Cyprus-Forum.com

[halil]

I felt again to answer Pirates by Hasan Hastürer İnterview .

Daily news paper Kibris writer interview translated to English .
at first page you can find Translated one and at seconed page original one which is published at Kibris .Seconed part will be later on .

Hasan Hasturer

In a true sense we never had a ‘Unity of Objective’.

[These are my] responses to the questions asked by ‘Alithia’ concerning the events of 20 July 1974.

What do the events of 20th July 1974 mean to the Turkish Cypriots.

The response to this is both easy and difficult.

In spite of the ‘Ceremonies’, it is worth studying the 20th July Jubilations.

What was lived until 1974 had seriously damaged the trust Turkish Cypriots had for the Greek Cypriots. Until 1974, there was present – among Turkish Cypriots fear of the Greek Cypriots.. 20th July [the events of] was the ending of this fear and was the day when Turkish Cypriots gained a ‘stronger hand’ against the Greek Cypriots.

Apart from not having a joint political aim [on the contrary] very differing political aims had rendered military power important.
By the arrival of the Turkish Army in Cyprus on the 20th July they gained the military strength they could never have achieved by normal means.

Common language and understanding is one of the ‘Cyprus Problems’. We call the 20th July a ‘peace operation’. They call it ‘invasion’.
We call it TRNC/KKTC, they call it ‘illegal state’. We could provide more examples. Because of these differing expressions there are ‘risks’ involved when making ‘joint statements’.

Bearing this in mind, as the author of these lines I am taking the risk of responding to Costa Constantinou of the ‘Alithia’ [newspaper].in English.

[He] e-mailed the questions.
He stated that my response could be in Turkish. I did e-mail my responses back to him in Turkish. My thoughts were published in a ‘full page’. Today, I am trying to get a Turkish translation of what was printed in Greek.
My intentions are to share with readers these statements and presentations. This way I am able to correct errors – which may have crept in due to errors in translation.
The case may be the full text may not be published. What might be left out may be important to what I am conveying to the readers as a whole. Publication of the full text creates a ‘wholeness’.

Today and tomorrow I will respond to Alithia questions and share them with you in two parts.

Before I get to the Q and A’s I must make a point.
I use the expressions in the questions as they are. So I do not make the same mistakes they do. eg: If I did not use the word ‘invasion’, they should not use it either.


Here is part I of the Questions and Answers:
Question

20th July 1974 is a tragic day for the Greek Cypriots .We are in pain for the loss of our homes and those dear to us. O the other side we have the Turkish Cypriots, who together with the Turkish Officials are celebrating with ‘parades’. So with these in mind what does today mean to the Turkish Cypriot people?

Answer

It is necessary to have a common aim in a true sense in order to share sorrow and share joy.
Even in a worse case scenario, as a person who has always wished to ‘live together’, I have looked back at the past have seen no ‘common aim’ in the true sense.

The existence of the Turkish Cypriots goes back to the days of the conquest of Cyprus in 1571. For 437 years Greek Cypriots and Turkish Cypriots have formed the two ‘main’ groups on this island. For nearly 500 years on, what have we done [together] in order to become the owners and governors of the Island. Or have we been able to put together our political views and struggled to form a common goal? In my view the only serious joint effort was the act of joint opposition to the Catholic Venetian administration during siege of Cyprus.

Apart from examples of good neighbourliness there has been no common aim. The Lefka miners strike is one of the very few exemptions.

Under British rule Greek Cypriots began the fight for union with Greece, therefore beginning the Enosis campaign. Were the Turkish Cypriots to join in with this struggle for Enosis? EOKA was not the fight for independence it was a fight for Enosis.

In those days the leadership did not provide a healthy political aim to the Turkish Cypriot community. So the Turkish Cypriots joined in with the British in the fight against EOKA. 1955 – 1960 brought Turkish and Greek Cypriots face to face in a serious way. In spite of the signatures of Makarios and Dr Kucuk on the agreements that gave life to Cyprus Republic the administration of both communities were full of sworn elements of TMT and EOKA who were none believers in ‘living together’.

The constitutional Cyprus Republic only lived for 3 years.

It is not important from my point of view to apportion blame for the events of December 1963. The fact that the Turkish Cypriot Civil Servants left their duties and settled in narrow ghettos (enclaves) and began the formation of a nucleus of governing system could have been prevented by the numerically superior Greek Cypriots. The foundations of the separation and partition were set on that day.

From 1963 to 1974 it was as if the Greek Cypriot community never bothered to ask the question of ‘whatever is going to happen to this Cyprus problem’.

I am from Kucuk Kaimakli/ Omorphita. In 1963 under the leadership of Nicos Sampson, EOKA attacked our village. As refugees we went to Hamit Mandrez. Our homes burnt and destroyed. Many died, many went missing. In those difficult times we were left to our fate.

In your question you state that the tragedy began on 20 July 1974. But you must not forget that without the events of 15 July 1974 there would have been no 20 July 1974.

I have never accepted that any revenge for pain, sadness, tears can be comparable. But a large number of Turkish Cypriots see 1974 as revenge for 1963. I will re-iterate I am not one with this view.

From the way we lived after the events of 1963 we know very well what our Greek Cypriot brothers have gone through.

A great majority of Turkish Cypriots will till the day a solutions is found and reunification is achieved, will continue to treat 20 July as a day of celebration.


I wish by joint agreements these hurtful commemorative celebrations would be postponed/cancelled.

Question
What do TC’s think of the presence of the Turkish Army in the North of the Island are they ‘peace keepers’ or are they ‘occupying forces’ in their mother country.

Answer
The Turkish Cypriots do not see the presence of the Turkish Army in Cyprus as the same way as the Greek Cypriots do. Turkey came to the Island under the powers bestowed upon as a guarantor power.

The results created by the Turkish Army has pleased the TC population in the wider
sense but the presence of the Turkish Army has on occasions caused problems to the civil and democratic way of life. These problematic days are fewer and far between in comparison to the Denktas years. The Turkish Army did not come to Cyprus as the grandchildren of the Ottoman Turks who had given Cyprus to the British in 1878. What bought the Turkish Army was the coup on 15 July under the powers of the guarantor agreement.

With those rights their presence on the Island continues.

At this point I would like to share a few thoughts with you 98% of Turkish Cypriots or even more are keen on the continuation of guarantor powers.

Why?

If after the 15 July coup, Turkey did not intervene Cyprus would have been part of Greece and most likely that the coupist’s who were slaughtering their own people would eventually turn on the Turkish Cypriots. Because of this it was good thing that there were these guarantees.

The guarantees brought disaster to Greek Cypriots.

Greece, one of the guarantors powers organised the coup. The other guarantor, Turkey, intervened militarily. The third guarantor power England, just watched. If I was a Greek Cypriot and looked at the above scenario, I too would appose any guarantors.

here is the seconed part of the Hasan Hastürer interview .
Hasan Hasturer2

Enmity Cannot Last Forever

My response to Alithias’ questions regarding the [events of] 20 July 1974

Imagine an independent Republic with official holidays and two [different states] with there own official holidays.

Whatever their location , other countries flags, side by side with that of the Independent Republic even putting the Republics own flag in the shade.

Even worse is that it has been 48 years hence and it’s a country which has no ‘Independent’ Anthem. How would you perceive and recognise such a country.

Well, the Republic of Cyprus is such a country.

If we are to create future partnership, we have to make a break with many taboos.

Specifically are our [Greek Cypriot] brothers ready for this.


I pointed it out yesterday… A common language and common definition is one of the Cyprus problems. We call the 20th July a ‘Peace Operation’, the Greek Cypriots call it ‘Invasion’. We call it KKTC/ TRNC, the GCs call it ‘Illegal State’. Other examples will only prolong….

With these different definitions, there is a risk in giving joint statements….

I had given you the first part of my responses to Alithia yesterday. Now I will present the second part.


QUESTION: As a community, are you in favour of a bi-communal federal state or are you happy as you currently are?

ANSWER: the vast majority of Turkish Cypriots do not see the current situation as satisfactory nor sustainable.

A Cyprus with bizonal bi-communal and political equality is what is sincerely wished for. The 65% ‘YES’ vote for the Annan Plan demonstrates this.

As long as Turkish and Greek Cypriots are unable to live under one umbrella, the isle of Cyprus will be under the risk of [continuing] pain, blood and tears.

In order to govern Cyprus together first of all we must have the ability to respect each other.

The Greek Cypriots have ‘defined’ [passed judgment on] Turkish Cypriots before they even knew them.
Re you in
The Greek Cypriots never saw us as equals. Have no doubt, this perception [of theirs] – of us who have arrived on the scene from the depths of history, with no ‘personality/identity’ has a very important role in our stance.

Those who spoke in our name have ‘feasted’ [celebrated] for years and the Greek Cypriot leadership has exploited this situation.

To my Greek Cypriot friends of International renown, I have openly said this:

“In order for you to treat Turkish Cypriots as human beings, you waited to be ‘slapped’ by Turkey. Until 1974, did you, never mind treating them as equal, did you ever take them seriously? In December 1963, The Republic of Cyprus lost its constitutional identity. Turkish Cypriots were crushed under great hardship for years. Now, there is in Cyprus, many bi-communal projects and new incentives/ initiatives for closer relations, peace and a solution. Is there any example of a single event like these ever occurring between the years 1963-1974?”
Even in the most congenial circumstances the Turkish Cypriots have been perceived as one grade lower (sub-human?).

On top of this we have the 15th July Greek Coup, which in turn has led to the Turkish intervention and as a result this has prevented the Greek Cypriots from reaching healthy decisions because of emotional difficulties.

Some Greek Cypriot friends have openly declared that”15th July has been a great mistake. [to their cause]. ‘We did with our own hands, and now we pay for it’.
If there is a lack of faith for peace, lack of a solution and hesitancy in running the island together,( among Turkish and Greek Cypriots) the reason is the above.

I heard from a Turkish Cypriot, who only knew politics superficially say, “ the Greek Cypriots do not want to rule this island together with us”.

I will reiterate, the current situation is not sustainable. But for a permanent solution we must put our strengths and intentions together.

QUESTION: As a Turkish Cypriot, do you believe that we will tolerate the current Status Quo, or do you believe that we will achieve a better solution by negotiation?

ANSWER: Even though since 1974 till the present day we have arrived at the present day without any serious conflict, till a permanent agreement is reached, we have a ‘cease fire’.

The rule of a ‘cease fire’ is like holding a primed hand grenade.

It is because of this that the present situation is untenable.

We have no other choice other than having a negotiated settlement.

The lack of time has never worked for supporting the peace efforts together with a settlement.

The current Status Quo has beneficiaries on both sides of the divide. These beneficiaries are against any kind of solution.

To accept the current situation (status quo) is to give bonus to ‘injustices’.

In order to build up a future together, we must learn constructive lessons from our past.

On both sides of the divide, politics have been developed from fear and threats. It is necessary not to forget that animosity can never be everlasting and forever.

For all that has passed [in our lives] I have never seen the Greek Cypriots as my enemies. I have never read any poetry that encouraged animosity, neither have I applauded those that have recited them.

Even when defending our communal interests, I have never neglected to ‘think like a Greek Cypriot. (in order to see their point of view). Just because I have done this, I have always understood them better[than most].

Our bad luck is that, we have never been able to have political leaders and political parties who would offer us a dual community policy.

If the Cyprus problem is not rescued from the ‘grasp’ of fanatical nationalism, reaching a solution will be difficult.

QUESTION:. Do the Turkish Cypriot youth have any objective views with the young (patriotic?) Greek Cypriots? What are your children’s view of 20th July 1974?


ANSWER: Turkish Cypriot youth have no ill feeling towards their brothers in the south. I can assure you of this. The only thing is that they are not in a position to get together to work for our future.

They see themselves as the young partners of a common nation.

Even if our religion, language, national roots are different, if they get together on a Cypriotness foundation, these youngsters will amalgamate even more.

My children see 20th July 1974, as an important Historical event .More than the political issues and results they are more interested in the military aspects.
QUESTION: Will we be able to succeed in creating a new future without the mother nations, Greece and Turkey?

ANSWER: Cyprus is our ‘Mother Country’. When we say this, Rauf Denktash and people who think like him, react and say, ”our Mother Country is Turkey”. Then we add, “Cyprus is our Mother Country” and “Turkey is our ‘ancestral’ country”.
If we could succeed in living together - in harmony, without any quarrel, we would not need any protection from Turkey, Greece or any other country.

To create a ‘nation’ of Cypriots is an Utopian ideal. For this, we need to raise the value of Cypriot ness, and if we all embrace this ideal , we will be able to find a solution and common future without the need of [foreign] intervention and protection.

The aim of The Constitution of 1960 was to keep the Cypriots under the wings of Turkey and Greece.

Imagine an independent Republic that has official (national?) holidays different from two (different) nations [holidays].

Where ever their location, flags of two different nations, flying side by side with that Independent Republic; even putting the Republics flag in the shade.

How can you perceive, how can you recognise a nation that for the last 48 years (since the creation of the Republic) has not its own Independent Anthem?.

Well, the Republic of Cyprus is such a nation.

If we are going to create a joint future together, we must be prepared to brake a few taboo’s. Specifically, are our Greek Cypriot brothers prepared for this?.

QUESTION: Will there be a permanent solution in 2008?

ANSWER: For a permanent solution to take place in Cyprus in 2008, we need the touch of the worlds greatest ‘magical power’.

Turkish Theatre has a famous play; its called ‘Hurmus of the seven husbands’…..Cyprus is in a more difficult situation than Hurmus is. Every country that has attempted to help find a solution to Aphrodite’s island Cyprus, has become one of the ‘husbands of Cyprus’. If Cyprus was merely a simple family consisting of a husband and a wife, our job would have been simpler.

If and when the Turkish and Greek Cypriots come to an agreement, the first question people will ask is, “will Turkey and Greece” sign the bottom line?.

Add to these, Great Britain, USA and other nations interests, then the difficulties of a solution for Cyprus will become more obvious.

Without giving up, if we can learn positive lessons from what has happened, if we can put our rights forward (?), if not in 2008, we can go to a referendum in 2009.

[halil]

[denizaksulu]

Even lowly Greece in 1919, invaded Turkey and just prior to that managed what no other country in the world had achieved before. Through being on the winning side in the 1st world war and the Balkan wars that preceded it, Greece more or less quadrupled its area.

I'll think you will find it was the Ottoman Empire that Greek forces entered into, not Turkey, as it was not founded as a state yet.

Greece 'quadrupled its area' as the aress seeded to Greece were Greek lands, lived upon by Greek by people going back thousands of years, which were ruled by foreign regimes. I wouldnt put this in the same bracket as Turkey invading Cyprus, would you?

Yu will be asking for Australia next, considering the largest Greek diaspora there.

[Rebel.Without.A.Pause]

Now, there is in Cyprus, many bi-communal projects and new incentives/ initiatives for closer relations, peace and a solution. Is there any example of a single event like these ever occurring between the years 1963-1974?”

Did the Turkish Cypriots WANT these in the famous 1963-1974 period????

Halil, what makes you think that what you posted is infact reality??

[Rebel.Without.A.Pause]

Yu will be asking for Australia next, considering the largest Greek diaspora there.

lol...and you probably wish Greece was still under the glorious Ottoman rule. It seems you are pro-colonialism like most Turks Deniz.

[repulsewarrior]

...interesting thread.

[Nikitas]

Bananiot said:

"After that partition will be unavoidable but of course this does not seem to scare some people because they put their financial interests above the good of the country."

I have NO financial interest in Cyprus whatsoever. So no one can accuse my of financially induced bias. I cannot see how partition would be any worse than BBF where the TC side was in fact mostly legalised mainland Turks and there was the prospect of a non Cypriot assuming the revolving presidency. Already the TCs are a minority in the north. Unless the BBF solution contains some drastic definition of who can become a voter, the TCs will be outvoted in any election.

Having to choose between this situation and partition is a non brainer really no matter how sincere and progressive Talat might be.

I am surprised that you, Bananiot, cannot see the danger of a BBF being used as a ploy to control the whole island. I think that it is not a possibility but a certainty and that is why I keep stressing the need for a very clear territorial arrangment, so when the time comes we will not have to fight over a small piece of land, ie Dhekelia, with a very well prepared adversary, ie Turkey while we will be legally and by our own initiative totally defenceless.

[Nikitas]

"Through being on the winning side in the 1st world war and the Balkan wars that preceded it, Greece more or less quadrupled its area. "

Now that was a gem, you gotta admit!

Do not forget the Arabs, they more than quadrupled their area after the decay and fall of the Ottomans. Was that a bad thing too? Not to mention the Bulgarians, Romanians, Serbs and a whole bunch of other ingrates who had the nerve to revolt and ask for independence!

The only fault I see in all this is that we Cypriots were too easy, allowing ourselves to be invaded and ruled by whatever asshole happened to be passing the neighborhood. In short we went the Athenian-Byzantine way, and forgot the lessons of Sparta, and we are doing that now.

It is fashionable for Greek intellectuals to put down Sparta. Forgetting two salient features of that culture, firstly they treated women as equals, secondly they refused to put soldiers under non Spartan command, therefore they did not follow Alexander in his "world conquest", in which by the way he took the wrong turn. If only he had turned westwards.....

[denizaksulu]

Yu will be asking for Australia next, considering the largest Greek diaspora there.

lol...and you probably wish Greece was still under the glorious Ottoman rule. It seems you are pro-colonialism like most Turks Deniz.

Not really. Europe has been fragmented enough. Where did you get the idea that I am pro-colonial? Thats news to me indeed.


I believe Cyprus belongs to all Cypriots, regardsless of religion. My fight is against anyone who wishes to take my Cypriotness away from me.

[Bananiot]

I do not share your opinion Nikitas that the territory issue is the most important. I believe that the constitutional issue is the most important, that is the way the new state of Cyprus will be set up politically. All the issues which are considered to be thorny, including the territory issue, can be resolved with an honest give and take approach. Our people, the two communities that is, will co-govern a common country and there is nothing wrong with this. As a result, both communities will get to realise real soon that solving issues is to the interest of both communities.