chemicals used in the poison gas attack.[15]


Another thing you seem to forget is that the US was an accomplice to these war crimes and actually tried to blame Iran for the bombings as Iraq enjoyed Washington's support at the time of the Iran - Iraq war!

Early U.S. allegations of Iranian involvement

U.S. soldier on patrol in Halabja cemetery for the victims of the gas attack in 2005. An investigation into responsibility for the Halabja massacre, by Dr Jean Pascal Zanders, Project Leader of the Chemical and Biological Warfare Project at the Stockholm International Peace Research Institute (SIPRI) concluded in 2007 that Iraq was the culprit, and not Iran. The U.S. State Department, however, in the immediate aftermath of the incident, took the official position based on examination of available evidence that Iran was partly to blame.[7]

A preliminary Defense Intelligence Agency (DIA) study at the time reported that it was Iran that was responsible for the attack, an assessment which was used subsequently by the Central Intelligence Agency (CIA) for much of the early 1990s. The CIA's senior political analyst for the Iran-Iraq war, Stephen C. Pelletiere, co-authored an unclassified analysis of the war[16] which contained a brief summary of the DIA study's key points. The CIA altered its position radically in the late 1990s and cited Halabja frequently in its evidence of weapons of mass destructions WMD before the 2003 invasion of Iraq. Pelletiere claims that a fact that has not been successfully challenged is that Iraq is not known to have possessed the cyanide-based blood agents determined to have been responsible for the condition of the bodies that were examined[17] and that blue discolorations around the mouths of the victims and in their extremities[18] pointed to Iranian-used gas as the culprit. Some opponents to the Iraq sanctions have cited the DIA report to support their position that Iraq was not responsible for the Halabja attack.

Joost Hiltermann, who was the principal researcher for the HRW between 1992-1994, conducted a two-year study, including a field investigation in northern Iraq, capturing Iraqi government documents in the process. According to his analysis of thousands of captured Iraqi secret police documents and declassified U.S. government documents, as well as interviews with scores of Kurdish survivors, senior Iraqi defectors and retired U.S. intelligence officers, it is clear that Iraq carried out the attack on Halabja, and that the United States, fully aware of this, accused Iran, Iraq's enemy in a fierce war, of being partly responsible for the attack.[7] This research concluded there were numerous other gas attacks, unquestionably perpetrated against the Kurds by the Iraqi armed forces. According to Hiltermann, the literature on the Iran-Iraq war reflects a number of allegations of chemical weapons use by Iran, but these are "marred by a lack of specificity as to time and place, and the failure to provide any sort of evidence". He calls these allegations "mere assertions" and adds: "no persuasive evidence of the claim that Iran was the primary culprit was ever presented".


So Miltiades, I rest my case! Saddam was a murderer and an invention of the West. As always, you lose your credibility by believing what you read with The Sun. :lol: :lol: Eliko is right. You are so gullible! :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
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Postby miltiades » Mon Aug 04, 2008 12:19 pm

Paphitis wrote:You also mention the chemical attacks on Kurds. This chemical capability was obtained by Iraq from pro Western governments, including the US and, some NATO members!!!! So you can imagine the implications!

International sources for technology and chemical precursors
The know-how and material for developing chemical weapons were obtained by Saddam's regime from foreign firms.[12] By far, the largest suppliers of precursors for chemical weapons production were in Singapore (4,515 tons), the Netherlands (4,261 tons), Egypt (2,400 tons), India (2,343 tons), and West Germany (1,027 tons). One Indian company, Exomet Plastics (now part of EPC Industrie Ltd.) sent 2,292 tons of precursor chemicals to Iraq. The Kim Al-Khaleej firm, located in Singapore and affiliated to United Arab Emirates, supplied more than 4,500 tons of VX, sarin, and mustard gas precursors and production equipment to Iraq.[13]

The provision of chemical precursors from United States companies to Iraq was enabled by a Ronald Reagan administration policy that removed Iraq from the State Department's list State Sponsors of Terrorism. Leaked portions of Iraq's "Full, Final and Complete" disclosure of the sources for its weapons programs shows that thiodiglycol, a substance needed to manufacture mustard gas, was among the chemical precursors provided to Iraq from US companies such as Alcolac International and Phillips. Both companies have since undergone reorganization and Phillips, once a subsidiary of Phillips Petroleum and now part of ConocoPhillips, an American oil and energy company while Alcolac International has since dissolved and reformed as Alcolac Inc.[14]

On March 12, 2008, the democratic government of Iraq announced plans to take legal action against the suppliers of chemicals used in the poison gas attack.[15]


Another thing you seem to forget is that the US was an accomplice to these war crimes and actually tried to blame Iran for the bombings as Iraq enjoyed Washington's support at the time of the Iran - Iraq war!

Early U.S. allegations of Iranian involvement

U.S. soldier on patrol in Halabja cemetery for the victims of the gas attack in 2005. An investigation into responsibility for the Halabja massacre, by Dr Jean Pascal Zanders, Project Leader of the Chemical and Biological Warfare Project at the Stockholm International Peace Research Institute (SIPRI) concluded in 2007 that Iraq was the culprit, and not Iran. The U.S. State Department, however, in the immediate aftermath of the incident, took the official position based on examination of available evidence that Iran was partly to blame.[7]

A preliminary Defense Intelligence Agency (DIA) study at the time reported that it was Iran that was responsible for the attack, an assessment which was used subsequently by the Central Intelligence Agency (CIA) for much of the early 1990s. The CIA's senior political analyst for the Iran-Iraq war, Stephen C. Pelletiere, co-authored an unclassified analysis of the war[16] which contained a brief summary of the DIA study's key points. The CIA altered its position radically in the late 1990s and cited Halabja frequently in its evidence of weapons of mass destructions WMD before the 2003 invasion of Iraq. Pelletiere claims that a fact that has not been successfully challenged is that Iraq is not known to have possessed the cyanide-based blood agents determined to have been responsible for the condition of the bodies that were examined[17] and that blue discolorations around the mouths of the victims and in their extremities[18] pointed to Iranian-used gas as the culprit. Some opponents to the Iraq sanctions have cited the DIA report to support their position that Iraq was not responsible for the Halabja attack.

Joost Hiltermann, who was the principal researcher for the HRW between 1992-1994, conducted a two-year study, including a field investigation in northern Iraq, capturing Iraqi government documents in the process. According to his analysis of thousands of captured Iraqi secret police documents and declassified U.S. government documents, as well as interviews with scores of Kurdish survivors, senior Iraqi defectors and retired U.S. intelligence officers, it is clear that Iraq carried out the attack on Halabja, and that the United States, fully aware of this, accused Iran, Iraq's enemy in a fierce war, of being partly responsible for the attack.[7] This research concluded there were numerous other gas attacks, unquestionably perpetrated against the Kurds by the Iraqi armed forces. According to Hiltermann, the literature on the Iran-Iraq war reflects a number of allegations of chemical weapons use by Iran, but these are "marred by a lack of specificity as to time and place, and the failure to provide any sort of evidence". He calls these allegations "mere assertions" and adds: "no persuasive evidence of the claim that Iran was the primary culprit was ever presented".


So Miltiades, I rest my case! Saddam was a murderer and an invention of the West. As always, you lose your credibility by believing what you read with The Sun. :lol: :lol: Eliko is right. You are so gullible! :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

Why should a successful businessman be reading the gutter press may I ask .
As for Iraq needing a ruthless dictator may I disagree , what Iraq need is democracy and the people of Iraq deserve a great deal more than what you suggest they should have.
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Postby denizaksulu » Mon Aug 04, 2008 12:29 pm

miltiades wrote:
Paphitis wrote:You also mention the chemical attacks on Kurds. This chemical capability was obtained by Iraq from pro Western governments, including the US and, some NATO members!!!! So you can imagine the implications!

International sources for technology and chemical precursors
The know-how and material for developing chemical weapons were obtained by Saddam's regime from foreign firms.[12] By far, the largest suppliers of precursors for chemical weapons production were in Singapore (4,515 tons), the Netherlands (4,261 tons), Egypt (2,400 tons), India (2,343 tons), and West Germany (1,027 tons). One Indian company, Exomet Plastics (now part of EPC Industrie Ltd.) sent 2,292 tons of precursor chemicals to Iraq. The Kim Al-Khaleej firm, located in Singapore and affiliated to United Arab Emirates, supplied more than 4,500 tons of VX, sarin, and mustard gas precursors and production equipment to Iraq.[13]

The provision of chemical precursors from United States companies to Iraq was enabled by a Ronald Reagan administration policy that removed Iraq from the State Department's list State Sponsors of Terrorism. Leaked portions of Iraq's "Full, Final and Complete" disclosure of the sources for its weapons programs shows that thiodiglycol, a substance needed to manufacture mustard gas, was among the chemical precursors provided to Iraq from US companies such as Alcolac International and Phillips. Both companies have since undergone reorganization and Phillips, once a subsidiary of Phillips Petroleum and now part of ConocoPhillips, an American oil and energy company while Alcolac International has since dissolved and reformed as Alcolac Inc.[14]

On March 12, 2008, the democratic government of Iraq announced plans to take legal action against the suppliers of chemicals used in the poison gas attack.[15]


Another thing you seem to forget is that the US was an accomplice to these war crimes and actually tried to blame Iran for the bombings as Iraq enjoyed Washington's support at the time of the Iran - Iraq war!

Early U.S. allegations of Iranian involvement

U.S. soldier on patrol in Halabja cemetery for the victims of the gas attack in 2005. An investigation into responsibility for the Halabja massacre, by Dr Jean Pascal Zanders, Project Leader of the Chemical and Biological Warfare Project at the Stockholm International Peace Research Institute (SIPRI) concluded in 2007 that Iraq was the culprit, and not Iran. The U.S. State Department, however, in the immediate aftermath of the incident, took the official position based on examination of available evidence that Iran was partly to blame.[7]

A preliminary Defense Intelligence Agency (DIA) study at the time reported that it was Iran that was responsible for the attack, an assessment which was used subsequently by the Central Intelligence Agency (CIA) for much of the early 1990s. The CIA's senior political analyst for the Iran-Iraq war, Stephen C. Pelletiere, co-authored an unclassified analysis of the war[16] which contained a brief summary of the DIA study's key points. The CIA altered its position radically in the late 1990s and cited Halabja frequently in its evidence of weapons of mass destructions WMD before the 2003 invasion of Iraq. Pelletiere claims that a fact that has not been successfully challenged is that Iraq is not known to have possessed the cyanide-based blood agents determined to have been responsible for the condition of the bodies that were examined[17] and that blue discolorations around the mouths of the victims and in their extremities[18] pointed to Iranian-used gas as the culprit. Some opponents to the Iraq sanctions have cited the DIA report to support their position that Iraq was not responsible for the Halabja attack.

Joost Hiltermann, who was the principal researcher for the HRW between 1992-1994, conducted a two-year study, including a field investigation in northern Iraq, capturing Iraqi government documents in the process. According to his analysis of thousands of captured Iraqi secret police documents and declassified U.S. government documents, as well as interviews with scores of Kurdish survivors, senior Iraqi defectors and retired U.S. intelligence officers, it is clear that Iraq carried out the attack on Halabja, and that the United States, fully aware of this, accused Iran, Iraq's enemy in a fierce war, of being partly responsible for the attack.[7] This research concluded there were numerous other gas attacks, unquestionably perpetrated against the Kurds by the Iraqi armed forces. According to Hiltermann, the literature on the Iran-Iraq war reflects a number of allegations of chemical weapons use by Iran, but these are "marred by a lack of specificity as to time and place, and the failure to provide any sort of evidence". He calls these allegations "mere assertions" and adds: "no persuasive evidence of the claim that Iran was the primary culprit was ever presented".


So Miltiades, I rest my case! Saddam was a murderer and an invention of the West. As always, you lose your credibility by believing what you read with The Sun. :lol: :lol: Eliko is right. You are so gullible! :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

Why should a successful businessman be reading the gutter press may I ask .
As for Iraq needing a ruthless dictator may I disagree , what Iraq need is democracy and the people of Iraq deserve a great deal more than what you suggest they should have.



Excuse me Miltiades. are you going to give it a rest? I have some Lahmacun for lunch. If you are too busy with Bafidis you will miss out.

I will be there around 1.00pm :lol: If you are worked up too much, you will get bad indigestion, so take it easy. I will bring some settlers just in case. (indigestion tablets, not Turkish settlers) :lol:
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Postby Paphitis » Mon Aug 04, 2008 12:46 pm

Here is a picture of the rich man that is Miltiades! :lol:


Image

:lol:
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Postby Paphitis » Mon Aug 04, 2008 12:50 pm

Miltiades, if you are so rich, you would not be advertising the fact.

Also, it is not a question of what the Iraqi's deserve. Ofcourse they deserve more than Saddam. They also deserve much more than what they have now. Even Saddam was better than what they have today.

Have a good day
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Postby GorillaGal » Mon Aug 04, 2008 12:55 pm

Paphitis wrote:Here is a picture of the rich man that is Miltiades! :lol:


Image

:lol:


miltiades said he was successful, not rich.

geeze, some people................ :?
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Postby denizaksulu » Mon Aug 04, 2008 1:00 pm

Paphitis wrote:Here is a picture of the rich man that is Miltiades! :lol:


Image

:lol:



That is him alright. A hard working man trying to eke out a living, by whatever means. Its a survivors world. I am sure the man depicted is on his business feeding his family. Thats what we all do. Its how you look at life Bafidis. :lol:
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Postby Paphitis » Mon Aug 04, 2008 1:04 pm

denizaksulu wrote:
Paphitis wrote:Here is a picture of the rich man that is Miltiades! :lol:


Image

:lol:



That is him alright. A hard working man trying to eke out a living, by whatever means. Its a survivors world. I am sure the man depicted is on his business feeding his family. Thats what we all do. Its how you look at life Bafidis. :lol:


We all earn a living, and many of us are doing just fine. But we do not need to show off. His statements are typicle of a liar.
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Postby denizaksulu » Mon Aug 04, 2008 1:13 pm

Paphitis wrote:
denizaksulu wrote:
Paphitis wrote:Here is a picture of the rich man that is Miltiades! :lol:


Image

:lol:



That is him alright. A hard working man trying to eke out a living, by whatever means. Its a survivors world. I am sure the man depicted is on his business feeding his family. Thats what we all do. Its how you look at life Bafidis. :lol:


We all earn a living, and many of us are doing just fine. But we do not need to show off. His statements are typicle of a liar.


A strong statement to make unless you know him personally. I am off to see him now, and I will not even mention USA politics with him, because I am much bigger than his 6 ft 6" frame. It would be unfair!

Regards :lol:
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