Cyprus-Forum.com

[Nikitas]

"For some reason no one was intrigued by the granting of TRNC nationality in one day to Semih Tufan Gulutay, the man who assassinated Akin Birtal, president of the Human Rights Association. Gulutay's name is mentioned in the indictment against the generals who are being held in connection with the Ergenekon case".

The above is from Sener Levent's column. And his question is valid.Is it possible for such a wide ranging conspiracy to occur among mostly ex military chaps and not touch Cyprus?

And how was "citizenship" granted to a known murderer in one day? How do things work in the north anyhow? Is this what Talat meant when he said "we are the true Europeans" ?

[Tim Drayton]

According to the respected columnist İsmet Berkan who writes in the Radikal newspaper and has written a great deal about Ergenekon, Cyprus has played quite an important role in this plot. He claims that when Denktash flew to the Hague and immediately announced that he had come to reject the Annan Plan, he was flying in the face of instructions from Prime-Minister Erdoğan not to reject the plan out of hand, and was instead following orders from this shadowy group. According to Berkan, Ergenekon's main aim was to sabotage Turkey's EU accession prospects, and Cyprus was just a pawn to this end. I am just conveying Berkan's view, so if you don't like the message don't shoot the messenger!

It puts a whole new gloss on Denktash's famous comment: "Thank God the Greek Cypriots voted no".

[Nikitas]

Tim,

Often I get the impression that in today's Turkey we are reliving the process that led to the Greek dictatorship of 1967. There too, there were the plots and counterplots in the military, the games among politicians, an intense phase of introversion, apparent economic prosperity and growth which proved later to be imaginary. And above all there was a plot against Cyprus. The ingredients are the same, the spices are more eastern this time.

Last night on RIKSAT there was a discussion on the settler problem. A TC speaker, Dr Hadzi***** i forget the rest of his name, I should have kept a note, spoke of a tide of settlers and estimated their numbers at 750 000. He also cited figures that TCs now number less than 55 000.

Even more interesting was EuroDeputy Matsis account of his meetings with TC politicians who in private are raising the alarm about their planned and methodical extinction by Turkey. I wonder what part this has in the overall scheme of things in Turkey. And how all this would sit with the EU.

[Rebel.Without.A.Pause]

Often I get the impression that in today's Turkey we are reliving the process that led to the Greek dictatorship of 1967. There too, there were the plots and counterplots in the military, the games among politicians, an intense phase of introversion, apparent economic prosperity and growth which proved later to be imaginary. And above all there was a plot against Cyprus. The ingredients are the same, the spices are more eastern this time.

Do you think the Turkish people eill overthrow the Turkish military control like the Greek people did with the Greek control in 1974? I dont think so. You can see how fanatical and brainwashed most Turks are about their armed forces. They would prefer fascist rule because of their pigheaded ideologies.

[Nikitas]

Rebel,

To be frank, it was not the Greek people that overthrew the dicators. When the Cypriots resisted the coup, and the invasion started, a lone general of the Greek army, general Davos, chief of the third army corps gave them an ultimatum, get lost or I am coming to Athens. His being the only army corps in fighting trim at the time, the threat was real. So the junta fell, collapsing from within.

The only Greeks who truly resisted the junta were the Cypriots. The only state operatives who honored their oath to their country were the Cypriots when they refused to lay down their arms and fought the coupists.

Let us hope that the TCs will not have to go through the same fate as us. On the other hand they have been going through something similar but far more gradual, their numbers have steadily diminished since Turkey took over the north. Another few years there will not be any TCs left.

[Tim Drayton]

Often I get the impression that in today's Turkey we are reliving the process that led to the Greek dictatorship of 1967. There too, there were the plots and counterplots in the military, the games among politicians, an intense phase of introversion, apparent economic prosperity and growth which proved later to be imaginary. And above all there was a plot against Cyprus. The ingredients are the same, the spices are more eastern this time.

Do you think the Turkish people eill overthrow the Turkish military control like the Greek people did with the Greek control in 1974? I dont think so. You can see how fanatical and brainwashed most Turks are about their armed forces. They would prefer fascist rule because of their pigheaded ideologies.

The public prosecutor has filed charges against 86 people in the Ergenekon case; 48 of them are in custody awaiting trial, including two retired top-ranking army officers. This is truly an uprecedented event. I think the days of military intervention in politics are numbered in Turkey.

[Nikitas]

It aint over till the fat lady sings. We will see how this will play out. As far as the army accepting another role, their status and involvement in Turkish reality show that they will not take this sitting down.

[Rebel.Without.A.Pause]

Rebel,

To be frank, it was not the Greek people that overthrew the dicators. When the Cypriots resisted the coup, and the invasion started, a lone general of the Greek army, general Davos, chief of the third army corps gave them an ultimatum, get lost or I am coming to Athens. His being the only army corps in fighting trim at the time, the threat was real. So the junta fell, collapsing from within.

The only Greeks who truly resisted the junta were the Cypriots. The only state operatives who honored their oath to their country were the Cypriots when they refused to lay down their arms and fought the coupists.

Let us hope that the TCs will not have to go through the same fate as us. On the other hand they have been going through something similar but far more gradual, their numbers have steadily diminished since Turkey took over the north. Another few years there will not be any TCs left.

Nikitas, thanks for your info. So where do the students (11th November) come into this? Also, would you agree that many people of Greece were against the Junta??

[Tim Drayton]

It aint over till the fat lady sings. We will see how this will play out. As far as the army accepting another role, their status and involvement in Turkish reality show that they will not take this sitting down.

I agree. Judicial processes in Turkey work well, as long as they are permitted to function, but are very slow. It could well be three years before we see finalised judgements. There are reputedly four million pages of documentary evidence for the court to wade through. You must admit, though, that in a country which, depending on how you define the term "coup", has seen 2-4 of them since World War II, for a coup to be thwarted by purely judicial means will be no mean feat, if this indeed is the final outcome. This would set quite a clear precedent and I do not think the generals would ever be able to meddle in politics again.

[Nikitas]

"Nikitas, thanks for your info. So where do the students (11th November) come into this? Also, would you agree that many people of Greece were against the Junta??"

You are referring, I think, to November 17, which was in 1973 when the students, first at the Law School and later at the Polytechnic called on people to rebel. The student uprising caused a major inner tremor in the junta, but since the general public did not rise against them, the junta was not threatened. In fact after November 17 1973 it became even worse, as Ioannidis the psycho took over. He is still in jail, the rest of them have either died or been released, and are still unrepentent. It is infuriating to hear some of these people on TV interviews assert they "saved the nation". I want to drag them to Famagusta and rub their faces in the ground and have them tell me how they saved my nation. Assholes!

The one myster Ioannidis can solve is to say plainly who he was referring to when he shouted "the bastards have betrayed me" when hearing of the invasion in 1974.