Cyprus-Forum.com

[Nikitas]

Iceman has given you all a picture what BBF will be like, and it is a positive view, more positive than the one in my head anyway. You live in the north, under an administratin you choose, with TC officials, policemen, rules and laws, but you can own property and work anywhere on the island.

The assumption that GCs will flood the north is nonsense. People tend to gravitate to where the business is, and that would tend to show that Nicosia, Limassol and Famagusta will be the main areas of financial activity, real activity and not tourism. It is then probable that TCs will be more likely to move south than the other way round. I love Karpasia, but frankly I do not see much chance of anyone starting a business there unless he wants to be service staff for tourists.

The question has been put as to what would have been the fate of TCs had the coupists prevailed in 1974. Well, most likely something like the fate of Turks on Rhodos and Kos, and frankly it is a much better fate than that of TCs today. The Turkish communities on both islands are doing very well, they prosper along with the rest of the people and are increasing in number. I have been to both islands and seen them. And no, I am not advocating a takeover of Cyprus by Greece for that reason, I mention these places to show that the situation today is not what was adevertised by Denktash and his lot. There is a saying in Greece: "the one you stuck me is not the one you showed me" and it seems to fit the situation. It is ironic that Enosis with Greece would have meant the disappearance of GCs while Taksim is leading to the disappearance of TCs. How long will it take for everyone to realise that the plans of the motherlands are not, and never have been, Cypriot centered?

[halil]

You will be living under GC's because you will be a minority in both the south and eventually in the north, how long do you think it will take before GC's outnumber TC's in the north should a solution be found??
Within a matter of a few years the north will become dominated by GC's, as a result another referendum will be held to dissolve the BBF and bring both under one central government run by GC's.

Every country have their majority and minority. It is not these factors alone that determine how a country is run in modern times and specially being a EU member. We are not talking about many other Muslim countries, including Turkey, where the minority is persecuted directly or indirectly. True Democracies are not perfect but the alternatives are even worse, so what are the options left other than re create another Racist and Undemocratic Constitution of 1960's, just like the Annan Plan was, which were the basis for our problems in the first place in Cyprus. A functioning True Democracy for all Cypriots that is Fair and Just is what we need to push for, or else, all other options are nothing but divisive measures that are intended to prevent True Democracy to flourish and all a while, waiting for the next troubles to begin.

Kikapu ,
The way you are thinking about majority or minority rights are nothing to do in Cyprus . Remember old ROC was formed by partnership of the Bigger partners of the republic .63 problems started by 13 points arguments .
you are excepting from TC's to go back from the old ROC constitution .you are making mistake .

On the contrary Halil, it is you and all those who supported the Annan Plan in the past and anything that is not a True Federation and True Democracy during these settlement talks are the one's who would want to go back to the 1960 Constitution, which was Racist, Undemocratic and violation of Human Rights. It is these conditions that lead to the problems in Cyprus, not the 13 points. The 13 points were the by product of the unworkable constitution. Show me anywhere in any developed country, where they use the same constitution that we had in Cyprus. Most certainly not in Europe, and we don't want to either.

If you think like that there will be no solution in Cyprus .

what we are supporting now is well knowing Kikapu . Agreement will be between 2 communities to live at Bi-zonal states . ROC was formed by 2 communities , i am not interesting if there is a any country in the world .
i want workable system that i can not have any more 63 or 74 .
eşeği gazığa sağlam bağlaycayık . we will tide the donkey properly ... yoksa o eşek boşanır ..... otherwise donkey gets away .................

[Agios Ionas]

Big Al
What you fail to see is that THERE WILL BE NO TC's LEFT IN THE VERY NEAR FUTURE...not even minority!!!

Listen to iceman you should, the truth he speaks.

On a more serious note. You can't dismiss him as easily as you dismiss the GC's when they tell you this.

You're not supposed to be living under the GC's, you're supposed to live with the GC's. A bunch Cypriots of Greek and Turkish ancestry living, working and ruling side by side.

The Turks must leave, period. But if Turkey acquire her EU membership her citizens are entitled to come back to Cyprus and live there if they wish so. No Turkish soldiers though... unless they're part of an EU joint force protecting the island against any foreign threats. An EU joint force that has to be approved by the Cypriot government chosen by its people.

[Jerry]

It makes a change to follow a reasoned well argued debate on this forum instead of all the name calling and abuse that Cyprus Problem threads degenerate into.

Turkish Cypriots should demand that the EU takes responsibility for the law and order in Cyprus for an interim period. Cyprus never was and never will be a true democracy while foreign troops have the right to intervene on the island.

I sincerely hope there is an a just settlement soon but I have my doubts. The talks in September will fail, a referendum in the north will agree to even closer ties with Turkey and the ROC will haggle for years with Turkey as to how much land will be returned in exchange for support for EU membership. The issue will be compounded by the desire of a significant number of TCs wishing to move south rather than become "Turkish", this will further complicate the land problem. Turkish membership of the EU will mean that citizens of that country can settle in the south, something that they may find more acceptable if there is already a TC population there. Add to this scenario the huge number of Europeans who wish to live in the sun and in 50 years time and both Cypriot communities will be minorities on the island. God help Cyprus!

[Tim Drayton]

Add to this scenario the huge number of Europeans who wish to live in the sun and in 50 years time and both Cypriot communities will be minorities on the island. God help Cyprus!

Well, I am one of these people. Sorry.

There are a great many fundamental demographic changes taking place in Cyprus just now. I recall watching the first CyBC News in English following new year 2007. There was a report on the first baby to be born in (unoccupied) Cyprus in the new year. It seems that two babies had dead heated for first place. One had a Greek Cypriot father and a Russian mother, the other had a Greek Cypriot father and a Sri Lankan mother. I can't help feeling that this was highly symbolic of the way Cyprus is evolving. Like it or not, the island is becoming more multicultural by the day.

The day may well come when the number of permanent British residents exceeds the number of Turkish Cypriots living on the island. If that happens, expect Brits to start questioning why Turkish Cypriots are a party to the Cyprus problem, while they aren't.

Whether the current round of negotiations will prove the final chance to settle the Cyprus problem remains to be seen, but I can't help feeling that this may be the final set of negotiations in which Greek Cypriots and Turkish Cypriots are seen to be the only ethnic groups involved.

[Jerry]

Add to this scenario the huge number of Europeans who wish to live in the sun and in 50 years time and both Cypriot communities will be minorities on the island. God help Cyprus!

Well, I am one of these people. Sorry.

There are a great many fundamental demographic changes taking place in Cyprus just now. I recall watching the first CyBC News in English following new year 2007. There was a report on the first baby to be born in (unoccupied) Cyprus in the new year. It seems that two babies had dead heated for first place. One had a Greek Cypriot father and a Russian mother, the other had a Greek Cypriot father and a Sri Lankan mother. I can't help feeling that this was highly symbolic of the way Cyprus is evolving. Like it or not, the island is becoming more multicultural by the day.

The day may well come when the number of permanent British residents exceeds the number of Turkish Cypriots living on the island. If that happens, expect Brits to start questioning why Turkish Cypriots are a party to the Cyprus problem, while they aren't.

Whether the current round of negotiations will prove the final chance to settle the Cyprus problem remains to be seen, but I can't help feeling that this may be the final set of negotiations in which Greek Cypriots and Turkish Cypriots are seen to be the only ethnic groups involved.

No need to apologise Tim, I don't have a problem with Brits or anyone else moving to the island but I do feel that the Cyprus problem will be compounded by a rapid change in the ethnic mix of the country.

[Tim Drayton]

[quote="Jerry]No need to apologise Tim, I don't have a problem with Brits or anyone else moving to the island but I do feel that the Cyprus problem will be compounded by a rapid change in the ethnic mix of the country.[/quote]

The apology was very much tongue in cheek.

However, I was trying to raise a serious point. I think the Cyprus problem SHOULD be solved by Turkish Cypriots and Greek Cypriots alone, but if they don't hurry up they could well find that there are other parties clamouring for a say.

[Nikitas]

I think we are confusing a modern multicultural society with a bicommunal federation. The USA is a good example of a multi cultural federal society. There you can be whatever you want, but the moment you decide to become a citizen then you swear allegiance to the nation and its flag and their treason laws are draconian. The US takes itself seriously both as a nation state as well as a multicultural society.

In Cyprus we start by undermining the nation state. The difference is obvious.

[Tim Drayton]

I think we are confusing a modern multicultural society with a bicommunal federation. The USA is a good example of a multi cultural federal society. There you can be whatever you want, but the moment you decide to become a citizen then you swear allegiance to the nation and its flag and their treason laws are draconian. The US takes itself seriously both as a nation state as well as a multicultural society.

In Cyprus we start by undermining the nation state. The difference is obvious.

Yes, but this particular bicommunal federation does not yet exist; it is a proposal. Make it a reality, and other ethnic groups settling on the island will have to accept it.