Cyprus-Forum.com

[halil]

Big Al ,
do you have any idea what we have put on the table ?
before not seeing them how you concluded that we will be minorty ?

nothing is agreed yet . Talat and his teams knows , what the TC's wants and how they can be protected that we can not have 63's or 74's again .

Also TC's are not blind that they can throw themself into fire . our mouths are burned from the milk .... when we are eating the Yogurt we are first blowing on to yogurt to make sure it is cooled down .

[Big Al]

Big Al ,
do you have any idea what we have put on the table ?
before not seeing them how you concluded that we will be minorty ?

nothing is agreed yet . Talat and his teams knows , what the TC's wants and how they can be protected that we can not have 63's or 74's again .

Also TC's are not blind that they can throw themself into fire . our mouths are burned from the milk .... when we are eating the Yogurt we are first blowing on to yogurt to make sure it is cooled down .

Halil, i dont need to know what is put on the table, we will be a minority based purely on numbers. any sort of reunification will involve the ability of GC's to move into the north. Please correct me if im wrong but i dont think i am.

[Kikapu]

Big Al ,
do you have any idea what we have put on the table ?
before not seeing them how you concluded that we will be minorty ?

nothing is agreed yet . Talat and his teams knows , what the TC's wants and how they can be protected that we can not have 63's or 74's again .

Also TC's are not blind that they can throw themself into fire . our mouths are burned from the milk .... when we are eating the Yogurt we are first blowing on to yogurt to make sure it is cooled down .

when we are eating the Yogurt we are first blowing on to yogurt to make sure it is cooled down

Halil, you are confusing the hot milk that you are blowing on before the yogurt is made.!!

I did not know that your eyesight was that bad, honestly.??

[halil]

You will be living under GC's because you will be a minority in both the south and eventually in the north, how long do you think it will take before GC's outnumber TC's in the north should a solution be found??
Within a matter of a few years the north will become dominated by GC's, as a result another referendum will be held to dissolve the BBF and bring both under one central government run by GC's.

Every country have their majority and minority. It is not these factors alone that determine how a country is run in modern times and specially being a EU member. We are not talking about many other Muslim countries, including Turkey, where the minority is persecuted directly or indirectly. True Democracies are not perfect but the alternatives are even worse, so what are the options left other than re create another Racist and Undemocratic Constitution of 1960's, just like the Annan Plan was, which were the basis for our problems in the first place in Cyprus. A functioning True Democracy for all Cypriots that is Fair and Just is what we need to push for, or else, all other options are nothing but divisive measures that are intended to prevent True Democracy to flourish and all a while, waiting for the next troubles to begin.

Kikapu ,
The way you are thinking about majority or minority rights are nothing to do in Cyprus . Remember old ROC was formed by partnership of the Bigger partners of the republic .63 problems started by 13 points arguments .
you are excepting from TC's to go back from the old ROC constitution .you are making mistake .

[halil]

Big Al ,
do you have any idea what we have put on the table ?
before not seeing them how you concluded that we will be minorty ?

nothing is agreed yet . Talat and his teams knows , what the TC's wants and how they can be protected that we can not have 63's or 74's again .

Also TC's are not blind that they can throw themself into fire . our mouths are burned from the milk .... when we are eating the Yogurt we are first blowing on to yogurt to make sure it is cooled down .

Halil, i dont need to know what is put on the table, we will be a minority based purely on numbers. any sort of reunification will involve the ability of GC's to move into the north. Please correct me if im wrong but i dont think i am.

I am not with you on this one Bigal .

unification will be at central goverment only . What we are demanding was on the papers today read it again . what GC's wants and What TC's wants .There is a lots of differences .

[Kikapu]

Big Al ,
do you have any idea what we have put on the table ?
before not seeing them how you concluded that we will be minorty ?

nothing is agreed yet . Talat and his teams knows , what the TC's wants and how they can be protected that we can not have 63's or 74's again .

Also TC's are not blind that they can throw themself into fire . our mouths are burned from the milk .... when we are eating the Yogurt we are first blowing on to yogurt to make sure it is cooled down .

Halil, i dont need to know what is put on the table, we will be a minority based purely on numbers. any sort of reunification will involve the ability of GC's to move into the north. Please correct me if im wrong but i dont think i am.

The north was 80% GC's before they were evicted, so why would you be surprised if they wanted to move back to their homes in their own country. Just what does peace and freedom of movement means to you anyway.?? The TC's will have the same option to move to their homes all over Cyprus. However, the truth is, the GC's will not move to the north in great numbers, but having two states does not mean one is pure "Turkish" and the other is pure "Greek". Over time, it is important that the TC's and the GC's will mix in large numbers, so that no one starts feeling comfortable with the idea, that north belongs to the TC's and the south to the GC's, because after a while, we will have problems again, when one side or the other will push for independence by claiming their respective states, which in reality, is not the case, under True Federation that is. Annan Plan or anything having a Confederation flavour to any settlement now, only increases problems in the future.

[halil]

Big Al ,
do you have any idea what we have put on the table ?
before not seeing them how you concluded that we will be minorty ?

nothing is agreed yet . Talat and his teams knows , what the TC's wants and how they can be protected that we can not have 63's or 74's again .

Also TC's are not blind that they can throw themself into fire . our mouths are burned from the milk .... when we are eating the Yogurt we are first blowing on to yogurt to make sure it is cooled down .

Halil, i dont need to know what is put on the table, we will be a minority based purely on numbers. any sort of reunification will involve the ability of GC's to move into the north. Please correct me if im wrong but i dont think i am.

I am not with you on this one Bigal .

unification will be at central goverment only . What we are demanding was on the papers today read it again . what GC's wants and What TC's wants .There is a lots of differences .

bigal i hope you can read Turkish ,
Uzlaşılan konular
1) Merkezî hükümetin yetkileri; dış ilişkiler; AB konuları; vatandaşlık; Merkez Bankası; uluslararası denizcilik; havacılık; kıta sahanlığı; karasuları; doğal kaynaklar. Oluşturucu devletlerin üçüncü devletlerle uluslararası anlaşma yapma yetkileri olmayacak, yetkileri yalnızca kültürel ve ticari alanlarla sınırlı kalacak.
2) Yargıda, yargı bağımsızlığının tesis edilmesi konusunda uzlaşıldı. Kıbrıs Rum tarafı yabancı yargıçların katılımının engellenmesini istiyor. Kıbrıslı Türkler bunu; kararların Kıbrıs Rum oy çoğunluğuna bağlı olmayacağı şartıyla istiyor.
3) Yine KKTC’nin daha önce yaptığı faaliyetlerle ilgili konuda da görüş birliği sağlandı. Kapsamlı çözüme zıt olan faaliyetleri ile vatandaşlık, muhaceret, mülkiyet ve kapsamlı çözümle düzenlenen diğer konulardaki faaliyetleri geçerli olmayacak. Yani; ne yerleşiklerin ‘vatandaşlığı’ ne de Kıbrıslı Rumlara ait mülklere verilen ‘tapular’ geçerli olmayacak.
İhtilaflı konular

1) En önemli görüş ayrılığı yürütme erkindeki yetkilerin paylaşımındadır. Kıbrıs Rum tarafı; başkanı, başkan yardımcısı ve başkanlık konseyi olan bir başkanlık sistemi önerdi. başkan ve başkan yardımcısı doğrudan halk tarafından, ortak seçim pusulasıyla ve iki toplumun seçmenlerinin oranına sadık kalınarak seçilecek. yani; başkan veya başkan yardımcısı seçilebilmesi için öteki toplumdan bir minimum oy gerekmeyecek.
2) Kıbrıs Türk tarafı bu öneriyi reddetti ve başkanlık konseyi, başkan ve başkan yardımcısının; konseyin oy birliğiyle aldığı kararları dahi görmezden gelebilecek çok güçlü yetkilere sahip olacak meclis tarafından seçilmesini önerdi.
3) Yine, Konsey’de; BM’nin zaman-zaman sunduğu önerilerde öngörülen oranların çok üzerinde olan 3/2 ve 5/4 şeklinde dönüşümlü başkanlık istiyorlar. Yasama erkinde Kıbrıs Türk tarafı % 25 yerine % 30 katılım oranı ve alt meclis’te de özel çoğunluk talep ediyor.
4) Kıbrıslı Türkler, yetkileri düzeyinde eyaletlerinin egemenliğinde; yani iç egemenlikte ısrar ediyorlar ancak oluşturucu eyaletlerin toprak bütünlüğünün Kıbrıs Rum tarafınca reddedilmesine görüş belirtmiş değiller.
5) Federasyon polisinde bütün rütbelerde eşitlik talep ediyorlar.
(Devam edecek)

http://www.kibrisligazetesi.net/kibrisl ... e_id=14387

[Kikapu]

You will be living under GC's because you will be a minority in both the south and eventually in the north, how long do you think it will take before GC's outnumber TC's in the north should a solution be found??
Within a matter of a few years the north will become dominated by GC's, as a result another referendum will be held to dissolve the BBF and bring both under one central government run by GC's.

Every country have their majority and minority. It is not these factors alone that determine how a country is run in modern times and specially being a EU member. We are not talking about many other Muslim countries, including Turkey, where the minority is persecuted directly or indirectly. True Democracies are not perfect but the alternatives are even worse, so what are the options left other than re create another Racist and Undemocratic Constitution of 1960's, just like the Annan Plan was, which were the basis for our problems in the first place in Cyprus. A functioning True Democracy for all Cypriots that is Fair and Just is what we need to push for, or else, all other options are nothing but divisive measures that are intended to prevent True Democracy to flourish and all a while, waiting for the next troubles to begin.

Kikapu ,
The way you are thinking about majority or minority rights are nothing to do in Cyprus . Remember old ROC was formed by partnership of the Bigger partners of the republic .63 problems started by 13 points arguments .
you are excepting from TC's to go back from the old ROC constitution .you are making mistake .

On the contrary Halil, it is you and all those who supported the Annan Plan in the past and anything that is not a True Federation and True Democracy during these settlement talks are the one's who would want to go back to the 1960 Constitution, which was Racist, Undemocratic and violation of Human Rights. It is these conditions that lead to the problems in Cyprus, not the 13 points. The 13 points were the by product of the unworkable constitution. Show me anywhere in any developed country, where they use the same constitution that we had in Cyprus. Most certainly not in Europe, and we don't want to either.

[Nikitas]

Iceman said : "Today,TC's are a minority in the north and their numbers are droping at an alarming rate.
At no stage in their history the TC's were subject to such an extinction..not even in the days of EOKA & Enosis"

And Bananiot comments: we fought an empire to get run over by Greece, which convenientely leaves out the fact that we fought Greece and fought hard to resist a takeover in 1974. There are TCs in this forum who assert that more GCs died in that conflict than the subsequent invasion.

Iceman has a point, which everyone else seems to be missing regarding the need to act fast before TCs are totally gone from Cyprus.

TCs must realise that GCs will accept solutions which are unpalatable, as long as the "other side" is TC. The same solutions are totally UNACCEPTABLE if the other side is mainland Turks.

This is elementary psychology and it is surprising that people on this forum find it hard to understand. It is hard to accept loss of property, political equality, the rotatiting presidency, as long as those getting what are seen as benefits are fellow Cypriots. The moment the idea that total foreigners will have those benefits, especially the rotating presidency, there is a visceral reaction.

Then we have this incomprehensible "humanitarian" preoccupation with settlers when thousands of Cypriots left the island and should be encouraged to return. It seems that both sides want to forget the expat TCs but will go to great expense and trouble (literally) to accomodate the settlers. TCs must speak out loudly against this trend. GCs cannot do it for them for obvious reasons.

As for the GC overrunning the whole island in the event of a solution etc, that is nonsense of the highest order spouted by people who know nothing of the changes that GC society has gone through since 1974. But if you still insist on safeguards then ask for an international monitoring body, which will include Greek and Turkish observers to protect your interests, seeking a permanent military Turkish presence again brings on a visceral reaction. It is like asking sheep to trust a butcher to protect them, that is how it seems to the other side.

In the end, if TCs want to survive on the island they must mature politically as GCs have done.

[halil]

Big Al ,
do you have any idea what we have put on the table ?
before not seeing them how you concluded that we will be minorty ?

nothing is agreed yet . Talat and his teams knows , what the TC's wants and how they can be protected that we can not have 63's or 74's again .

Also TC's are not blind that they can throw themself into fire . our mouths are burned from the milk .... when we are eating the Yogurt we are first blowing on to yogurt to make sure it is cooled down .

Halil, i dont need to know what is put on the table, we will be a minority based purely on numbers. any sort of reunification will involve the ability of GC's to move into the north. Please correct me if im wrong but i dont think i am.

I am not with you on this one Bigal .

unification will be at central goverment only . What we are demanding was on the papers today read it again . what GC's wants and What TC's wants .There is a lots of differences .

bigal i hope you can read Turkish ,
Uzlaşılan konular
1) Merkezî hükümetin yetkileri; dış ilişkiler; AB konuları; vatandaşlık; Merkez Bankası; uluslararası denizcilik; havacılık; kıta sahanlığı; karasuları; doğal kaynaklar. Oluşturucu devletlerin üçüncü devletlerle uluslararası anlaşma yapma yetkileri olmayacak, yetkileri yalnızca kültürel ve ticari alanlarla sınırlı kalacak.
2) Yargıda, yargı bağımsızlığının tesis edilmesi konusunda uzlaşıldı. Kıbrıs Rum tarafı yabancı yargıçların katılımının engellenmesini istiyor. Kıbrıslı Türkler bunu; kararların Kıbrıs Rum oy çoğunluğuna bağlı olmayacağı şartıyla istiyor.
3) Yine KKTC’nin daha önce yaptığı faaliyetlerle ilgili konuda da görüş birliği sağlandı. Kapsamlı çözüme zıt olan faaliyetleri ile vatandaşlık, muhaceret, mülkiyet ve kapsamlı çözümle düzenlenen diğer konulardaki faaliyetleri geçerli olmayacak. Yani; ne yerleşiklerin ‘vatandaşlığı’ ne de Kıbrıslı Rumlara ait mülklere verilen ‘tapular’ geçerli olmayacak.
İhtilaflı konular

1) En önemli görüş ayrılığı yürütme erkindeki yetkilerin paylaşımındadır. Kıbrıs Rum tarafı; başkanı, başkan yardımcısı ve başkanlık konseyi olan bir başkanlık sistemi önerdi. başkan ve başkan yardımcısı doğrudan halk tarafından, ortak seçim pusulasıyla ve iki toplumun seçmenlerinin oranına sadık kalınarak seçilecek. yani; başkan veya başkan yardımcısı seçilebilmesi için öteki toplumdan bir minimum oy gerekmeyecek.
2) Kıbrıs Türk tarafı bu öneriyi reddetti ve başkanlık konseyi, başkan ve başkan yardımcısının; konseyin oy birliğiyle aldığı kararları dahi görmezden gelebilecek çok güçlü yetkilere sahip olacak meclis tarafından seçilmesini önerdi.
3) Yine, Konsey’de; BM’nin zaman-zaman sunduğu önerilerde öngörülen oranların çok üzerinde olan 3/2 ve 5/4 şeklinde dönüşümlü başkanlık istiyorlar. Yasama erkinde Kıbrıs Türk tarafı % 25 yerine % 30 katılım oranı ve alt meclis’te de özel çoğunluk talep ediyor.
4) Kıbrıslı Türkler, yetkileri düzeyinde eyaletlerinin egemenliğinde; yani iç egemenlikte ısrar ediyorlar ancak oluşturucu eyaletlerin toprak bütünlüğünün Kıbrıs Rum tarafınca reddedilmesine görüş belirtmiş değiller.
5) Federasyon polisinde bütün rütbelerde eşitlik talep ediyorlar.
(Devam edecek)

http://www.kibrisligazetesi.net/kibrisl ... e_id=14387

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http://www.yeniduzengazetesi.com/templa ... 5&zoneid=3